Rasps and files for cabriole leg

[Phil Warnement]

I have spent the past several hours searching sawmill creek for rasps and files used to make cabriole legs. It looks like the majority of people think the Nicholson #49 or #50 is the best buy for the buck. Many say buy the #50 over the #49.

I have one question that I wasn’t able to find an answer to. Do you have a file that you use to remove the #49 or #50 marks that are left in the wood and if so, what is that file?

I guess what I'm really asking; What two files do you use to form the legs?

[Joel Ficke]

Clean up the #49 or 50 with a bastard file available at any borg.

Follow that up with either sandpaper or a smooth cut file.

[Dan Forman]

I don't know if many here even know about the Dragon rasps from Stewart-MacDonald (a luthier supply outfit), but I much prefer them to the Nicholson's. They are made in China, but are hand cut, and the teeth extend all the way to the edges, just like the more expensive French tools. The coarse Dragon is finer than the fine Nicholson, so maybe the best bet would be a combination of the coarse Nicholson for faster roughing, then the fine Dragon for cleaning up, which should bring into sandpaper territory. Here's a link to the Dragons.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Files/Dragon_Hand-cut_Rasps.html (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Files/Dragon_Hand-cut_Rasps.html)

Note that the Dragons are shaped differently than the Nicholson's, coming to a full point, and much broader at the shoulder.

And here is a pic, showing course Nicholson and Dragon, and fine Nicholson and Dragon respectively.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l279/T-Caster/P1020194.jpg

Dan

[Pat Zabrocki]

I have the dragon files and some nicholsons too. I like the dragon's a little better.
cheers
Pat

[David Keller NC]

Dan - This depends on whether you wish to use the historic process (and the associated surface characteristics) for making these, or simply copy the shape/form and use modern methods.

It's not for certain what the most common tools of the 18th century were for making cabriole legs, but there is a fair amount of evidence. Generally, it appears that carving tools were the most common method. Rasps were expensive tools in the day, and a ball & claw feet were typically farmed out to specialized carvers. As a carver myself, I can absolutely assure you that carving tools are far faster than even a coarse rasp when it comes to hogging off wood.

However, if your concern is to simply get the form right, then bandsawing out the blank and using a rasp to form the correct shape offers a method with a more certain outcome than carving tools, and is much easier for a beginner. If that's the case, I would highly recommend that you get a Nicholson #49. You are not trying for a smooth surface here, as one of the Auriou or other hand-cut rasps offer - the objective is to get the wood removed quickly.

Once you've gotten the shape you want, the surface is best cleaned of the rasp marks with a spokeshave or carving tool (you can also use coarse sandpaper, though that will give you a substantially different final surface than blade tools).

[Dick Sylvan]

As a carver myself, I can absolutely assure you that carving tools are far faster than even a coarse rasp when it comes to hogging off wood.


I took a carving course from Lonnie Bird several years ago and for cabriole legs he used a Nicholson rasp (49, I think) for rough shaping, followed up with a bastard file. Last came sandpaper. I was amazed at how fast the rasp removed stock and how well the file cleaned it up. BTW, he is a great teacher and his courses are a lot of fun.

[David Keller NC]

"I took a carving course from Lonnie Bird several years ago and for cabriole legs he used a Nicholson rasp (49, I think) for rough shaping."

Indeed, there's good reason for Lonnie to use this method, particularly when teaching students. A rasp gives a considerably more sure, though slower, result than carving tools. They can also be wielded with little thought to grain orientation. If you try that with a carving tool, you may well split off a chunk out of the cabriole blank where you needed it.

Regardless, however, a "quick gouge" (a #11 in Pfiel system) or even a gouge of intermediate sweep (a #7) is far, far faster than any rasp, coarse or otherwise.

[george wilson]

I wrote a note about the Dragon rasps in another thread,"Dragon/Nicholson Rasp Comparison Photo". In the 18th.C.,baybe later on,cabinet makers also used a small hatchet on legs and gun stocks.

[Doug Shepard]

I've only had a 49/50 for a couple of years and so far have low mileage on them so I'm no rasp expert. But based partly on an old (dull) file my dad has that seemed to work OK for some stuff I decided to try one of the Nicholson files when LV started carrying them.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=56529&cat=1,42524
Boy do I like how that cuts. I got the flat one but if I were shaping legs I'd take a hard look at the half round one. I think it cuts faster than either the 49/50 while leaving a nicer surface.

[George Moore]

I use the hand cut rasps that LV is selling and I am very pleased with them. They do a great job at a reasonable price.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=20133&cat=1,42524

I also use some like Doug recommends but mine is Superior brand from my previous life in aircraft maintenance. They leave a nice smooth surface as Doug states. You can also find them surplus at times in the aviation trade magazines.

Have a Blessed day.
George

[Robert Rozaieski]

I typically use a spokeshave to do most of the cleanup of the long curves of the cabriole and a gouge and file to clean up the tight curves. Like David I find the surface left by the gouge and the spokeshave to be preferred to the rasp. However, I do use a rasp where needed and it's usually the #50. The file I use is just an 8" Nicholson bastard cut half round file. I often use a scraper to clean up and smooth as well. I try not to sand but sometimes it's inevitable.

[george wilson]

George,those LV files are really lead floats. If you could find them,the Nicholson SUPER SHEAR files are absolutely the best. They are similar,buy the curved teeth are cut off center and they have nicks in the teeth. These files do not build up chatter marks as easily as the lead floats. They cut faster than anything else. They cost about $45.00 even in the 80's.

I managed to get a Simmonds file of the same type from Traver's Tool Co. A few years ago. Not sure if they still have them. I can't recall the name Simmonds had applied to it,but it was the same file,exactly. Never get the smallest size Nicholson lists,they were always dull for some reason,while those larger were sharp as a tack. Smallest were 8" or 10". Get the 12" or 14".

The only problem I've ever found with the 49 Nicholson rasps is that they are TOO SHARP when new,and really bite too hard into the wood,and had to be broken in.

A few y