Porkchop vs European Guard on Minimax FS30

[dan lemkin]

Hi,
Now that I am in the process of looking for a new machine, wanted to get some advice on particulars... What are your thoughts on the porkchop vs european guards for the minimax fs30? I Would love a biased narrative from Jim Becker re: this machine :)

I talked with Eric at minimax who said he likes the porkchop more, but have heard the opposite as well. What are pros, cons of both?

Would you get the wheel kit, or just put on mobile base? Does anyone have base dimensions?

Tersa blade material recommendations: HSS vs M42 vs Carbide

Also, how quickly will this machine burn through tersa blades? ie should I stock up on them? Usage will be mostly: 8-10" cherry, hard maple, small amt walnut and rosewood. Comes 5/4 rough, maybe a little cupped or warped - but clean and no nails, from an exotic wood dealer.

Any arguments for getting the hammer vs minimax?

thanks
dan

[Robert LaPlaca]

Hi,
Now that I am in the process of looking for a new machine, wanted to get some advice on particulars... What are your thoughts on the porkchop vs european guards for the minimax fs30? I Would love a biased narrative from Jim Becker re: this machine :)

I talked with Eric at minimax who said he likes the porkchop more, but have heard the opposite as well. What are pros, cons of both?

Would you get the wheel kit, or just put on mobile base? Does anyone have base dimensions?

Also, how quickly will this machine burn through tersa blades? ie should I stock up on them? Usage will be mostly: 8-10" cherry, hard maple, small amt walnut and rosewood. Comes 5/4 rough, maybe a little cupped or warped - but clean and no nails, from an exotic wood dealer.

Any arguments for getting the hammer vs minimax?

thanks
dan

I cannot speak to the MM FS30 specially, but I can give you some observations from my FS41 Elite.

I have the plastic 'pork chop' style guard, really the only way to describe it is a POS. Gets in the way almost all the time, most dangerous part of the guard is it does not have sufficient spring tension to return the guard back to the fence. More often than not I have to give the guard a nudge with my hip. If I had to buy the machine again, I would get the Euro guard..

The mobility kit works good, even on a 1100lb machine.

As for Tersa's, my experience is the only knife worth buying (of the non carbide types) is the M42 knifes. One thing that you will notice is a Tersa is sharp like a chef's knife.

Good luck

[Joe Jensen]

I'd love for someone to explain how the Euro guards work. Do you adjust the guard away from the fence to accomodate the thickness of the board (thus leaving the blades exposed when the board isn't there), or are they somehow spring loaded. I have to admit that having a pork chop guard was a key criteria for my 12" jointer selection, but I had never even touched a Euro guard before I made that decision :rolleyes:

[Dave Novak]

I have the plastic 'pork chop' style guard, really the only way to describe it is a POS. Gets in the way almost all the time, most dangerous part of the guard is it does not have sufficient spring tension to return the guard back to the fence. More often than not I have to give the guard a nudge with my hip.

I have the FS 30, and +1 on Robert's response. I don't like the pork chop at all. However, I called Eric an Mimimax to discuss swapping out for the euro guard, and he pretty much talked me out of it. Eric's comments, in concert with the unusually high cost, convinced me to live with the PC.

[Rye Crane]

Joe,

The euro guard comes in two forms. The one most of us have is rigid and
yes you are correct when edge jointing you pull it back just the thickness
of the stock being processed. Remember the void is filled up by the
wood when you are working. There is another source for euro guards, the
Suva guard has a pnuematic lever that allows the guard to remain in place and the lever allows the guard to be pushed out of the way when edge jointing just enough to pass the stock through. It is in my opinion the best possible solution but that also isn't free. They go for 1200+. For my
J/P 20.5" or 520 MM it is about 1600. USD. last time I looked.

The euro guard is also raised to allow the passage of the stock when face
jointing and I consider it much safer than the porkchop guard. The porkchop only works when you are not using the machine, otherwise it is
retracted allowing the cutterblock full access to your body. Scary at best.

I paid 550.00 for the standard euro guard for my machine and I am thankfull each time I use it.

I would also suggest that you be careful when moving the J/P around, all
machinery needs to be leveled out for best preformance. On my machine
I use a pallet jack and then spend a few minutes leveling with vibration
damping pads for the three points that touch the floor. You will find that
the cast iron jointer table is fairly flexable and on a mobile base it may be
difficult to precisely level.

Good Luck on your purchase.

Rye Crane

[Joe Jensen]

Rye, thanks.
When face jointing the guard is above the board? Seems like that would put it in the way.

On another note, Now that I have a 12" jointer I can't imagine how I would word along side a 20" jointer as the guard would stick out 20" to the left of the machine when working large boards. My arms are 37" long, but I'm not sure that's long enough :)

[Dan Lee]

I have a Euro gaurd on my General Int 10" jointer and do not like it. When the guard is raised to face joint wide thick stock the cutter is completely exposed until the wood passes over it.
I believe the concept is if a piece kicks back your leading hand will ride over the top of the guard?

[Jim Becker]

"Just say no to Porkchops on wide jointers"!!!!! I really, really, really, REALLY hated the one that came with my MM FS350 and gladly paid the money to get the Euro guard. I'd never go back now, even with a narrow machine, not that I'd go back to a narrow jointer, either. ;) The Euro guard is so much easier to use once you get used to it and there is never any exposure from the top of the knives, outside of a thin space the thickness of stock when you are edging. (I rarely do that latter anymore, however, as straight-line rips off my slider are glue-ready)


When face jointing the guard is above the board? Seems like that would put it in the way.

