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View Full Version : No more selling on CL for me!!!



Gregory Stahl
02-12-2009, 3:39 PM
Sold my Laguna Platinum Slot Mortiser that is virtually brand new to a guy for a mere $675 and now he has called me several times for support--driving me crazy!

I don't think he knows much about it, and thinks it would do something different, and now wants his money back???:eek: I could have sold it to another individual that said he would take it for the same price.

Also, before he took delivery, he called and talked to Laguna to make certain this is the machine he wanted, and I was nice enough to hold it for him instead of selling it to the other interested party.

Should I have given him his money back? I feel guilty having said no, but am trying to help him resell it by calling the other interested party for him.

Rob Russell
02-12-2009, 3:48 PM
IMO, there is no reason to refund his money. I'd also tell him, once you've put him in touch with the other guy who was interested (if that's possible), that you're out of the loop and not to bother you again.

Clint Schlosser
02-12-2009, 4:03 PM
Yeah, Second on no refunds, and he has absolutely no right to keep calling and harassing you. I would just put his number in my phone book as "Do Not Answer"

In the future if a person on craigslist is too much of a pain you are under no obligation to sell to them if they persist in being a pain. I go for whoever shows up with the money first. Even if its not always the "fair" thing to do. People are out to get their best deal and so should you.

Neal Clayton
02-12-2009, 4:10 PM
tell him if he wants to shop go to a store.

Alex Shanku
02-12-2009, 4:20 PM
I would NOT give him his money back.

Loren Hedahl
02-12-2009, 4:47 PM
Just tell him you already spent it.

Now I know why a lot of e-bay and CL ads state that the owner doesn't know much about the item because he's selling it for a little old lady down the street that is in a nursing home -- or something to that effect.

Just good business in a CYA way.

Mac McQuinn
02-12-2009, 4:49 PM
If there's no issues with the Mortiser, I would politely say it's yours. He should have evaluated his purchase before buying. If he doesn't want it tell him to put it on C/L himself, he might make a few bucks more than he paid....


Mac

Matt Meiser
02-12-2009, 4:50 PM
I agree. Tell the guy sorry he isn't happy, but unfortunately there's nothing else you can do to help him so please stop calling.

I can't imagine going back to someone and asking for my money back.

Clint, I'm basically with you, but I tell buyers I'll hold the item for the first person who says they are definitely coming out, until the time they say they are going to get here. After that, I'll offer it to the next interested party. I know I wouldn't risk driving any distance if the seller wasn't willing to hold something until I arrived.

Douglas Brummett
02-12-2009, 4:50 PM
Craigslist is a great resource for offloading used stuff and not having to pay fees to do so. More often than not the people I deal with are great. But among the buyers are also total tools. These guys try to treat you as a retail establishment. They assume you are going to warranty the item if it breaks. Returns, yep you can do that right. I have actually had one guy who saw that I had a pickup be so bold as to expect me to throw in delivery and drop my price by about 20%.

In your specific instance I would tell the guy to take a hike. Cash and carry, the deal is done. You are an independent seller, not a business. That should be implied, but some people need to be informed. Also, I have had people pull the ignorance card when they new darn well what they were doing. This guy sounds the type. Give him a clear and concise end to your dealings if he contacts you again.

Rob Diz
02-12-2009, 4:59 PM
Cash and carry baby.

Tell him politely that if he has any quesitons he can call Laguna, and if he wants his money back, he can sell it on CL. Tell him you held the machine for him, so you know that there is at least one more person who would be interested in buying that machine.

Otherwise tell him he can hold for your warranty dept, then put the phone next to your DC (while on) and walk away.

Dwain Lambrigger
02-12-2009, 5:31 PM
Don't give up on Craigslist because you are dealing with an idiot. If he calls, tell him to contact Laguna. Don't give him his money back. The transaction is closed.

Good luck.

Brian Backner
02-12-2009, 5:54 PM
I had a similar situation on a private sale, but not on CL.

What I eventually discovered is that the guy needed to use the tool, a drum sander in this case, for one big job. He apparently busted his &$% to get it done in three days and then wanted to return it to me for a full refund.

So he basically wanted a free rental.

I blew him off, though it took multiple phone calls over several weeks. Now I draw up a very detailed sales contract that clearly spells out that when the deal is done, it's DONE.

Brian

Dave Lehnert
02-12-2009, 6:12 PM
Just tell him he now knows why you sold it. ;)

Tell him yes! you will buy it back but at 75% off what he gave you for it.

