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Ray Rouleau
02-11-2009, 7:13 PM
Hello Creekers!
So here I am again stuck with yet again another Corel issue. I would like to replicate the attached on a mirror, but I'de like to engrave say the Blue parts, paint then do the red portions and paint. Any ideas on the best ways to proceed.
Rgds
Ray

Dave Johnson29
02-11-2009, 7:44 PM
So here I am again stuck with yet again another Corel issue. I would like to replicate the attached on a mirror, but I'de like to engrave say the Blue parts, paint then do the red portions and paint. Any ideas on the best ways to proceed.


I can't open the file in v10 to see, but if they are already colored, move the red to another layer then click "no print" send blue to the laser.Then swap No print for the layers and send red.

James Stokes
02-11-2009, 8:02 PM
The way Dave said is pretty much right if you are doing it on the back. That is how I would do it.

Frank Corker
02-11-2009, 9:19 PM
If I was doing it, ungroup all. Collect all the blue together and group. Then all the red together and group.
(Do the blue, first because the red is going to change colour and will not look as pure.)

I would suggest you use a spray can of both colours, make sure that they are compatible. However it will stink. You can use acylic paint and still get a good finish but no smell.
So click on the blue group and choose 'selected', engrave and paint. Let it dry. Then choose red and engrave and the paint that, make sure you allow a slightly more powerful engrave on the red because you have to go through the blue overspray as well.

Tim Bateson
02-12-2009, 12:02 AM
That is just how I done it. I separated the graphic and painted it orange, then engraved the rest of the photo and painted black.
I can't find the picture I took of it. This weekend I'll try to get the mirror from my son and take another picture. The attached picture is the original.
The cute kid is my grandson. :D

Tim Bateson
02-12-2009, 12:31 AM
Found the picture. This was a tricky one. Not only due to the multi-colors, but the mirror was very old and taken from their home during a renovation. It didn't laser very well. I offered to use a new mirror, but they wanted the nostalgia of something old reused in their home.

Tim Bateson
02-12-2009, 12:45 AM
Ray, That was an easy one.

Frank Corker
02-12-2009, 6:51 AM
Nice job Tim. Something that they will keep forever.

Ray Rouleau
02-12-2009, 4:20 PM
Thanks Tim, I see what you did, and your right that was pretty easy!

Mike DeRegnaucourt
02-12-2009, 9:53 PM
Found the picture. This was a tricky one. Not only due to the multi-colors, but the mirror was very old and taken from their home during a renovation. It didn't laser very well. I offered to use a new mirror, but they wanted the nostalgia of something old reused in their home.

Hi Tim!

Good job on the photo. I noticed that it looks like you might have forgotten to flip the picture prior to engraving on the back of the mirror. At least there was no text on the little guy's jersey, if so then it would've read backwards. :) I've done the same thing myself in the past and luckily it was a picture without any text so only someone with a sharp eye might have noticed the person's part in their hair would've looked like it had jumped to the other side of their head. Luckily it was for a relative. :)

Tim Bateson
02-12-2009, 11:08 PM
Hey Mike, good to hear from you. You caught me. I did forget to flip it. :p

Devon Jones
03-02-2009, 11:20 AM
what did you do to edit the picture? photograv? i have ver 2.11 and the materal you can select for it is limited are there settings you would recomend?

Tim Bateson
03-02-2009, 12:03 PM
I'm at my day-job, so I'm not sure what my settings were. I doubt I used PhotoGrav (not a fan).

I do recall that the settings for this mirror were more different then any other I've ever done. This was an old mirror that didn't laser well at all. I'm not sure, but I think some of the old mirrors have real metal in the back coating. A hammer and chisel would had been more efficient in this case.:p

Devon Jones
03-02-2009, 12:19 PM
yes i was using the gold method to do all of my photos. so i started to play with mirror and some times its dark enough to go through the backing and sometimes its not at all. then i also have the problem where i lose the depth or demintion of the photo with glass so im a bit stuck

Tim Bateson
03-02-2009, 12:51 PM
It takes practice. One hint that cost me. Practice on the exact same type of mirror as the finished work is to be on. Early on I got all of my settings just right on some scrap mirror. However each type of mirror is a bit different in the density of the backing. So when I went to do a large semi-expensive mirror, my practice settings were all wrong.

