Need some advice

[Brian Cosier]

Hi everyone,

I just found this site last night and I've found so much great information on it and I want to thank everyone for thier imput. But I need some advice from the people in the know.

I was laid off from my job as a Systems Administrator at a company outside Philly a few months ago. Jobs in the IT field are very scarce right now in the area even for someone with 12 years of experience like me. I know people that have been in IT for 20 years that are taking jobs doing workstation support (entry level jobs) just to get working again.

I've been thinking about getting a laser cutter/engraver for a few years now. I'm very heavily involved in model railroading, and if I get this machine, I think that's where I'll focus my efforts. Designing structure kits, car kits and accessories in all scales. I've spoken with a few different laser companies, (Vytec, Epilog and Universal) and a couple of leasing companies, and I know that I can afford to get an entry or mid level machine.

Here's my dilemma, I'm pretty sure that I can do fairly well with the model RR stuff. I know lots of people in the hobby, and these folks always seem to have a few bucks to spend on something they need. Even with the economy the way it is now, there are still people in my club that drop $500-$1000 bucks for a new train when they want it. But what about the other ways to make money with the laser? I have lots of ideas of things I can make and sell, but are people and companies going to be buying anything until the economy stabalizes a bit?

This is something that I really want to do, but I don't want to take my family down for what may be just a pipe dream. Another big factor in my wanting to start my own business is that my 16 year old daughter is a special needs child. And in another 2 years when she finishes school, my wife or myself is going to need to be with her during the day. And a home based or local based business is going to make that a whole lot easier. My wife has been at her job for 16 years now, so health insurance and all that are taken care of. (She's always been the stable one) I want to use the laser in any way possible to make money, I'm not looking to get rich from it, (well, maybe a little rich :D) but I do want to be able to make a living. But I'm just not sure if this is the time to jump into something like this.

BTW, I'll try and help out with anyone having problems with thier computers, I won't be able to help too much with the lasers at first, but I'll try to answer any questions you have on the computer end.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Brian C

[Joe Pelonio]

Brian,

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, all too common these days. I use the laser to supplement my sign business, initially doing engraved signs, name badges and signs which have never been enough to justify the expense. The employee turnover requiring people to order such things has virtually
dried up. Companies that ordered several to 20 name badges or desk name plates a week have ordered none for quite a while now.

My most profitable and steady laser revenue comes from production work. Such things as parts for electronic devices, marking anodized aluminum parts for things, tags for electricians, freight cranes, and so on. That too has slowed a lot lately as building has nearly stopped and retail sales have been way down.

Someone else will have to comment on the sales of craft items, I have not really been doing much of that. I'd guess that the less expensive items might still sell if you can find a market for them, but it's a lot of work just to make enough for the laser payment. People around here are just not spending on anything not crucial.

[Steve Clarkson]

Brian,

Personally, I think the learning curve is steep, regardless of what the laser sales people say. My suggestion is that if you are still on unemployment, see if you can get that extended for re-training.....then learn Corel. Once the unemployment dries up, see if you can get hired by a trophy or sign shop that has a laser so that you can learn the business on their nickle.....kind of like paid training. Hopefully, within 18 months you'll be in a position to start your own business from home.....and that'll give you six months to settle in before your daughter is home full time.

Just my two cents.

[Frank Corker]

Brian, I'm sure you can see a 'niche' for model railway stuff but if you go headlong into thinking that work will come rushing your way, you will be making a mistake. I think at some point or other, every laser engraver thought they would find the perfect market, turns out most never do.

You will also see that a lot of people have found alternatives to what they originally started out with. Diversity is the only way forward. Don't blinker your common sense into believing money is going to be rushing in hand over fist because you will be sorely disappointed.

Right now, just about everyone knows someone who is either being made redundant from their jobs, lost out to the credit crunch. I know from my own situation that one thing that they can actually do without is unecessary expenditure, engraving is one of those things they can do without. Every company is cutting back and making do and this is one of those areas.

However! There are some who are doing well, I would be quite suprised if those were to tell us it was because of their view of a 'niche' market. Most likely it will be because the laser is versatile to do a wide variety of jobs, better and less costly that they took the opportunity at the right time. For you I would suggest you strongly consider the possibility that if the model stuff doesn't pan out, what will be your alternative market to work in. Like Joe said, payments for the machine are not going to be cheap.

[Tim Bateson]

I for one headed into this with just one niche in mind. Now 15 months later, I'm doing pretty well. I'm now almost a year ahead of my original business plan.

Oh... I should say that I've only had a couple customers for my "niche market".

Diversify, try it all, then when something works, learn it well.

[Dee Gallo]

Brian, I will take the other side of this discussion, as a "niche" producer who happens to use a laser.

