Dragon/Nicholson rasp comaprison photo.

[Dan Forman]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l279/T-Caster/P1020194.jpg

Left to right: coarse Nicholson and Dragon, fine Nicholson and Dragon

I took this picture earlier in response to a thread in the general woodworking forum, but thought it might be of interest to some of you down here as well. The Dragon rasp is carried by Stewart/MacDonald, a luthier supply outfit. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Files/Dragon_Hand-cut_Rasps.html

As you can see, the Dragons are finer than the corresponding Nicholsons, and the shape is quite different as well. The Dragon teeth go all the way to the edge, though are not randomly spaced as they are in the Nicholson, however given the greater number and smaller size of the teeth in the Dragons, I don't know that it makes much of a difference.

I haven't had that much occasion to use them yet, but they seem to be a good alternative to the more commonly known Nicholson, and are more affordable that the French hand cut variety. The fine Dragon leaves a noticeably smoother surface than does the fine Nicholson.

Dan

[Jim Koepke]

There is nothing on the site that mentions where these are made, any idea?

jim

[Dan Forman]

There is nothing on the site that mentions where these are made, any idea?

jim

They are made in China.

Dan

[george wilson]

The first time I saw the rasps now called Dragon was about 1973. Wholesale Tool,actually a machinist's supply in Charlotte,N.Carolina had them. They were $1.50 each !!

I bought some to try out. They were easy to file with an ordinary file. Not hardened. Check your Dragon rasp and see if it's hardened. The rasps I got had what looked like a scant coating of silver paint. I'm wondering now if it was a flash plating of dull chrome.Those same looking rasps have now gotten a LOT more expensive. Wonder if they are now hardened. What are they now ? $45.00? Saw them somewhere recently for sale.

I also,a few years ago,bought a highly touted smaller rasp from Luthier's Merchantile. It was hand cut in Eastern Europe,a lifetime tool,etc.,etc.. That rasp wasn't real cheap,and it wasn't hardened either. I took it and loaded it into a stainless steel foil envelope with some Kasenite,and case hardened it. Told them about their non hardened rasp. probably did no good.

[Brian Kent]

George, how is your experience with the hardness of Nicholson #49 and #50?

[george wilson]

Being a reliable,USA name brand product that I have used for many years,I've not bothered to test a Nicholson rasp. Tomorrow I'll try to remember to do so. Once the quality control man from Nicholson came into the Musical Instrument Maker's Shop.Called out "What kind of files are you using?" I told him I wished I could get Nicholsons,but all they sold around here were Black Diamond (which was a Nicholson brand marketed in the south,I didn't know at that time.) He revealed who he was. Next week,about 2 cubic feet of free Nicholson files arrived!!!

[Dave Anderson NH]

Well George, that is about the most interesting unit of measure for files and rasps I've ever heard.:D

On the serious side though, I've heard that the Nicolsons are now made in Mexico and that the quality level varies significantly from rasp to rasp. I can't verify that this is true though. Anyone heard anything about this?

[george wilson]

I hadn't kept up with Nicholson manufacture that well. I know that in the 70's and 80's they had a bunch of Polish file cutters doing their needle files. Sorry to hear that.

[george wilson]

Brian,sorry,I remembered to check my Nicholson #49. It's hard as any file. However,if they have gone to foreign production,who knows what might be the case. My 49 is not a recent one.

[Joel Goodman]

I looked up the 49 and 50 on LV, LN and TWW sites -- no one says made in USA so I suspect that they no longer are. LV in particular always indicates made in USA or made in Canada on the stuff that is. Perhaps Joel from TWW, if he's following this thread, will enlighten us as to where they are now made.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Nicholoson 49 and 50 are now made in Brazil. quality is variable.

[Joel Goodman]

Joel -- Thanks for responding!

[Alan DuBoff]

On the serious side though, I've heard that the Nicolsons are now made in Mexico and that the quality level varies significantly from rasp to rasp. I can't verify that this is true though. Anyone heard anything about this?
I received some Nicholson saw files from LV, I believe, that are so bad I will not buy them anymore. I was just exchanging some email about it with Pete Taran, he carries the Gorbet now.

