PDA

View Full Version : PayPal



James Jaragosky
02-10-2009, 12:51 AM
I have had a papal account for around 7 years, and I have had no issues with them, although I have read horror stories about them freezing bank accounts over issues and keeping accounts that way for weeks until they feel ready to release the funds.
So knowing this I have chosen to not get verified, as I do not want them to have that kind of control over my money.

Today they informed me through a pop-up that I had reached my ten thousand dollar limit and that I must verify my account to continue using the service.
I refuse to give them the right to put their fingers in my bank account.
Tomorrow I'll just start another account using the wife as the account holder and we should be good for another 7 years.

Why now? I got a clean 7 year relationship with them, and ten thousand dollars of problem free transactions, that in itself is a type of verification is it not?

This is the tripe that they spew when justifying forcing their way into my bank account.


Verified status means you have confirmed your bank account or been approved for the PayPal Plus Credit Card or PayPal Buyer Credit.

Having Verified status provides these benefits:


·No spending limit I had 10k un-verified how much more would I need?
·Increased security Letting someone else have acessess to my bank account is not incressed security in my book.
·More buyer and seller confidence because your Verified status shows other account holders that you have passed PayPal's security checks. I have over 200 positive transactions on ebay with zero negitive, that is all the confidence that anyone needs.

The arrogance and stupidity of corporate America never ceases to amaze me.
And No I do not need another credit card.

Thanks for leting me rant.
Jim J.

Ken Milhinch
02-10-2009, 2:10 AM
James,
I could not agree more. Their talk of added security is absolute rubbish and is not supported by any facts. I had over 500 eBay transactions, and most of those were conducted via PayPal. About two years ago, I suddenly got two charges totalling about $2,000 on my credit card (via PayPal). It seems some crook in USA, used PayPal to pay for a money transfer to Vietnam ! After complaining to PayPal all I got was an email confirming a credit had been processed to my account - no apology, no explanation, nothing. And they stiffed me for $40.
Then about 6 months later, they froze my account and told me that they did this for my protection, because somebody had accessed my account again. Some security system they have there. At this point I invited them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine, and closed both my eBay & PayPal accounts.

Steve knight
02-10-2009, 2:36 AM
just because paypal needs to verify you they don't access your bank account you but ti charge it a fake 1.00. as long as you don't set up a account to back up your paypal account there is no access of outside accounts.
there is also limits on amounts you can pay someone when you are not verified.
the problems some people have with paypal can be had if you have a merchant account too.
stuff happens and you only hear about the bad stuff.
my only real complaint with paypal is to get them to send me a new paypal debit card after I lost it. they said they have sent out 4 but I never got them.

Doug Shepard
02-10-2009, 5:24 AM
Another happilly un-Verified PP user here and plan to keep it that way unless I start selling thru eBay, in which case I'll set up a separate bank account just for PP use. I just pay through PP with my credit ard urrently.

Robert Eiffert
02-10-2009, 8:25 AM
I got a similar note ~6 months ago. Wanted bank info to continue use of account. I copy pasted the message to their support, explaining they had no need of that info. Went around 3-4 times, asking to be bumped up in supervisory level. And stated I'd be closing account if it wasn't resolved. They'd just lost a customer and all the emails would be posted to blog and forums.

Then I got a message saying it had 'been an error'..... and account unfrozen

Russ Filtz
02-10-2009, 8:49 AM
As stated, open a dummy account just for PP. Move money in/out of it as needed. They can still freeze that account on you, but at least it won't be your main checking account. Some sellers DON'T accept credit cards over PP, so you have to use direct pay or PP funds.

Chris Padilla
02-10-2009, 10:38 AM
I've been verified for many years...what is the big deal? They can't do ANYTHING to your checking account (which I don't leave much money in anyway....)

Some sellers on eBay won't deal with you if you aren't verified so I didn't see the harm and so far so good....

Neal Clayton
02-10-2009, 11:10 AM
i use chris's method. i have a second checking account which i never have more than a few hundred bucks in that i use for paypal and other such things.

David G Baker
02-10-2009, 4:15 PM
I too am unverified due to an accidental dormant bank account (the account was inactive for 12 months). In order for me to get re-verified Pay-Pal required a letter from the manager of my bank, which I sent them. That was not good enough, they then demanded a photo ID of me. That was where I drew the line. I have been an Ebay member for years and have done thousands of dollars worth of transactions, have zero negative feed back. I wrote them a nasty letter letting them know what I thought of their stupidity. I do vaguely remember reaching the $10,000 mark but don't remember what I did to fix it but it went away and I continued buying and selling but at a much reduced rate. I now do a lot of CraigsList selling instead.

