Workbench Base Design/Ideas

[Jim Eller]

I just completed my workbench top. It is 25"x90"x3". It made of laminating 2"x3"'s of ash together.

Now for what is going to keep it off of the floor........the base.

A few questions:

What should the height be?

What about overhang? Should the top overhang the base or should it be flush with the sides of the base sides and legs?

What do I need to consider for installing the vises so I have what they need under the bench top?

I've seen some designs that have a perimeter to support the top and I've seen some with ends and a beam down the middle. How does one decide which to choose and why?

Is it OK to use pine 2"x4" for construction or does the base need to be made from hardwood?

What about dimension of the legs and frame? Is 4"x4" OK?

Should the base be open so that crap that falls through the dog holes can be cleaned up?

Keep in mind, it will not get much hand tool use. I'm spoiled, if a tool ain't got a motor on it, I don't use it unless I have to(Sorry!) I guess I just like noise.

Any pics, ideas, designs, thoughts, etc are welcome. I don't think I need to reinvent the wheel as many of you have gone through this same learning curve.

Thanks,
Jim

[Paul Demetropoulos]

My thoughts:


A few questions:

What should the height be?

About at the height of your wrist with your arm hanging down, using mainly power tools a little lower is usually better than higher


What about overhang? Should the top overhang the base or should it be flush with the sides of the base sides and legs?

Yes, overhang for clamping, I'd say at least 4 inches

What do I need to consider for installing the vises so I have what they need under the bench top?
Check out the vise you're considering



I've seen some designs that have a perimeter to support the top and I've seen some with ends and a beam down the middle. How does one decide which to choose and why?

I'd say perimeter with supports across

Is it OK to use pine 2"x4" for construction or does the base need to be made from hardwood?
2x4s work fine

What about dimension of the legs and frame? Is 4"x4" OK?

I have 4x4 legs on my main bench

Good luck

[Matthew Dunne]

I got this book from the library and am reading it now. It is incredibly thorough on design considerations with lots of examples and fun pictures:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5138O0hCBFL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Workbench-Complete-Guide-Creating-Perfect/dp/1561585947/

Here are two others that I've heard good things about (The Schwartz book is adored in the galoot community, but it sounds like that's not your speed):
http://www.amazon.com/Workbenches-Design-Construction-Popular-Woodworking/dp/1558708405/
http://www.amazon.com/Workbench-Book-Craftsmans-Workbenches-Woodworking/dp/1561582700/

[RickT Harding]

I can second The Workbench and Workbenches books. They're great reads and give you a lot to think about.

Also, see if there are some local woodworkers that have benches. I've gotten a ton of ideas/tips from the guys that have them and can mess around with their benches to see what works/doesn't.

The ash for my bench arrived today and I've been playing in sketchup for months now. Unfortunately your questions are a lot of "It depends...".

[Ben Davis]

Jim,

You seriously need to read Chris Schwarz's book. You have made an incredible start to a workbench that will last the rest of your life. Don't screw it up by making mistakes that have been repeated by countless others. The $25 the book costs pays out in spades. Not only does it cover the form, design, and historical perspectives on various workbenches, but it also covers quite well the various ways of employing a workbench. For example, want to plane or work the edge of a board? He lists (in order from best to worst) his opinions on how to best go about this work. Included in his discussion is what bench accessories or design features work best.

One of his overarching reccomendations is to make the legs coplanar with the edge of the top. You loose essentially no clamping space, but gain a tremendous amount of flexability in workpiece support. You also have the option building a leg vise (a heck of a lot cheaper than buying some commercial vises out there).

I can not make any stronger of a rec. If you do not at least check this book out from the library or read it at the local book store, you are doing yourself a tremendous disservice.

PM me with questions!

[John Sanford]

What about overhang? Should the top overhang the base or should it be flush with the sides of the base sides and legs?
Overhang on the ends. Do not have any overhang on the sides. If you go with a 4" overhang front and back, that means your base is going to be less than a foot and a half wide. On the ends, 1 foot overhang is good.

I've seen some designs that have a perimeter to support the top and I've seen some with ends and a beam down the middle. How does one decide which to choose and why?
The perimeter around the top is for when a bench is built like a table. It makes clamping a royal pain. You won't need it, because a 3" thick ash plank will be plenty stiff on its own. Nor will you need a beam down the middle. The beam will potentially interfere with clamping, although I'm not really sure how much of a factor that will actually be. Anyhow, no perimeter apron, and no beam means you can use deep reach clamps, shallow clamps, ANY clamps directly to the bench.