I had a small but solid client base before I bought a laser, and worked completely on email and word of mouth. I now have my own website in addition to 2 other people who list my stuff on their sites, which generates about 1/2 of my business. I am as busy as I want to be (as a retired person) and make enough to be comfortable. BUT WHY? Because the niche I serve is very specific and I offer a service nobody else offers in the world, in addition to the fact that most of my customers are antique collectors who have apparently not been affected by the bad economy. None of them are going hungry because of my sales.

You can only serve a niche market like this if you are very knowledgeable in the field you pursue and produce an excellent product. I don't know about the model RR biz, but it seems to me there are people who are as rabid about it as my customers are about mah jong. YOU HAVE TO FIND THEM.

Do your research, not just among locals and friends, but on-line in groups, ebay, facebook, etc. to get as wide a clientele as you can. You basically have to become friends with collectors, then a reference, then a guru. Then they will flock to you. Then, cater to the high end only.

I spent my first year perfecting my techniques, researching and making connections. My laser paid for itself the first 6 months I had it since it made the work faster and easier (I used to carve by hand!) The second year I started building my empire: doing the impossible for people (losing money sometimes due to overtime, but learning all the while) which gained me a reputation for quality, speed and reliability. The third year I retired from my day job and made as much from my "hobby" as I do from my pension. That's a simplified timeline, but you get the idea.

If you have good computer skills: you can develop a website and design your products using Corel or whatever. That's the easy part. Being inventive, creative, providing for a need people don't even know they have is the complicated part. You have to understand your customers better than they understand themselves when it comes to their hobby. You have to anticipate their newest loves and create their oldest dreams. You have to create gifts they can't live without and can't get anywhere else.

So, the laser is only a tool, like a saw or paintbrush. It will only make you money if you have a rock solid idea of what your business must be while at the same time allowing for flexibility. You must also become very efficient and proficient in your work. If you can do this, you might be successful.

So what I'm telling you is I have been successful, but there are many out there who are struggling. Only you can judge honestly if you have the mental spark and drive to create a niche market. Just buying the tool and expecting customers to appear is a guarantee of failure.

Sorry this has been so long, but I wish you all the best.

cheers, dee

[Anthony Scira]

Buy Corel and design your models. Have a fellow member cut some kits for you and see if you can sell them.

That way you can save yourself 10-15 grand !

[Steve Clarkson]

You have to create gifts they can't live without and can't get anywhere else.


I like that!

[Mike Null]

It doesn't matter a hoot what you're making if you can't sell it you'll starve.

It is all about marketing. Learn to market yourself and you'll survive.

Good luck!

[James Stokes]

I have done fairly well with what I have been doing with my laser, But I had to diversify and use a lot of processes besides the laser. There are way to many people trying to jump in to the laser business and make a million dollars. It is not going to happen. There are quite a few people using their lasers in the model train market. I think you would have a hard time with that unless you can come up with something completely differant. There are at least 3 people on this board who are allready working the train market.
A major part of my business has been on the commercial side, that market is getting extremely tight, I am doing less & less every day.
As far as lasers, do not even think about Vytek.

[Rodne Gold]

Most of us doing good with lasers have them and many other complimentary machines beside and have established customer bases and markets.
I would not buy a laser cold these days , ie without experience and a fully developed customer base and market.

The question you have to ask yourself is: Why would people use ME?

What exactly do you have to offer em?

IMHO , only if you are the only game in town should you perhaps consider a laser. In RR modeling , you aren't and with the internet , its as easy to order from anywhere...
You might make it after a massive struggle to market and after a yr or 2 experience , but I can assure you that with a single laser , you wont become wealthy or make a really good living , if you NET $2-3k a month , you will be doing REAL good. There must be easier ways to make a living utilizing your skills and experience.

[Brian Cosier]

Thanks for the imput everyone. I really appreciate the thoughts. But just to clarify, I know that I'm not going to be able to do just the model railroad stuff. A quick look through the Walther's catalog shows how many others have had the same idea I did, just a lot sooner. But I know tons of people in the hobby and have a good reputation as a model builder and designer. One thing I've noticed about the model kits that come out every year is that most of them look basically the same. But every year, one company will come out with a kit that everybody wants, and that company will sell hundreds of them, if not more.

I know I'm never going to get rich doing this, but it is where my passions lie. But I do have a lot of other ideas that I can do with the laser to make money. I have 3 different friends that own photography studios, and have already spoken with them about putting stuff on display in thier studios. Now they've told me that in years past, the laser etched photo albums, and the wine glasses and bottles would have sold like gangbusters to couples getting married. But probably not as well now with the economy so weak. And there's a lot of other opportunities in the area, but getting out there and marketing myself is the key. (Well put Mike)

I'm also not going to stop looking for work in IT, I'm still a couple of years away from wanting to do this full time. But with the job market so slow, this is a good point in my life to start something like this. And until I get going at all, thank goodness they've extended unemployment comp!

And if this doesn't work, there's always the "Work at Home" websites, I just saw a commercial that said I can make $10,000 a week. :D

Thanks again everyone.