Jeremy Williams
02-10-2009, 4:26 PM
Don't be so paranoid :p

Everywhere you look someone has a "horror story" of something bad that happened to them. Sometimes those people just bring it on themselves I think.

I've had a PayPal account for as long as I can remember and it's been verified since day one. Never a single problem and I use it monthly for a wide variety of purchases.

Don't overthink it. It's not that big of a deal.:D;)

Frank Hagan
02-10-2009, 5:39 PM
Yesterday, I got a letter from VISA that a database containing my card number was compromised (my wife got the same letter ... same account with both our names on it). They are sending a new card with a new number. We had the same thing happen with a Capital One VISA a few years ago. And we had our credit card number stolen ... not online, but the old fashioned way ... at a local restaurant. (I guess that's pretty common, because they take your card out of your sight to process it, so its easy for a crook to copy down the number).

My PayPal account? Verified for the past 6 years or so, and never a problem. It is tied to a separate bank account I use for expense reports and other small expenses, so the impact of anything being frozen would be small. But I have to say that I have had far more trouble with VISA and MasterCard than I have ever had with Paypal ... the credit card companies have tried changing fees, shortening the grace period, eliminating "free" services, hiking interest rates and on and on.

When an unverified Paypal member sends me payment for my hobby business, they have to wait until I'm sure the charge is good before the transaction goes through. That slight delay is the only problem I see between being verified and unverified from the standpoint of a vendor, so its probably not that big a deal.

Brian Kent
02-10-2009, 6:08 PM
By not "verifying" you may have protected yourself from a scam. Not from PayPal, but from some hacker setting you up to give your info to people pretending they are PayPal.

I got a similar notice by e-mail from "Bank of America" which I did not respond to. I found out later that this was a scam using B of A's name to get people's account and personal info.

I imagine one way to check it out is to find a legitimate web address for PayPal and call or write to them to see if they had sent this message.

Here is an example of the scam, as verified by truthorfiction.com:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/paypal.htm

And a similar note from snopes.com:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/paypal.asp

Brian

Jim O'Dell
02-10-2009, 6:33 PM
This happened to me about a year and a half ago. My PayPal was set up with my Visa card. I had made a total of about 4 maybe 5 purchases. All had been smooth. They informed me I needed to attach a bank account. I refused. They said something about being able to correct the situation with a verification process of a 2.00 charge that would be credited back upon completion of the purchase I was in the middle of. It never went through, I got charged the 2.00, but never got it back. I had to do a certified check for the purchase I was in the middle of. Thank goodness the vendor was very understanding. It took about 3 weeks to get the sprinkler pump here. I was steamed!!! PayPal has never gotten anything from me since, except a little of my grief spilled out here at the Creek!! :D Jim.

Tom Veatch
02-10-2009, 7:23 PM
... they then demanded a photo ID of me. That was where I drew the line. ...

I don't blame you! I can think of no word other than "ridiculous" to describe that requirement. What are they going to do, send someone out to your house to verify the photo is actually you?

Frank Hagan
02-10-2009, 11:31 PM
By not "verifying" you may have protected yourself from a scam. Not from PayPal, but from some hacker setting you up to give your info to people pretending they are PayPal.

I got a similar notice by e-mail from "Bank of America" which I did not respond to. I found out later that this was a scam using B of A's name to get people's account and personal info.

I imagine one way to check it out is to find a legitimate web address for PayPal and call or write to them to see if they had sent this message.


You can forward the email to "spoof@paypal.com" and they will reply with a message telling you if it is legit or not. The same "spoof@" email address works for eBay and most banks.

Modern browsers also show you the real URL you are hovering on before you click it ... for instance, this one looks like it is going to Paypal ... Paypal (http://www.sawmillcreek.org), but its going to Sawmill Creek. If you hover your mouse over that link, the bottom "status bar" in your browser should show the true destination. You should update your browser when a new version comes out ... I often will wait a week or two to make sure the bugs are out. But I would never feel safe using a browser that is two or more generations old.

glenn bradley
02-10-2009, 11:59 PM
I have never had a Pay Pal account. We use them as an example at work to scare users into thinking about security.

Brian Kent
02-11-2009, 12:37 AM
Frank,

Thanks for pointing that out. I tried it and it works on my browser. I never noticed that before.