Jim Kountz
02-12-2009, 6:17 PM
Just tell him he now knows why you sold it. ;)

Tell him yes! you will buy it back but at 75% off what he gave you for it.

Hey this may not be such a silly thing really. Dont stores charge a restocking or handling fee for some returns?? Why not!! Tell him you will be happy to take it back minus a restocking/handling fee of 25%. That will either get him off your back or make you some cash!!

Gregory Stahl
02-12-2009, 6:36 PM
Thanks all! I over-reacted, but I hate when woodworking creates stress--this is what I do to relax!

Iíve had several good deals on CL and met a wonderful couple in Chicago. I guess with these positive experiences I was due for a not so pleasant one.

I'm off to the shop! Haven't been able to get much time in there the past few months.

Gregory Stahl
02-12-2009, 6:42 PM
I draw up a very detailed sales contract that clearly spells out that when the deal is done, it's DONE.

Brian


I am adopting your policy!

Harley Reasons
02-12-2009, 7:21 PM
Tell him that it came with your "World Famous" 5 - 50 guarantee that your more than willing to honor.

Five (5) seconds or Fifty (50) feet out of your driveway, which ever occurs first. Oops, your warranty has expired. Too Bad.

Now that's my CL warranty/guarantee. Buyer's remorse, not the CL seller's responsibility. Done Deal.

Brian Backner
02-12-2009, 7:22 PM
While I could forward you a copy of my generic bill of sale, it may or may not be correct for your state. I would suggest going to the Nolo website - they have a huge site all devoted to self-help legal stuff. They also sell many books - either off their website or via the big chain book stores.

http://www.nolo.com/

Good luck,

Brian

Mark Carlson
02-12-2009, 7:22 PM
I have a bunch of stuff in my shop I'd like to get rid of but don't want to sell for this reason. I also don't want strangers in my shop. Maybe I'm just paranoid. Someone on SMC that was a regular poster would be another story.

~mark

Bob Luciano
02-12-2009, 7:47 PM
I sell lots of stuff and it always is in the front yard or on the front porch. No one gets to see anything more than what they are here for. Never had a time when the person buying didn't know it was a done deal once I had their cash. Polite to a point but if I get a feeling they are going to be problematic I have a question I ask. "Do you want it or not? Once it is in your vehicle you own it. Time to decide is now". May sound harsh but being polite has burned up time with people I have no interest in spending time with far too many times.

Prashun Patel
02-12-2009, 7:58 PM
If you didn't misrepresent the item, then it's his problem. The more you engage him now, the harder it'll be for you to turn him away.
What does he think you are? Home Depot?

Paul Johnstone
02-12-2009, 8:14 PM
I have a bunch of stuff in my shop I'd like to get rid of but don't want to sell for this reason. I also don't want strangers in my shop. Maybe I'm just paranoid. Someone on SMC that was a regular poster would be another story.

~mark

Everything I sell on Criag's list gets carried up to the garage before it is listed. I'm not letting anyone scope out my house either, although the majority of people I've dealt with are nice normal people. Just one PITA.

Unbelievable about that story about the guy that wanted to "rent" a drum sander for 3 days. The amount of gall some scammers have.

David Keller NC
02-12-2009, 8:45 PM
Yeah, well one thing to remember is that Craig's List is, to be impolitic about it, for bottom-feeders. That's OK, there's a place for that, but most normal people know that "yard sale rules apply", which is you buy it AS IS in exchange for getting it for next to nothing.

This, by the way, is why I have a boiler-plate simple bill of sale on my computer (about 3 sentences - the KISS principle). It's rather amazing how well this works - the type of individual you're dealing with will often hesitate if presented with something to sign. Those that are OK to deal with don't. It's a great litmus test.

Ken Fitzgerald
02-12-2009, 8:55 PM
Yeah, well one thing to remember is that Craig's List is, to be impolitic about it, for bottom-feeders.

David,

Frankly I think you are way out of line making a statement like that. There are a lot of Creekers that have sold and bought from Craig's List. Bottom feeders? I think not.

In today's world, there are a lot of people who have a totally different outlook on life than what most of us consider normal.

Example: My wife wanted a new carpet cleaner....steam cleaner. The local Home Depot is the only place in town that carries them in stock. I was shopping for one there and some guy offered me a "money-saving" idea. Buy it.....use it.....return it. It won't cost you anything. You wonder why the prices in retail stores are high when folks with that kind of a dishonest attitude are around?