I still have some Bahcos I got from Pete, and the comparison between them is astounding...the Nicholsons made in Mexico have tangs that bend easily on the 4 xx-slims, and the quality of the metal is apparent looking at them side by side, with the Bahco being much superior. The Bahcos were made in Portugal.

In knowing that the rasps are made in Brazil with variable quality, I won't be buying any more Nicholson products, files or rasps.

[Joel Moskowitz]

While we are on the subject Grobet files are made in either switzerland or india. make sure you get the swiss made ones.

[Jim Koepke]

Wow, not real glad to see this. It likely saved me some money though. I have recently been considering buying a Nicholson #50 rasp. Guess I will have to look for something else.

jim

[george wilson]

Tangs are soft,anyway so as not to break. Maybe they are extremely soft now. This is bad news.Nicholson was my favorite file.

[Jeremy Williams]

FYI - This company has the Nicholson's for $32 and $38. That is a great price in today's market. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2778&familyName=Cabinet+Rasps

Also, for what it is worth ... I put off getting the 49 and 50 Nicholson's for a long time because of price. Finally, one day I pulled the trigger. That has been one of the better decisions. Taking a short cut, like I did was a $20 Rasp that "looked" comparable was not worth it. I didn't know it at the time ... but now it's obvious. The random teeth and quality of the Nicholson is unmatched by any other I've used to date.

[Alan DuBoff]

While we are on the subject Grobet files are made in either switzerland or india. make sure you get the swiss made ones.
Joel,

Yes, the files that Pete Taran has at Vintage Saws are from Switzerland. Not a good sign that they are starting to move to India, hope that doesn't grow for them...

Wow, not real glad to see this. It likely saved me some money though. I have recently been considering buying a Nicholson #50 rasp. Guess I will have to look for something else.
Jim,

You might consdier the french cut rasps from The Best Things, they are good, much better than the Nicholsons, but at a higher cost.

I have 2 of these that I bought, and will try to get more profiles when finance permits...but I will definitely be getting some more of them.

Speaking of Gorbet, they make a round bastard rasp that looks like it would be very useful, and I saw that Pete Taran now carries those in 8" and 10" (http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=sawcare&right=/file/file.html) that look very useful, and reasonably priced.

[paul womack]

While we are on the subject Grobet files are made in either switzerland or india. make sure you get the swiss made ones.


Don't ANY firms that outsource impose QA?!?!

BugBear

[Joel Moskowitz]

Don't ANY firms that outsource impose QA?!?!

BugBear

It's not about Q+A it's about price. the cost of steel is the same worldwide. these Grobet files are all machine made so the only difference in cost is minor labor costs. So the real savings and the price difference comes from a specific corporate decisions to cut a few corners and come out with a lower priced product. Grobet at least understands that not every customer is looking for cheap - so they are maintaining their Swiss factories.

[Chuck Nickerson]

For those seeking rasps, don't forget Joel's offerings at Tools for Working Wood. I have several, and they work great. (Sometimes Joel shows too much restraint.)

[Richard Dooling]

Interesting. I'm just starting to slide down the saw sharpening slope. My local sharpener sold me some files out of what he uses as he doesn't stock these for retail. They are Bachos - never heard of them but they seem well made. Sorry to hear about the Nicholsons - I have some older ones that need replacing.

George, the sharpening service I'm referring to is Sure Set Saw in Chesapeake. I used them back in the 80s when I had a shop and have been very pleased to find that the owners sense of quality and fairness has passed to his son.

[Alan DuBoff]

They are Bachos - never heard of them but they seem well made.
The Bahco files are good, the ones I have are made in Portugal.

Pete Taran used to carry those at Vintage Saws. He now carries the Grobet, Swiss made.

[Jim Koepke]

Didn't Bacho used to be Sandvik?

jim

[Bruce Haugen]

and Sandvik used to be E A Berg, shark brand, Eskilstuna, Sweden

I just talked to my local supplier and found that no one in the US has them, and that they can't get the Bahco fine cabinet rasp in lots less than 10. And it takes a month from the factory.

Bruce