Brian

Mike Wellner
02-11-2009, 12:43 AM
They are very anti-gun, they will freeze firearms related transactions, even for a clip!

Joe Chritz
02-11-2009, 1:24 AM
Your accounts are in more danger the next time you use a debit or credit card at the supermarket than nearly any legit online transaction. A large part of identity theft is still done the old fashion way.

Some of the verification is to gather information for targeting members (for deals, specials and the like) and a lot is actually for security. It is harder for someone opening an account in your name to go through the steps to verify an account.

A seperate account is by far the safest way to handle all debit/credit transactions. It is more accounting work but you limit your liability if the account is compromised.

The amount of fraud that credit companies just write off is mind blowing.

I am not a paypal fan and try to use it as little as possible, mostly because I don't like their political views.

Joe

Tom Godley
02-11-2009, 9:19 AM
I wonder if the 10K has anything to do with the IRS unreported cash transfer requirement. Why is the Paypal limit at 10K?

I do not see how it would fit the IRS requirements - just wondering.

I also have been verified with Paypal for years -- When I did it you could be verified using your bank account or a credit card. I was not verifying the account I was verifying myself! -- as only I would have access to know the amount or number associated with the deposit/charge they made.

I am not sure why this would concern anyone -- I did not give e-bay/ Paypal any additional information or access to the accounts.

James Jaragosky
02-11-2009, 11:25 AM
I wonder if the 10K has anything to do with the IRS unreported cash transfer requirement. Why is the Paypal limit at 10K?

I do not see how it would fit the IRS requirements - just wondering.

I also have been verified with Paypal for years -- When I did it you could be verified using your bank account or a credit card. I was not verifying the account I was verifying myself! -- as only I would have access to know the amount or number associated with the deposit/charge they made.

I am not sure why this would concern anyone -- I did not give e-bay/ Paypal any additional information or access to the accounts.

I do not think you realize that small transaction they use to verify your account establishes their ability to withdraw money anytime they deem necessary, they also have the ability to deposit money anytime. This goes for any company that you have a atomic withdrawal service setup with, or for that matter automatic deposits. Anyone of these companies can remove or deposit money in your account at will.
Do not get me wrong, millions of these transactions happen every day without incident but in my opinion PayPal has shown a willingness to use their ability to remove money or freeze accounts a little to freely in compression to the other intuitions that use this type of setup.

Frank Hagan
02-11-2009, 11:26 AM
I am not sure why this would concern anyone -- I did not give e-bay/ Paypal any additional information or access to the accounts.

I guess the fear is that the ease of funding your Paypal account from your bank account, and then the ease of sending that money to anyone with an email address, means that someone who hacks into your Paypal account has access to your money. Just like if they hacked into your bank account. I suspect you are not limited to $50 in liability with electronic fund transfers like that, as you are with credit and most debit cards.

Its a legitimate concern, so you should protect your Paypal account just as you would your bank account.

Still, some of the largest identity theft cases I've read about occurred with brick and mortar stores ... I think it was TJ Max that had their credit card database stolen by a guy with a laptop in the parking lot of one of their stores. Their cash registers communicated with the server in the back via an unsecured wireless connection that the perp "sniffed" from the parking lot.

Frank Hagan
02-11-2009, 11:28 AM
I wonder if the 10K has anything to do with the IRS unreported cash transfer requirement. Why is the Paypal limit at 10K?

I do not see how it would fit the IRS requirements - just wondering.


I'll bet you're on to something here ... I'll ask our accountants if the $10k reporting limit is a cumulative limit (we are all aware of the single-transaction reporting requirements).

Scott Shepherd
02-11-2009, 11:32 AM
Unfortunately, it's their way or the highway, isn't it? That's part of having a strong market share.

Take $25, head to a bank you don't use, open an account, then go back to ebaying as others have mentioned. Also, it's not like they have free access. Any withdrawls that are unauthorized can be challenged. Your account is FDIC insured, so it's not like they can step in and drain your bank account and you have nothing left and no recourse, but none the less, a separate bank account with a completly different bank should isolate any concerns about fraud, and it'll get you back selling.

If I had done $10,000 in business there, I'd have no worries about setting up another account and continuing on.

Tom Godley
02-11-2009, 1:06 PM
I used a credit card to verify my account -- I did nothing with my bank account.

But that would not have made any difference as far as changes to the authorization on the accounts (bank or credit). You were not required to provide any additional information - be it a credit or a bank verification.