My suggestion is to get a sheet of mirror and do as many jobs as possible by cutting that same mirror down to size. When you need another sheet, take a small segment of the new sheet and again test your settings.

This is if you're doing detailed stuff like photos. Settings for text and graphics aren't near as sensitive.

Tim Bateson
03-02-2009, 12:55 PM
Devon, It may help if you can add your machine type and power to your signature line. Sometimes specific machines/power will produce different or more specific answers from those with the same equipment.

Devon Jones
03-02-2009, 4:12 PM
ok i just did it i still have had no luck i ran high power and high speed and cant break through the mirror its driving me nuts

Tim Bateson
03-02-2009, 4:21 PM
What do you mean by "lose the depth"?

Devon Jones
03-02-2009, 4:38 PM
ok maybe i used the wrong word ...................um............ well its a picture of my kids i used photograv on light cherry wood to engrave and use 50 speed and 75 power and i am on pass 3 and just now got through some of the mirror

Devon Jones
03-02-2009, 4:40 PM
and to answer the question maybe i meant its demintion or um i dont know it just looks horrible

Steve Clarkson
03-02-2009, 4:45 PM
and to answer the question maybe i meant its demintion or um i dont know it just looks horrible

Devon, I use a much higher power....I go around 100p and 50s.....sometimes it frosts the glass a bit, but if you use black paint, alot of times you can't tell.

I think there is also a difference between not breaking through the mirror backing (speed/power issue) and having it look horrible (pre-engraving photo processig issue).

Devon Jones
03-02-2009, 4:49 PM
so on the photo that i have seen posted on here that look great. (including yours) is everything is a different shade. meaning some gold ,some throught the mirror, some black and whatever else colors i see is that what you are coming up with. its not that i have to see it all in detail but the paint helps? did that make sense?

Steve Clarkson
03-02-2009, 5:27 PM
You must be either blind or lying about mine......but that's OK, I'll take any compliment I can get!

If you're talking about different colors......what you need to do is only send part of the picture to the laser.....ie. just the shirts......then paint that part, then engrave the next part.....ie. the faces. On a photo, that's going to be VERY complicated......you can do that with graphics (like a logo).....or text. You could first engrave text, then paint say blue, then engrave the border and paint say yellow, then engrave the photo and paint black.

And yes......sometimes it doesn't look good right out of the laser, but after you paint it, then the details really jump out.

Devon Jones
03-02-2009, 5:31 PM
thank you

so one last thing that im still (yes still) confused about. am i going through all of the backing just some is deeper into the glass part or does the backing also help with the picture?

Steve Clarkson
03-02-2009, 6:05 PM
The backing does help with the picture......but for the most part, you have to go all the way through the backing. If you go too hard though, you will frost the glass, and then it might not look as good. That's where you have to practice, like Tim said.

Devon Jones
03-02-2009, 6:17 PM
i just spray painted two of my test runs and while they still both look like trash maybe it will help understand how lame i am at doing this.


when it dries i will post prob tomorrow am............ cali time

Steve Clarkson
03-02-2009, 6:27 PM
Devon, like I said before......it might not be the laser speed/power that you're using, but rather how you are processing the picture (ie. in photograv) before you engrave. If you got through the backing OK, then work on the actual picture.

Maybe you should post your cdr with the picture after it has been run through photograv and someone with more experience can evaluate it for you.

Tim Bateson
03-02-2009, 9:24 PM
As a starting point on mirrors I use:

For Photos - 27/100/400
For Graphics - 30/100/400

With your 120w you may be looking at 100/1/400 :eek: Actually I wouldn't know where to start for your settings. I know there are some mathematicians here that could do the calculations.

To answer an earlier question - No I did not use PhotoGrav. The dithering functions of the Epilog driver are fantastic.

Devon Jones
03-03-2009, 10:36 AM
ok tim so then do you just resize your photo for the size of the mirror and run it? or do you change anythign on the photo at all? like gold method or turn to an 8bit gs? thank you everyone for the help

Dave Johnson29
03-03-2009, 12:28 PM
do you just resize your photo for the size of the mirror and run it? or do you change anythign on the photo at all? like gold method or turn to an 8bit gs? thank you everyone for the help


Devon,

The single biggest leap I made with this was after a suggestion by Dan Hintz and that was to match the dpi of the picture with that of the laser.