Is it OK to use pine 2"x4" for construction or does the base need to be made from hardwood?
You can make it out of concrete, cast iron pipe, hardwood, pine, whatever, well, not quite whatever. Al dente pasta, balsa, and white pine should be avoided. Southern yellow pine or douglas fir (i.e., normal construction lumber) will be just fine.

What about dimension of the legs and frame? Is 4"x4" OK?
4"x4" is just fine, that's what I've had for 8 years. Douglas fir 4x4s.

Should the base be open so that crap that falls through the dog holes can be cleaned up?
Yup, maybe. Define "open." I have a shelf sitting on top of the lower stretchers on mine. My Makita hotdog compressor lurks under the bench. Open allows you to recover stuff that falls through the dog holes that isn't "crap." You know, silly things like hardware, pencils, etc. You can put a "chest" of drawers in the base, but if you do, leave a good bit of space between the underside of the benchtop and the top of the chest. 6"+, ore if you use holdfasts. Make the chest removable.

Keep in mind, it will not get much hand tool use. famous last words!!!

Another vote for Schwarz's book. Also, go read his blog at Woodworking Magazine (http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/). Search out his posts on Workbenches (http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,Workbenches.aspx) Yes, his blog is heavy on handtools, but a good workbench is a good workbench.

[Jim Eller]

Thanks to all.

Once again, I appreciate the help.

Jim

[Steve Clardy]

Overhang. Yes.
Great for having a place to clamp something down

[Tom Cross]

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/content/binary/Dominy_workbench~.jpg

Above is the Holtzapffel bench I built last month based on Chris Schwarz book and designs in Woodworking Magazine. Chris is the best guru on becnh design that I found. Get his book. It is worth the money. Make the base coplanar with the top on one side to allow easy clamping of long boards with the sliding deadman. Skip the top aprons as they don't allow easy clamping. There is a wealth of information in the work bench blogs here:

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,Workbenches.aspx

There is a PDF file in the blog for the base design. It is awesome and will worth the time.

[Jim Eller]

Tom,

Thanks for the "thousand words". Now I get the picture. Coplanar on one side and overhang on the other.

Jim

[John Sanford]

Tom,

Thanks for the "thousand words". Now I get the picture. Coplanar on one side and overhang on the other.

Jim

From that picture, we can see why there's no need for overhang on either side, just the ends. The only place you are restricted from clamping directly to the benchtop is at the legs. That's it. An overhang, unless its a LOT of overhang, only gives you a couple inches of depth at those two points, but you lose a tremendous amount of functionality. In contrast, by going "coplanar", you have the faces of the legs to clamp to, you can put benchdogs in the legs to support workpieces, you can put holdfasts in the leg dogholes to support AND clamp pieces to either the legs or the facing edge of the top, etc....

Skip the overhang on the 'backside' as well, and if you need to, you can do exactly the same on the back. Of course, if your bench is against a wall, backside overhang doesn't matter, or may even be good because it allows you get the rear edge against the wall before the legs come into contact with base molding, concrete lip, whatever. That, however, depends entirely upon your situation.

Overhangs are a hangover from the old 'industrial arts' bench, which was a honkin' big chest of drawers with a top stuck on it. Because the drawers ran from the floor to the underside of the top, if they didn't have any overhang, there would be nowhere to clamp anything. Furthermore, without overhang, then you couldn't sit at the darn things comfortably. I used to have my top with an overhang all the way around. I've since moved the blasted thing back so the front face is in a single plane. Much more functional. Today I was lusting after some 8/4 stock for making a nice thick top like you've already made (8/4 means less gluing, :D ).

Buy (directly from Lost Art Press (http://www.lostartpress.com/product/3513e08a-2f07-4616-8f2f-74017f296377.aspx)), borrow from your local library, or , well, skip the stealing, Schwarz's book, Workbenches: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use . It will be a revelation.

[Pat Germain]

Another vote for the Chris Schwarz book and for making the legs coplaner to the top. I recently built the bench pictured in Tom's post after reading the book.

I needed to save some dough and made the base from douglas fir 2x12s I got at Home Depot. It worked better than you might imagine. I just followed The Schwarz's advice of wiping down the wood with acetone just before glue-up.

Get that Chris Schwarz book and read it cover to cover. Then you too will be among the workbench Illuminati. ;)

[Jim Eller]

Pat/John,

More great advise. Thanks.

I think coplanar on both sides will work. I guess I wasn't thinking about all of the clamping area between the legs seeing there is no base frame there.

What about that sliding dead-man? How is it connected on each end and is it something you would consider and why?