They had all the information regarding the accounts -- verification did not change this and all of the regulations regarding transfers within the banking system remain.

If you are concerned about fraud you should not use papal or any other standard password protected site -- the act of verification does not change anything with you bank account or credit card.

James Jaragosky
02-11-2009, 1:54 PM
I used a credit card to verify my account -- I did nothing with my bank account.

But that would not have made any difference as far as changes to the authorization on the accounts (bank or credit). You were not required to provide any additional information - be it a credit or a bank verification.

They had all the information regarding the accounts -- verification did not change this and all of the regulations regarding transfers within the banking system remain.

If you are concerned about fraud you should not use papal or any other standard password protected site -- the act of verification does not change anything with you bank account or credit card.

They froze my account until I ether gave them my bank account information or opened a credit card with their company.
Like I said I have had a papal account for 7 years and I have 3 credit cards on file with them.
The fact that they the used the excuse that they needed to verify me is hogwash.
If they need to verify people then do it at the account setup not 7 years and ten thousand dollars later.

My guess is that most people just take the easy way and opt into their credit card, this way they get to charge the seller and the buyer, their card has annual fees as well as a very high interest rate.

I have had issues with two different companies that have had accesses to my bank account over the years; both times it worked out in the end although the aggregation it caused me was unreal considering that both times the error was on the other end.

E Bay and PayPal have some draconian policies and if you are in the majority you will never have a problem, if not you are at their mercy. If they have your bank account information your options are limited, at least with a credit card setup I have the credit card company to help deal with any issues that might arise.

I am not concerned with fraud as much as misuse or abuse. When I control my money I have their attention when they control my money they have mine.

I have resolved the issue by opening a charge account with them and moving it to a secondary status, but I still have to pay the annual fee on it, which I can only assume was part of their intent from the start.

Tom Godley
02-11-2009, 2:15 PM
I believe that two different things are being discussed.

Some are talking about Bank accounts and others are talking about Papal accounts.

I still do not see how verification will affect a bank or credit account.

Papal is a different story -- If for some reason they have a 10k limit on accounts w/o verification - then that is the policy of Papal. Maybe they are doing this to reduce the potential for fraud -- I have no idea! But they have the right to do what they want and you can accept it or reject it and stop using papal

That said -- I still do not see how the action of verification changes anything. You basically go through the process of authorizing one transaction the same as any other transaction for the verification process.

like i said before I used a credit crd to verify -- did they do away with this??

James Jaragosky
02-11-2009, 3:04 PM
I believe that two different things are being discussed.

Some are talking about Bank accounts and others are talking about Papal accounts.

I still do not see how verification will affect a bank or credit account.

Papal is a different story -- If for some reason they have a 10k limit on accounts w/o verification - then that is the policy of Papal. Maybe they are doing this to reduce the potential for fraud -- I have no idea! But they have the right to do what they want and you can accept it or reject it and stop using papal

That said -- I still do not see how the action of verification changes anything. You basically go through the process of authorizing one transaction the same as any other transaction for the verification process.

like i said before I used a credit crd to verify -- did they do away with this??
basically go through the process of authorizing one transaction the same as any other transaction for the verification process.

When you give them your bank information you give them the right to add and remove funds as needed as long as you have an account with them or you close the bank account. This in not a single transaction authorization.

As far as if this is a new policy I have no Idea.
But I do know that as of yesterday you have only two options to become verified, give them your bank account information or open a credit card using their company.

I feel that this has very little to do with verification and much to do with increasing profit, as most people will take the charge card rout.

Don Bullock
02-11-2009, 3:13 PM
James,
I could not agree more. Their talk of added security is absolute rubbish and is not supported by any facts. ...

I fully agree Ken. There is no reason that PayPal needs a bank account to verify who someone is.


.. I now do a lot of CraigsList selling instead.

Unfortunately, CregsList is now owned by eBay as is PayPal. For those who, like me have paid for eBay purchases with a check or money order you can no longer do that. The only way to pay for any purchase made through eBay is to use a PayPal account. I'm sure that this will happen with CraigsList as well.


By not "verifying" you may have protected yourself from a scam. Not from PayPal, but from some hacker setting you up to give your info to people pretending they are PayPal.

..
Brian

Brian is correct. There are many scumbags out there trying to trick you out of your "personal information." I seem to get several of these "fake" emails every day.


...
like i said before I used a credit crd to verify -- did they do away with this??

Tom, I've never seen that option offered on the PayPal site unless you are talking about getting a PayPal credit card.