I load the pic into CorelPhoto and Crop to where I wanted it.

I Resample to 254DPI (my lasers default) and Save.

I Resample again to the Width and Height I want.

From here it depends on the pic a bit as I sometimes use the Gold method and sometimes trial and error until the pic looks about right.

If not using the Gold method, I Grayscale, maybe ligthen, darken or Unsharpen.

Then Mode to B&W and try all 3 algorithms, Jarvis, Stucki and Floyd to see which one gives the least amount of wide open white spaces and the most even distribution of dots.

My stuff is satrting to look acceptable thanks to all the suggestions from this group.

Tim Bateson
03-03-2009, 7:22 PM
I use an old copy of Photoshop CS - adjust to 8bit gray scale, adjust the picture by eye (this doesn't take too long as I use to be a photographer in a past life), I size and save as a .TIFF (my preferred image type), pull into Corel. I use Epilog's dithering, depending on the substrate.

Devon Jones
03-12-2009, 11:03 AM
ok so i came out with my first ok and visible copy of a mirror. i dont know if it looks all that great............. but i know what it is and i guess that is a start. any input from anyone on what i need to still do to get a better look would be great thanks. i know the pic is not that visible i found it harder to take the pic of the mirror then it was to make the mirror..

Steve Clarkson
03-12-2009, 11:29 AM
Devon.....I feel your pain when it comes to taking pictures of mirrors!

I did find that laying it flat on a table and angling your camera so that the reflection is of your ceiling works OK (unless you have water stains from a leaky roof!) or standing it up on the floor with your camera angled such that the reflection is of the floor (assuming you mopped/vacuumed first). Also, if you find an angle such that it doesn't LOOK like a mirror (and you WANT it to) then put a quarter or can of Campbell's soup (it worked for Andy Worhal) or some other generic item on or near it.

BTW.....yours looks great.

Duane Parcells
03-12-2009, 11:38 AM
Devon

I was reading your post on mirrors and am trying to figure out where you are having problems. Your laser shouldn't have any problems so I suspect it is the process you're using.
Resize your photo to the size of your mirror. This one is 20 by 36. Set your dpi of the photo to 300dpi. Don't forget to flip the image manually or in photograv. I use the cherry setting in photograv. The mirror quality is important, cheaper ones don't require near the power to engrave. My laser is 75 watts, I use 50 speed and 100 power. You know it is set right if the back of the mirror is stripped of all the gray paint and the black areas of your photo are cleared of both of tin and copper layers. Clean the back very well so the paint will stick. Paint with several coats of gloss black paint. Very important.... Do not resize or even crop the photo after you run it in photograv. I don't know about the gold method but I suspect it would be the same. The pattern in the mirrored areas is the texture on my ceiling. These are hard to photograph so it is much clearer in person.
duane

Devon Jones
03-12-2009, 11:57 AM
ya well at work we have the kinda celling that has black holes all over it and the walls are all different colors so it was a pain to take that pic.

as for the mirror i like it but think it can be touched up and would like to at some point be able to use it without photograv and tweek every pic differently as needed but i am happy.................. so far. i had a question about it too. if i were to make it a neg and engrave it could i then use color fill or something to paint colors to different parts to make it more like the movie poster? or is that just too much?

Frank Corker
03-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Devon, no offence is being intended here mate, so far all you have done is make a post and ask if you should be doing something else. Someone then posts a recommendation and you don't respond to what they put.

Why don't you tell us what method you decided to choose and what the result of it was. I sent you a pm at the beginning of this post about how you should just try the Epilog print driver on it's own. Tim Bateson has also said that he gets great results and used the Epilog driver, he even went as far to give speed and power.

How about you help all of us and explain in some detail so someone can give you advice and know if you took any notice of it.

Devon Jones
03-12-2009, 12:32 PM
no offence at all i have tried everything that has been sugested to me so far. i have cherry wood with sucki and jarvis and photograv and altho i liked the face detail that stucki gives me it is still too dark and if the image has too much detail in it that does not seem to show up for me. jarvis is ok but not as much detail as stucki but the background is a little more visible. photograv gives me the most detail as far as the entire pic goes. the settings i am using on mirror are cherry wood in photograv, 400dpi image (less then that looks bad and more then that engraves too much in my opinion) i run it at 50 speed and 100 power it only takes me one run to make it and comes out well as clean as you can see in the pic. it could be that i am using was to in detail images but who knows? i just figured i would try something harder then a pic of someone's face. if there are anymore suggestions i am open for them if i have seemed like i have not took your advice or listened to you in any way i have a lot going on sense i only get online at work and can play with this stuff at work along with the jobs i have already.