Brian C

[Carrol Fleming]

And if you do decide to buy a laser carry a bag of samples and business cards wherever you go - even if you pop out for some milk - you never know when you will have the opportunity to produce something that someone thinks is wonderful and will pay you to produce. I just love those "I had your card" orders and you realize you gave them the card outside the supermarket. (Well, it has happened to me once and they were so impressed with the job they have put in an annual order!)

I will add that my laser is not my primary earner and I live in a different world following a different set of life challenges.

Good luck with your decision.
Carrol

[Mike Null]

I think Rodney makes a good point about the need for additional equipment. I started 10 years ago with a 25 watt laser and a fairly well equipped wood working shop.

Today I have over $45,000 in additional equipment to supplement the laser engraving business--all somewhat related. Many have several times that much.

There is a major trade show in Las Vegas from the 25th-28th. You would be well advised to go. It's the ARA show.

[James Stokes]

I spent $65,000 on my first laser. Right now in just software I probably have $7500, My get rich quick scheme probably has me down some where around $150,000 and I am not rich yet, Just deaper in the hole.

[George Brown]

And if you do decide to buy a laser carry a bag of samples and business cards wherever you go - even if you pop out for some milk - you never know when you will have the opportunity to produce something that someone thinks is wonderful and will pay you to produce. I just love those "I had your card" orders and you realize you gave them the card outside the supermarket. (Well, it has happened to me once and they were so impressed with the job they have put in an annual order!)

I will add that my laser is not my primary earner and I live in a different world following a different set of life challenges.

Good luck with your decision.
Carrol
You're right. I have my jewelry samples in a case in the car, and where ever I go, I have it. I've even sold some of my samples on occasion, hey, I can always make more.

[Matt Geraci]

Dee-- Great advice. Thanks! Looking to supplement my sandblasting business with a laser and am reading and researching all the pros and cons. I too have a niche client base and business has grown. need to increase speed and potentially broaden my scope. Laser might be the trick??? Best wishes!
Matt


Brian, I will take the other side of this discussion, as a "niche" producer who happens to use a laser.

I had a small but solid client base before I bought a laser, and worked completely on email and word of mouth. I now have my own website in addition to 2 other people who list my stuff on their sites, which generates about 1/2 of my business. I am as busy as I want to be (as a retired person) and make enough to be comfortable. BUT WHY? Because the niche I serve is very specific and I offer a service nobody else offers in the world, in addition to the fact that most of my customers are antique collectors who have apparently not been affected by the bad economy. None of them are going hungry because of my sales.

You can only serve a niche market like this if you are very knowledgeable in the field you pursue and produce an excellent product. I don't know about the model RR biz, but it seems to me there are people who are as rabid about it as my customers are about mah jong. YOU HAVE TO FIND THEM.

Do your research, not just among locals and friends, but on-line in groups, ebay, facebook, etc. to get as wide a clientele as you can. You basically have to become friends with collectors, then a reference, then a guru. Then they will flock to you. Then, cater to the high end only.

I spent my first year perfecting my techniques, researching and making connections. My laser paid for itself the first 6 months I had it since it made the work faster and easier (I used to carve by hand!) The second year I started building my empire: doing the impossible for people (losing money sometimes due to overtime, but learning all the while) which gained me a reputation for quality, speed and reliability. The third year I retired from my day job and made as much from my "hobby" as I do from my pension. That's a simplified timeline, but you get the idea.

If you have good computer skills: you can develop a website and design your products using Corel or whatever. That's the easy part. Being inventive, creative, providing for a need people don't even know they have is the complicated part. You have to understand your customers better than they understand themselves when it comes to their hobby. You have to anticipate their newest loves and create their oldest dreams. You have to create gifts they can't live without and can't get anywhere else.

So, the laser is only a tool, like a saw or paintbrush. It will only make you money if you have a rock solid idea of what your business must be while at the same time allowing for flexibility. You must also become very efficient and proficient in your work. If you can do this, you might be successful.

So what I'm telling you is I have been successful, but there are many out there who are struggling. Only you can judge honestly if you have the mental spark and drive to create a niche market. Just buying the tool and expecting customers to appear is a guarantee of failure.

Sorry this has been so long, but I wish you all the best.

cheers, dee

[Bert Kemp]

So Brian Started this 6 years ago I'm curious as to what he did and if he's still around. Did he buy a laser did he make kits.

[Ian Johnson]

He did, here is a post from almost 1 year later where he mentions selling RR model kits- http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?135824-Help-for-project-pricing

Edit- Found his site, nice looking models - http://www.scalecreations.com/

[Bert Kemp]

Thanx Ian guess he got a laser and is doing OK:)






















He did, here is a post from almost 1 year later where he mentions selling RR model kits- http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?135824-Help-for-project-pricing

Edit- Found his site, nice looking models - http://www.scalecreations.com/