I refuse to set up any bank account just so that PayPal can verify me. Those who do are risking getting all their checking accounts blocked from any check writing activity, not just the PayPal account. If PayPal has a dispute over your checking account they can file a warning with the companies that verify checks. Once this happens you won't be able to write a check. We had this happen once when our bank accidently mishandled one of our checks. Suddenly, without any notice, our checks were not being accepted at stores. It took more than a month to finally get the problem solved and we could start writing checks again.

Tom Godley
02-11-2009, 4:31 PM
I just went to Papal -- and I do not see the credit card listed as a way to become verified. But that is how I did it last March - I just checked.

Not sure why this was changed.


But I still would like to know how Papal can make an unauthorized withdraw on an outside bank account.

I never use the bank account way to pay -- but that is only for accounting reasons.

James Jaragosky
02-11-2009, 5:24 PM
I just went to Papal -- and I do not see the credit card listed as a way to become verified. But that is how I did it last March - I just checked.

Not sure why this was changed.


But I still would like to know how Papal can make an unauthorized withdraw on an outside bank account.

I never use the bank account way to pay -- but that is only for accounting reasons.
When you sign up your bank account to become verified with them it is in the fine print. And should you cancel the bank account you will become unverified.

Caspar Hauser
02-13-2009, 6:13 PM
I believe that two different things are being discussed.

Some are talking about Bank accounts and others are talking about Papal accounts.


Does the Pope know about all this?..:D

Brian Elfert
02-15-2009, 12:54 PM
I'm surprised the OP was able to spend $10,000 using Paypal without being verified. At least in recent times, most Ebay sellers won't accept Paypal payments if your account is not verified.

I thought Paypal used to have an option where they would send a letter to your address with a security you then entered at the site?

David G Baker
02-15-2009, 4:01 PM
I have not been verified for a few years but I have !00% positive feedback for over 200 transactions so I guess that counts for something. As far as accepting PayPal payments from non-verified buyers, the money is posted in the sellers account so I don't see why they would not accept it. The transaction is backed by cash in the buyers PayPal account or by a listed credit card.
I don't do large dollar purchases so that may be where the problem may occur.

Brian Elfert
02-15-2009, 5:24 PM
I have not been verified for a few years but I have !00% positive feedback for over 200 transactions so I guess that counts for something. As far as accepting PayPal payments from non-verified buyers, the money is posted in the sellers account so I don't see why they would not accept it. The transaction is backed by cash in the buyers PayPal account or by a listed credit card.
I don't do large dollar purchases so that may be where the problem may occur.

Your feedback rating on Ebay really has nothing to do with Paypal.

I believe the reason merchants will often only ship to verified Paypal accounts is because the merchant will have far less leverage with Paypal if something goes wrong along the way. I haven't paid too much attention to whether or a not Ebay sellers require verification as Ihave been Paypal verified for years.

Greg Crawford
02-16-2009, 7:25 AM
Never had a smooth transaction with PP. First one I couldn't get ANY response from "customer service". Fortunately, the recipient was a friend, and we worked it out amongst ourselves. Latest was when buying my Clear Vue. Ed uses PP to process credit cards. I used my VISA check card (will work as credit or debit). He called and said PP kept giving him an error, but wouldn't say exactly what was wrong. I called my bank, and they said my account was debited 3 times (approved), and the same amount credited back 3 times. I finally just sent a check to Ed.

If you want to read about a California court case with PP, visit paypalsucks.com. If you use PP, it's not a matter of if, but when.

Cliff Rohrabacher
02-18-2009, 8:54 AM
Pay pal is not regulated by the UCC like the banks are.
The regulation under which Pay pal operates is Regulation E. You can google it and read it but what you won't learn is how the courts are interpreting (and not) it.

To date Reg E has been the wild Wild West of financial regulations.

Because of Reg E, Pay Pal has more freedom to jerk you around more ways than a bank could dream about. You can sue them and they have a long and rich history of settling out of court with language in the settlement that forbids the litigant from discussing the matter.

As the suits mount in frequency and volume I'd expect this to come to an end and that they'd start trying to defend what many in my industry see as indefensible practices.

That said you can deal with them and safely let them have bank account access so long as: (1) the account you use for PAY PAL transactions is set up strictly for dealing with them and (2) you don't keep any money in that particular account beyond some minimal amount to keep the account open when not in use and just enough to conduct your transactions when you are dealing with them. That way the worst they can do is mess with the $$ you happen to have in that account.