Mike Goetzke
02-12-2009, 8:56 PM
Don't know if you still have it, but, contact the other potential buyer and see if he is still interested. If so forward his info to the first guy. Other than that it's a done deal.

Mike

Bob Luciano
02-12-2009, 9:41 PM
You can do what I do answer the phone in Spanish works for me
in laws only call the wife on her cell now definately a win for me

Bruce Wrenn
02-12-2009, 9:54 PM
Cash and carry baby.



Otherwise tell him he can hold for your warranty dept, then put the phone next to your DC (while on) and walk away.Send him to Helen Wait, your warranty specialist. Tell him " You are going to have to go to Helen Wait." Or use the 30 / 30 warranty. Thirty seconds, or thirty feet, which ever occurs first.

Andrew Joiner
02-12-2009, 11:15 PM
Sold my Laguna Platinum Slot Mortiser that is virtually brand new to a guy for a mere $675

Why sell it? New it's about $1,200 with shipping. Did it perform as you expected?

Bob Slater
02-12-2009, 11:28 PM
After dragging home my General 490 bandsaw that I bought on Kijiji yesterday for $560, I have realized that it is in fantastic condition and I will be passing it on to my kids. I love CL and Kijiji. Where else are you supposed to find quality tools from the Lost Era.? I usually sell my tires on CL, as it is a great way to get into new tires 10,000 miles sooner. My three wheel bandsaw is going up on CL next week. I cannot imagine expecting what this purchaser wants from you. My thought process does not work that way. HE Bought It. He owns it.

Craig McDaniel
02-13-2009, 12:11 AM
Hmmm...I think I'd offer to buy it back at a discount to what he paid for it based on the inconvenience he's caused you and then sell it again...for your original price or better.

Here's my best Craigslist story...

A "nice enough" guy came over to look at a Ridgid 3650 table saw that I was selling. Asks all sorts of questions about how to set it up, what types of blades to use, how to improve dust collection...the works...then I had to make some test cuts for him so that he could see how it ran (I wouldn't let him do the cuts).

After about 45 minutes, he asks me if I'd be interested in swapping for his fence. I wasn't and asked why he'd want it...yep...he already had a 3650 and broke the plastic lever on his fence off...nice...as I was walking him down the driveway, he asked if I would make him a deal on the ZCI's for it since whoever was going to buy my saw wouldn't miss them...


I've sold a fair amount of stuff through Craigslist and have had to deal with a few flakes, but for the most part, I still think its one of the most effective outlets for the occaisional seller.

Mike Heidrick
02-13-2009, 1:09 AM
$675 - ouch!! CL is no warrantys implied or provided - no returns no exchanges.

Your machine was like new! tell him to call laguna and congrats on a steal of a horiz mortiser.

What is it not doing for him??

Tell him to save up for a multi router!

Gregory Stahl
02-13-2009, 1:52 AM
Why sell it? New it's about $1,200 with shipping. Did it perform as you expected?

It performed fine, but it cannot compare to the speed of the Multi-Router. I can now cut mortises in a few seconds each, and repeat it very fast on multiple pieces with precise accuracy. To get this accuracy with the Laguna, I would have had to build a table similiar to what Mike Heidrick built for his (search Laguna Mortiser). Also, I have a pile of spiral router bits, but not any additional hardware for the Laguna, so I would have needed to invest in this as well. In the end, I would have had two machines set-up the same to do the same thing.

Also note, I had no idea I would end up getting a Multi-Router. I refused to pay what they were asking for them new as I thought they were over priced. Now that I use one, I wouldn't be without it. I got mine, which was like new for only $1500 and it included a router!

Best, Greg

Jason White
02-13-2009, 8:42 AM
I'd never heard of Jijiji before. Thanks for the tip!

JW


After dragging home my General 490 bandsaw that I bought on Kijiji yesterday for $560, I have realized that it is in fantastic condition and I will be passing it on to my kids. I love CL and Kijiji. Where else are you supposed to find quality tools from the Lost Era.? I usually sell my tires on CL, as it is a great way to get into new tires 10,000 miles sooner. My three wheel bandsaw is going up on CL next week. I cannot imagine expecting what this purchaser wants from you. My thought process does not work that way. HE Bought It. He owns it.

Jason White
02-13-2009, 8:43 AM
Let him resell it himself if he doesn't want it.