Frank Corker
03-12-2009, 1:00 PM
Did you try what I suggested originally. Without stucki/floyd or any of them, just normal using Epilogs drivers?

The image that you try to put onto mirror needs to be of a certain quality, the image that you put on the mirror of a movie poster looks like something dragged off the web. Get hold of a decent image, convert it to greyscale, make sure you have 300dpi and try engraving that at 300dpi. If it is too dark, again using Epilogs driver, choose the lighten which is right alongside Stucki/floyd etc.

If you convert your image into greyscale using Corel Draw, then you will be exactly where you started, with a 72dpi picture. Use photoshop of XnView to do your conversion. As a suggestion, you appear to have Photograv. There are some images stored in one of the folders which are 300 dpi, you might want to try one of those.

Devon Jones
03-12-2009, 1:04 PM
ok i will try it again, i got the image off of the watchmen site i think it was a 400 dpi pdf but i cant remember. and i hate corel when it comes to editing photos i only use photoshop i wish someone would give me both in one program..................photorel would be nice......................... ill post what i get with your settings within an hour or so

Frank Corker
03-12-2009, 1:06 PM
As a suggestion, you appear to have Photograv. There are some images stored in one of the folders which are 300 dpi, you might want to try one of those.

Duane Parcells
03-12-2009, 1:33 PM
Devon

Photograv dithers your picture. The Epilog driver should be set to standard if you are using Photograv or any other dithering process. With it set to say jarvi you are dithering the photo twice. That would sure cause some quality problems.
duane

Devon Jones
03-12-2009, 3:56 PM
well this is what i got with 50 speed, 100 power, 300dpi

the pics are not that great but brighten looks the best but you can see black dots through out the entire image....... can you get rid of that?

Dan Hintz
03-12-2009, 6:50 PM
Devon,

It often helps to put some non-reflective object somewhere in the picture but in the same plane of the mirror for the camera to focus on, like a block of wood at the top of the mirror. Bring the piece of wood closer to the center of the image, then crop it out when it comes time to post.

John W. Love
03-18-2009, 8:13 PM
but you can see black dots through out the entire image....... can you get rid of that?



I tried doing a picture on a 12x12 mirror we bought at HD (Stanley Brand as was mentioned previously on this thread). I ran several sample images where I tried various differences in contrast/brightness and also samples from Photograv. It appears that I have the power/speed settings correctly, as it burns through the backing perfectly without frosting the mirror. :) Ok, now for the problem, At 300 dpi the picture is loaded with the tiny black dots, at 600 dpi they are less noticible but still there. I resampled and enlarged the two processes that I thought came out the best (not photograv btw) into 1000 dpi and ran it that way, now of course there is very little detail because the dots overlapped. Is it that I am using too small of a photo in the samples and that is why it is doing this? Or is there something I am missing here and just not going through all the steps. Enclosed is the original photo and a copy of the test strips that I did.
And yes Frank, I have learned from you to be patient and run test strips first before tackling something new and building a large scrap pile :D. I already have enough granite scrap pieces to build a full size patio with various pictures in different states before learning that. I just dont want to have to tile the outside of my house in mirrors as well. ;)

John W. Love
03-18-2009, 8:43 PM
Well, try as I might I can't seem to get a good enough picture of the mirror to explain what it was I was talking about. :( I will post the original photo and then the corel file. Maybe that will help explain a lil more about what I am trying to accomplish

Tim Bateson
03-18-2009, 9:15 PM
Excellent Photo.
I work with 400dpi on mirror, so if your getting a decent output with 600dpi, then you're doing good.. I'm guessing those small dots will be unnoticeable from a normal viewing range.

John W. Love
03-19-2009, 12:43 PM
I wonder if it would improve the pic if we resample the pic to 600 dpi before we engrave it... It was a 300 dpi pic, but when we tried engraving at 300 dpi the little black dots were bigger and MUCH more noticable!

~Alicia