Toothed plane blade for difficult grain

[Richard Dooling]

Any opinions/experience out there about using a toothed plane blade to initially flatten a board with difficult grain? It looks like quicke stock removal, but is there an advantage in controling tear-out over a high angle frog?

Thanks

[David Keller NC]

Yes - A toothed smoother is, in my opinion, a lot easier to use than a scraper plane. But that's the tradtional wooden version with the iron bedded at 80 degrees or more. I'm not sure what would happen if you put one in a 45 degree stanley-type arrangement. My guess is that it would tear out the wood, since you're basically talking many little plane blades at 45 degrees.

By the way - the traditional use of a toothed plane is in a short smoother, and is the final step before using a cabinet scraper (or sanding, if that's your preference). I've never seen this configuration in a longer plane that would be suitable for flattening stock, other than a very specialized (and incredibly rare) scraping plane designed for scraping the brass fitments and wooden surface of rules.

[Joel Goodman]

I played with one at a LN event (in a LN low angle jack). I was told to plane diagonally and was impressed with the heavy cut with no tearout. What came out of the plane was more like chips than plane shavings. Of course had to clean it up with a finely set smoother. Would love to hear from anyone who has one. Deneb did indicate a preference for a BU plane for the toothed iron.

[Jim Koepke]

There is a new LN video that shows the use of a toothed blade in their low angle BU Jack.

it is on the same page as their fish tail video:

http://www.youtube.com/user/LieNielsen

jim

[Richard Dooling]

Thanks Jim,

That's what started me down this road.

It really looks like an interesting concept. I might think to use a scraper plane to handle this problem but this method seems to move a lot more material. I have the big LV scraper plane and they offer a toothed blade . . . hmmmm.

[george wilson]

Violin planes have come with either plain or toothed iron forever. Toothed for carving the curly maple back,plain for the spruce top. Does keep the big tears from happening in figured wood.

Those who watched the Woodwright's threads put to notice by Pam in this forum,will see my old journeyman Marcus planing with a toothing plane.

The insides of early Martin guitars were left toothed,to make the somewhat ,but really not too,oily rosewood glue better.

[Alan DuBoff]

Any opinions/experience out there about using a toothed plane blade to initially flatten a board with difficult grain? It looks like quicke stock removal, but is there an advantage in controling tear-out over a high angle frog?

Thanks
Richard,

I use a toothed plane blade in a LN #62 Low Angle Jack Plane, and it's great on difficult grain. Even in the worst case you can plane a highly figured board without tear out, and then take a smoother to the toothing left on the surface.

I also have a high angle blade for the same Low Angle Jack, and it works well also, but can still leave some tear out in highly figured woods.

I had a really difficult piece of purple heart I was planing, and even with the high angle blade, I was getting some tear out. Put the toothing blade in, and went over the surface, and followed up with the high angle blade to remove the toothing and all was well.

That said, highly figured wood will have the grain switching direction on you, and in some cases will be impossible without some type of toothing blade, IMO. If you don't have a toothing blade, not to worry, use a scraper. Also a great solution to highly figured wood.:)

[Danny Burns]

I think you will find the course of action for heavy stock removal in wild grain is to use a toothed blade first, and then try a steeper angle of attack with a tight mouth for smoothing, and a regular blade set to take the thinnest of shavings. If necessary a back bevel if you are using a BD bench plane.

If this fails then go to a scraper plane approach.
For small projects a hand scraper will do, and a holder helps to keep the thumbs from going past the medium-rare range into the well-done stage, if the area is large.

Instrument makers usually have to thickness the side stock for their instruments, and this involves a lot of wood removal, and so most use the toothed blade approach for the initial stages of the job.

[John Keeton]

Jim, that is an interesting video from LN. Has anyone used the toothed blade in the LV BU Jack? I have considered getting that blade for mine, but wondered if it was worth it.

[lowell holmes]

When I purchased my LV BU Jack, I just bought all of the irons. I've used the toothed iron on some curly maple and it helped. I really didn't understand how to use it. I wish I had seen the video then. I use the 50 degree iron occasionally. I'm sure it will be used after the toothed iron in the future.

[george wilson]

A note: I just remembered,if you buy a LN plane,be sure the iron has the name etched into the iron. That means it's one of the newer A2 blades,not a NOS 01 blade ( oil hardening steel).

[Joel Goodman]

"I use a toothed plane blade in a LN #62 Low Angle Jack Plane, and it's great on difficult grain. Even in the worst case you can plane a highly figured board without tear out, and then take a smoother to the toothing left on the surface."

What angle do you sharpen the toothed blade at (for the #62)?

[Pam Niedermayer]

A note: I just remembered,if you buy a LN plane,be sure the iron has the name etched into the iron. That means it's one of the newer A2 blades,not a NOS 01 blade ( oil hardening steel).

There is a sizable percentage of woodworkers who prefer regular carbon steel, whether O1 or Japanese white or blue, for the edges we can obtain. Also, on the white and blue, the edges maintain very, very nicely.

Pam, who also uses the toothed blade on the LN 62 and it works great, at the angle as shipped

[Steve Clardy]

I changed my LN 4.5 to a 55 degree frog along with LN's toothed blade.
Sure makes life easier with difficult/grainy woods.

[Richard Dooling]

First thanks to everyone for being so generous with their time and knowledge. Part of what got me curious about this was a piece of difficult maple that I was working back in December. I was already using hand tools more and this has pushed me more in that direction.

I do have a Primus smoother that beds the iron at 50 degrees and works difficult grain pretty well. I don’t want to spend the $$$s on a low angle smoother or jack with a grooved iron right now.

Sooo . . . I’m thinking of picking up the toothed blade for my LV scraper plane. That's a .125 inch A2 toothed blade @ $43.00.

That’s a meaty tool and with the ability to vary the blade angle I can alter the angle of attack.

Opinions?

[Alan DuBoff]

"I use a toothed plane blade in a LN #62 Low Angle Jack Plane, and it's great on difficult grain. Even in the worst case you can plane a highly figured board without tear out, and then take a smoother to the toothing left on the surface."

What angle do you sharpen the toothed blade at (for the #62)?
Joel,

I haven't changed the angle at all, it comes from the factory at 25 degrees. Seems to work fine, it's like the regular blade with teeth. The standard blade in the LN #62 is also 25 degrees.

The toothing blade is quite different though as it is only taking small cuts for each tooth, so I suspect the angle is less important than it is to have the teeth for that purpose. (pure speculation, I haven't looked into changing the angle to be honest)

I also ordered the extra 90 degree blade, but it came at 25 degrees like the other. I honed it at 40 degrees, as I recall.

This plane is extremely useful with these 3 blades, one of the most useful planes I have.

[george wilson]

The slightly more sharp nature of plain carbon steels is factual,Pam. The appeal of A2 is the much longer time they will retain an edge,about 5X longer if properly hardened and tempered. Make no mistake,A2 will take an edge that is quite razor sharp,too,but a good plain carbon blade shaves hairs just a bit better.

I use A2 or D2 for cutting and punching dies I make for our home business.They take effort to make,and they must stand up to thousands of punchings before they are re ground.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Yeah, a punch seems a most appropriate use for A2 and kin; but my chisels and planes are carbon.

Pam