JW


Sold my Laguna Platinum Slot Mortiser that is virtually brand new to a guy for a mere $675 and now he has called me several times for support--driving me crazy!

I don't think he knows much about it, and thinks it would do something different, and now wants his money back???:eek: I could have sold it to another individual that said he would take it for the same price.

Also, before he took delivery, he called and talked to Laguna to make certain this is the machine he wanted, and I was nice enough to hold it for him instead of selling it to the other interested party.

Should I have given him his money back? I feel guilty having said no, but am trying to help him resell it by calling the other interested party for him.

Phil Thien
02-13-2009, 8:51 AM
I don't know how much time has passed since you've been paid. But a few years ago PayPal started to slowly adopt an anti-seller bias in resolving disputes. If he disputes the deal, it is possible that PayPal will try to collect the funds from you.

The reasoning is simple: PayPal is trying to match the dispute resolution of the Visa/MC member banks. This is primarily because payments via PayPal are often made via Visa/MC, and if a customer disputes a transaction to their CC company, said company will stand on PayPal's neck until the funds are coughed up. It just makes sense for PayPal to go after the payee for funds in the event that someone comes after PayPal for them.

I'd be very careful with your PayPal account. If it is linked to a bank account, I'd make sure there aren't enough funds for them (PayPal) to drain it. If you do conduct a future transaction with PayPal, don't be surprised if they hold the funds.

Just a FYI based on what I've read and heard of what is going on.

Eric DeSilva
02-13-2009, 9:38 AM
I didn't read it was a paypal transaction... As a seller, I would never use paypal for CL. Cash and carry only.

Al Willits
02-13-2009, 10:03 AM
Had pretty good luck with CL, but like everything else a bit of caution goes a long way, seems you've went well past reasonable dealing with him.
I'd maybe try the 25% restocking fee and offer that..if the unit is in the same shape it was when it left, if that don't work, tell him to call a attorney as your done with him.

My best/worst case was once selling a old truck, advertised a price and added the price was firm, guy called and tried over and over again to barter me down, each time I'd ask him if he read the "firm" part and he'd say ya, but will ya take.....I hung up on him.

btw thanks for your post Ken, my thoughts exactly.

Al

Neal Clayton
02-13-2009, 10:58 AM
David,

Frankly I think you are way out of line making a statement like that. There are a lot of Creekers that have sold and bought from Craig's List. Bottom feeders? I think not.

In today's world, there are a lot of people who have a totally different outlook on life than what most of us consider normal.

Example: My wife wanted a new carpet cleaner....steam cleaner. The local Home Depot is the only place in town that carries them in stock. I was shopping for one there and some guy offered me a "money-saving" idea. Buy it.....use it.....return it. It won't cost you anything. You wonder why the prices in retail stores are high when folks with that kind of a dishonest attitude are around?

you'd be amazed at how many people do that. i've actually seen people who contantly buy and return from their local specialty stores chastize others for buying stuff online and keeping it, as if not buying something from the local store hurt it more than using their stuff basically on loan for years at a time in 30 day intervals and never letting them make money on anything.

Chris Padilla
02-13-2009, 11:24 AM
you'd be amazed at how many people do that. i've actually seen people who contantly buy and return from their local specialty stores chastize others for buying stuff online and keeping it, as if not buying something from the local store hurt it more than using their stuff basically on loan for years at a time in 30 day intervals and never letting them make money on anything.

Blame the retail stores for this. If they truly wanted to do something about it, they would. People will always take advantage of a situation in which they can save money (or think they are saving money) and you can hardly blame them if the door is open to it.

Since the stores don't seem to do this, I have a feeling only a very small percentage of people actually do this and they take the hit in order to have a liberal return policy to keep the customers happy and shopping at their store.

David G Baker
02-13-2009, 11:33 AM
The Borgs keep track with their computer systems of the folks that return items and there is a limit to what they will tolerate before they cut the customers off.

Ken Fitzgerald
02-13-2009, 11:35 AM
Chris....let's see if I understand you correctly.:confused:

Someone buy's something....only to uses that something....then returns it for a full refund.....even though they never intended to own it..just use it......if they'd went to a rental center....they would have had to pay rent for it..........


AND it's the retailer's fault for having a liberal return policy?:eek:

But what about that super-duper-double-disc-widget tool you bought.....got it home and found out it didn't do what you thought it would and you want to return it?

