Stropping with green rouge verses diamond paste

[Derek Cohen]

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/Stroppingwithgreenrougeversesdiamondpaste_html_527 3aa10.gif

I have just posted this article to my website.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/Stroppingwithgreenrougeversesdiamondpaste.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Terry Beadle]

Thanks for posting this interesting article/comparison.

I've noted some where in my study travels that D2 steel sharpens better when preped with a diamond stone. I some how also had the impression that cryo treated blades also sharpened crisper from diamond prep. In both cases though the authors suggested that the lapping of D2 or cryo treated blades didn't matter. This is a curious issue to me. So it begs the question: Does diamond paste do a better honing job than green bar on D2 or cryo blades?


What I've found works the best for me so far:

For what ever the blade dullnesss status is at time of needing work, I use water stones from 220 thru 10,000.

First step honing ( if required ):
I use rottenstone on a flat rock maple hardwood for fairly dull blades that don't need a stoning but need a two step honing.

Second step honing ( used mostly to restore sharpened edge ):
I use the green bar on flat rock maple hardwood scrap.

I use a buffer with green bar too but only for a polishing effect on primary bevels.

I've noted that green bar honing brightens the steel on Japanease chisels with much more depth of shine than the 10,000 grit water stone. Therefore , "I assumed" that I am getting a finer edge with the green bar honing than just relying on the water stone progression thru 10,000 grit.

PS. I hope those wild fires down there aren't getting to your digs!

[Brian Kent]

Derek, I appreciate the report. How much of a difference does the shiny or rough side of the leather make? Could you test the other side with diamond dust?

I just read the note from tools for working wood, which I'll include as a partial answer to my own question:

" One side of the strop is smooth - I use it plain - and the other side is a little rougher, which is perfect for holding and catching honing compound."

[george wilson]

Terry,I found ceramic stones sharpen D2 steel better than other stones. It is too hard a steel for softer stones. I get a razor edge with a diamond stone,then a black,then white Spyderco ceramic. Then,strop with Simichrome on leather. Look up my more complete descriptions of my sharpening system.

I think use of diamond paste strops is way overkill,myself. And,having precision metal cutting lathes and milling machines in the shop,I will use captured diamonds plated onto a stone,but do not want to regularly use diamond grit that may find its way where it will forever lap other surfaces.

[Derek Cohen]

A few replies ...

Terry wrote:
For what ever the blade dullnesss status is at time of needing work, I use water stones from 220 thru 10,000.

First step honing ( if required ):
I use rottenstone on a flat rock maple hardwood for fairly dull blades that don't need a stoning but need a two step honing.

Second step honing ( used mostly to restore sharpened edge ):
I use the green bar on flat rock maple hardwood scrap.

I use a buffer with green bar too but only for a polishing effect on primary bevels.

Obviously, when it comes to sharpening, ask 10 people what they do and you get 10 different answers. So my comment is not a criticism, only using your reply as a springboard.

I strop for two reasons, as I noted in the article: (1) to remove a wire edge (=plain leather), and (2) to re-new an edge between honings (= paste/rouge on leather). In the latter case (actually in both cases), it must be a quick process.

The rouge-on-leather (or diamond paste, etc) is the only medium needed to renew the edge. I do not wait for the edge to dull and thereby require a new primary or secondary bevel. The strop is used to maintain sharpness. The strop comes out frequently. Its ease and clean presentation means that there is little interruption to ongoing work.

Brian asked, How much of a difference does the shiny or rough side of the leather make?

Brian, it actually makes no difference. When I ran a finger over the rough side, it was now smooth. Some actually prefer using the rough side as the primary side. Joel at TFWW recommends that side. So my answer to you is that it does not matter.

George, I think that you are on the money when you mention captured diamonds. This is why I had not used diamond paste on leather till now. I used it on steel plates and I used it on hardwood. The ideal is that the paste is captured and loads up the subsurface - it essence becomes a diamond plate. I was sceptical whether this would work with leather. So far I can say that it appears to do so.

The other point you raise about diamond grit migrating is, I believe, unlikely if it is used in a paste format.

Of the two mediums I prefer the green rouge as it is less messy. That is there is less to clean up and less to intrude.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

It is in paste form,I understand. But,if you,or someone else inyour shop uses a contaminated rag....

I had a rotary diamond hone down at work-Accusharp. Among its wheels was a ceramic disc to spray,or drip diamond dust in a solution upon. The disc was only going 200 RPM,but still managed to sling the stuff on the counter,and me. Just too messy to suit me.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi George 200 rpm is fast. I am not surprised the spray went everyhwere! For comparison, a Tormek turns at 90 rpm. I believe that the Jet is able to speed up to about 150 rpm before it begin to sling water.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Douglas Brummett]

Hijack:
Derek, have you played around with any other paste grits? IIRC you picked up the paste from an ebay vendor. Sorry if I am confusing you with someone else if not.

I just purchased a selection of pastes to play around with in my shop in hopes of finding something to fill the gap between my Hard Black Arkansas and my green rouge on leather. I am thinking that 2.5u or 5u paste on hard maple would be a good gap closer.

[Danny Burns]

Skip the leather all together, as any downward pressure what-so-ever has a dubbing effect, small though it may be.

Just use green compound on a MDF strip.
No danger of dubbing.
Slightly cheaper.

Our ancestors were forced to come up with leather because they did not have MDF.
Seal your MDF with paraffin wax heated to liquid, and it will remain dimensionally stable for a long time.

[Derek Cohen]

Plain MDF (and hardwoods) does not work as well as leather for me. Mainly because the wax sits on the surface and does not "soak" in. Adding oil to MDF is likely to be a recipe for delamination.

Hard (emphasize Hard) horse butt leather has all the ideal properties.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Danny Burns]

Try some heat, works for me.

[george wilson]

Have you guys heard about honing on a clean bare aluminum plate? Some like it. It does have a thin,transparent coating of very fine aluminum oxide. I don't use it,some do.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi George

I do recall reading a few years back about someone's experience in this regard. They thought it the bees knees. For a while I kept an eye out for a suitable aluminium plate to try it out (ever curious ... :) ), but over time it faded into the distance.

Have you tried it?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

Derek,somehow the idea doesn't appeal to me,and the aluminum would be easy to nick. I don't know what the "grit" of the natural oxide coating would be. But,for those of us who like to experiment,it might be worth a try.