Jim

[Tom Cross]

The sliding deadman enables you to clamp an end of a vertical board in the face vise and support the other end with a bench dog or Veritas hold down. It slides to fit various length boards. Another use is for wide boards that can be clamped vertically to the deadman and one of the legs. The Veritas hold downs are wonderful for that as they work in horizontal bench top or vertical leg 3/4" holes. A twist of the brass knob and they hold tight.
http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/clamps/05g1401s2.jpg

The deadman has a a 5/8" x 1.5" tenon on the top end that runs in a 5/8" x 1" deep dado routed in the underside of the bench top. The bottom end of the deadman has a 1/2" deep V notch that slides on a matching V cut on the long stretcher. It works really well. I worked on a Tage Frid style workbench for 25 years and it did not have the coplanar functionality to clamp vertical boards. The deadman and leg clamping functionality for working on the edges of boards is wonderful.

I suggest you go to the following website and buy two issues of Woodworking Magazine - Autumn 2005, issue 4, on Roubo bench and Autumn 2007, issue 8, on Holtzapffel bench. Chris Schwarz offers compete plans and a lot of his wisdom on bench design. You can download a PDF file for $6 per issue, well worth the money.

http://www.popularwoodworkingshop.com/category/downloads/11
http://www.popularwoodworkingshop.com/category/downloads/12

[John Sanford]

Pat/John,

More great advise. Thanks.

I think coplanar on both sides will work. I guess I wasn't thinking about all of the clamping area between the legs seeing there is no base frame there.

What about that sliding dead-man? How is it connected on each end and is it something you would consider and why?

Jim

There are a variety of ways of connecting the deadman, but the simplest I've seen involves the two "V" grooves Tom mentions. Actually though, both "V"s point UP. A groove is cut into the underside of the benchtop, with a slightly smaller matching profile (male) cut on the top of the deadman. For the bottom, a V pointing up is cut into the bottom of the deadman, and a matching (male) profile is cut (or added as molding) to the top edge of the lower stretcher. The total height of the deadman is such that you can lift it off of it's "rail" by raising it higher into the "track" at the top.

Do I have a sliding deadman? No. Will I have one on my next bench? Definitely yes. I may even add one to my existing bench, given that it shouldn't be too difficult to do.

[Pat Germain]

I included the rail and groove in my bench for the deadman. I've yet to build the deadman. I also need to build the lower shelf. So many projects. So little time!

[Greg Cole]

I went slightly non-traditional on my bench. I am a hybrid powertool & Neanderer, so the bench is a bit of a hybrid too.
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=95077
Everyone's skill set and work methods are different, so there's really no "standards" for right or wrong.
The books mentioned given and advice here are all good things to consider for your bench and planned work for the bench.
After a few months of sporadic use, I can already envision building another bench (if I can make room in the shop). Seeing Jameel Abrams Rouboreally got me drooling and wanting a clone, "one of these days".:rolleyes:

[Rich Aldrich]

Attached is a picture of my work bench in progress. I was building a standard work bench that was in Nov 2005 Wood Magazine when I decided to add a shoulder vise. That is why I have 5 legs on this work bench. The shoulder vise goes along the long side of the workbench. I am right handed so they recommend the vise be at the left side. This vise will allow me to clamp a piece along the length of the bench as well as clamp irregular shaped objects since the vise jaw floats.

One of the guys on Wood On Line recommend the Workbench book. It really helped for this bench design, but I am not thrilled with this book.

I still have to put the shoulder vise on the bench, but I have too many other projects to finish - projects for me have to wait.

The legs are 3 x 3 with tenons, the top and bottom rail of the base are 3 x 3 1/2. I cut the mortise before I glued the pieces together for the rails. The base is made of 1 x maple. All of the maple was cut on my property and sawed by a friend with a portable saw mill. I air dried the lumber for 2 years.

The stretchers that separate the ends are 45 1/2" long. The bench top is 2 5/8 thick x 36" wide and 75 long. The rails are 32" long, making the width of the base is 32" (4" narrower than the top). I made the top of the bench 36" high because I like the height of a standard countertop. If I need the bench higher, I can add a spacer block between the top rail and the bench. If I need the bench lower, I will make a raised platform to stand on. I plan to make a drawer to go between the top stretcher and the bottom of the bench top. Also, I will make a cabinet of some sort to mount between the stretchers.

[Alan Schaffter]

Lon Schleining did an updated version of a traditional bench for FWW a few years ago.

My bench will be a updated version of his with an adjustable height leg (locking mechanism not pictured) trestle base of my own design:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/Base_qtr_view.jpg

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/NewBench-Up.jpg