I suggest it's the fault of the dishonest person who wanted a free rental and is temporarily buying it. In some cases, once something has been used it can't be legally sold as new...so the retailer takes a financial hit. Maybe a 20% restocking fee if the purchase has been used is in order!:confused:

Matt Meiser
02-13-2009, 2:09 PM
The retailer, if its a big one, probably isn't taking the hit, its probably their vendor.

I know someone who's wife was banned from returning stuff to Sears. Her method of shopping for clothes, etc was to buy, buy, buy, then decide after a few days what she really wanted and return the rest. After a while they got sick of it and cut her off. He was rather amused. :)

Chris Padilla
02-13-2009, 3:49 PM
Chris....let's see if I understand you correctly.:confused:

Someone buy's something....only to uses that something....then returns it for a full refund.....even though they never intended to own it..just use it......if they'd went to a rental center....they would have had to pay rent for it..........


AND it's the retailer's fault for having a liberal return policy?:eek:

But what about that super-duper-double-disc-widget tool you bought.....got it home and found out it didn't do what you thought it would and you want to return it?

I suggest it's the fault of the dishonest person who wanted a free rental and is temporarily buying it. In some cases, once something has been used it can't be legally sold as new...so the retailer takes a financial hit. Maybe a 20% restocking fee if the purchase has been used is in order!:confused:

Yes, it is the retailer's fault but it really isn't a question of blame. They have this "loophole" in their policy and if they want to do something about it, they most certainly can.

There will always be opportunists out there. It is human nature whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, or condone it or not. Yes, ultimately, I agree that the consumer doing this is being deceptive, dishonest, what-have-you, but as long as the opportunity exists, there are people who will take advantage of it.

I'm sure this kind of thing is likely priced into the sale of goods. I know for a fact that stores expect a certain percentage of items to be shoplifted and they adjust prices to compensate for the loss. This is probably no different but it is up to the store to cull out the abusers and cut them off. Certainly, the abusers aren't going to stop unless someone stops them....

Andrew Joiner
02-14-2009, 10:31 AM
It performed fine, but it cannot compare to the speed of the Multi-Router. I can now cut mortises in a few seconds each, and repeat it very fast on multiple pieces with precise accuracy.

Best, Greg

Is it mostly the low RPM on the Laguna that made it slower?

Harry Hagan
02-14-2009, 12:03 PM
you'd be amazed at how many people do that. i've actually seen people who contantly buy and return from their local specialty stores chastize others for buying stuff online and keeping it, as if not buying something from the local store hurt it more than using their stuff basically on loan for years at a time in 30 day intervals and never letting them make money on anything.

Shopping for a post hole digger at HD the other day I noticed one with dirt on the blades. A lot of dirt. Even though it's not unusual to see used/returned items on this store's shelves, it surprised me.

Knowing a used tool should be less expensive than a new tool, I went looking for a salesperson but declined his offer of a 10% discount when he said, "That should have been cleaned off." I negotiated a 50% discount after suggesting to a manager that HD's policy should be to tell the clown who returned the post hole digger, "You didn't borrow this tool, we sold it to you."

Thomas Bank
02-14-2009, 12:11 PM
I've had a couple doozies of encounters when trying to sell stuff. Heck, I even have some stories from trying to give things away for free - one even from setting something out for trash pickup and having someone come along to pick it up and give me hell because someone beat him to some parts for it!

I wouldn't give up on craigslist due to one experience. I've had similar experiences with eBay and even within my woodworking club and now do my best to make clear that all sales are final, no exceptions. At this point, I'd almost rather go through craigslist to a "stranger" than deal with a "friend" through the woodworking club who then knows where to find me every month...

AL Ursich
02-14-2009, 3:15 PM
SO his job is done that he needed the machine for and has gotten paid by the customer. Now he wants to return the machine for a refund... What is this HOME DEPOT..... Snicker.....

I see SO many used tools at our local Home Depot.... The Buy it, Use it, Return it for a Full Refund game..... Not Good.

AL:rolleyes:

Eric DeSilva
02-14-2009, 4:30 PM
You think that is bad? I bought some .22 loads for a concrete nail gun and started using a strip of 10... Well, it didn't fire after the 7th round, and after really carefully checking for mis-fires... I realized the last three rounds were already spent. I checked the rest of the box--same thing. Some *&&%(! bought 'em, used three rounds off each 10 round strip, put 'em back in the box upside down so you wouldn't notice on casual inspection, and returned 'em!

Try explaining that to Home Depot when you go and return them. I think the only reason they took 'em back was because it was too lame a story for anyone to actually make up.