Yes, it is, but you learn very quickly to glide your left hand over it, fingers first and then the thumb, never releasing your hold on the workpiece, once the board passes onto the outfeed side of the cutter head. It becomes automatic.

[Paul B. Cresti]

I have the FS41 Elite + the mortising attachment, great machine. The porkchop style guard on a wide jointer is horrible. I have had the Euro guard on this machine since I got it and am very happy with it.

I have never used anything other then HSS knives for the Tersa head. They are extremely sharp :eek: and last quite awhile. I have never had an need for anything else as (I primarily use hardwoods)

The FS41 has an integral mobility kit with a T-bar. It works quite well and I have used it many times to gain more assembly area on large pieces.

Do consider the horizontal mortising attachment as some point. This will increase the function of your machine so that you get three machines in one.

Check out the archives here for my report of the FS41.....

[Robert LaPlaca]

I have the plastic 'pork chop' style guard, really the only way to describe it is a POS. Gets in the way almost all the time, most dangerous part of the guard is it does not have sufficient spring tension to return the guard back to the fence. More often than not I have to give the guard a nudge with my hip. If I had to buy the machine again, I would get the Euro guard..



Just to clarify my statement.. I find the supplied pork chop style guard to be the most dangerous when face jointing, nothing like 10 or 12 inches of exposed Tersa knives staring you in the face after passing a board over the jointer..

[Daniel Thompson]

I share Jim and Paul's opinions. I replaced the pork chop guard on my FS350 and would never go back. The euro style guard isn't inexpensive but is a huge improvement over the pork chop style.

I don't think the euro guard poses any significant problem when face jointing. You raise it just high enough for the board to pass below it. Your hands stay above the guard blade at all times and the blade is wide enough to provide adequate protection from coming into contact with the cutters.

[Chris Padilla]

Same as Paul: FS41-Elite and the porkchop guard is still in the orignal bubble-wrap tossed up on some forgotten shelf high in my garage somewhere.... :)

Actually, I don't like the Euro guard much either, truth be told....

[Steve Rozmiarek]

My previous jointer was a 6" Jet, with a really well designed porkchop. It's all I'd ever been around before I got my 16" Felder with the Euro guard. To start with, I hated the Euro guard. I was just used to working different on a jointer, namely face jointing with pushblocks in contact with the board, not my hands. Edge jointing is no problem, you just have to adjust the guard the board width away from the fence.

Now that I have used the Euro guard for several months, my opinion is a little changed. Try as I might, I can't get as excited about it as some of the other guys. I hate having to adjust the danged thing all the time. It always seems to be in the way to some extent. I do like how it completely covers the cutter when edge jointing, except for the gap where the board is. I still don't like it for face jointing, and quite frankly, I don't use it as designed, because I refuse to take my pushblocks off the wood to go over the danged guard. I still prefer the old porkchop, but, and this is a big but, a porkchop would be far less effective on a 16" jointer than it is on a 6" machine, so maybe the Euro is the best option.

Felder has a neat design that allows you to bend the guard in half to give more room to stand, which is a great feature, and I'd suspect that Minimax has something similar.

Bottom line, if you are used to a porkchop, I think you may hate the Euro for a while, but you will get used to it. I hope. The great news is that these Euro jointers work so well the guard could be the biggest pain ever, and you'd still have to seriously consider the machine for purchase. They are that good.

I'll plug Felder while where talking, but you won't be sorry with Hammer or Minimax either.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Dan, it took a bit of time to get used to not using push blocks with a Euro guard, however I'm now converted (Trained).

For face jointing you adjust the guard so it's slightly higher than the thickness of your material.

Then you feed the material with your hands, using the palm as you get closer to the guard.

With your fingers raised slightly, they go over the bridge guard while your palm is behind the guard, and then your fingers make contact with the board, pushing it forward and down onto the outfeed table.

As soon as your palm is over the guard, it can be placed on the outfeed wood to push it down and forward.

It sounds really complicated, however it's simple once you practise it.

The high fences on the Euro machines are aso a nice feature when edge jointing.

I would reccomend that you purchase the Euro bridge guard, prefferably a folding type if possible.

The old pork chop guards aren't very good on wide jointers.

You'll enjoy your Euro machine, whichever make you purchase.

Please provide some photo's of the shipping material/planer condition so we can compare the number of attempts required to prevent the shipping damage you experienced previously.

Regards, Rod.

[Mark Singer]

I have the Techno Max Elite with the Euro guard which is very good, better than the porkchop!
The has or m 42 knives are good they stay sharper longer
The mortiser on mine is on the back and a great machine acc!
I have 3phase elec bed model and really like it!

[Jeff Duncan]

I haven't ever used the Euro style guards so don't know what I'm missing yet, but I've used the traditional porkchop style guards on many jointers over the years, including on my own 8" & 16" jointers, and can't see why it's such a problem?
If it doesn't spring back when you pass a board through, it's either not adjusted correctly, or is improperly designed. And as for the blade being exposed for that split second when the board passes through, well I'm on the outfeed side of the machine at that point not really near the baldes, so it's not an issue.
Maybe one of these days I'll try out a Euro guard somewhere and who knows, maybe I'll even change my mind and not like the porkchop anymore either:rolleyes:

JeffD

[Chris Padilla]

Jeff,

One of the main issues with the pork-chop blade guard happens when you switch over from Jointer to Planer--especially if you have separated infeed/outfeed tables. Honestly, it's been so long since I've dealt with the pork chop blade, I don't remember all the pain.... :)