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Dave Kurt
02-07-2009, 2:57 PM
We purchased 4 Crystal Slant Cubes (KCH 023), which "arrive in a beautiful satin-lined Gift boxes."

1 of the cubes was slightly marred, and on a flat crystal surface this is a major defect - we eventually used this piece for practice.

All four of the gift boxes were horrible. The satin lining was not properly wrapped around the Styrofoam frame so when I pulled each cube from the box, the satin came with it. We spent an hour in vain trying to reattach two of the satin linings to their styrofoam frames. I imagined how the customer would have reacted.

I called Laserbits the next morning to express my concern about the 1 defective cube and the four boxes - the young lady that answered the phone seemed nice enough but offered no help on replacements even after I confirmed their staff simply remove ordered items from a warehouse shelf and dump the product into a box for shipping. Apparently no one checks for defects.

Since we promised the customer a three day turnaround (probably our fault), we had to rush to a local crafts shop and create our own gift boxes.

This is not the first time, in fact the fourth time, we have received defective product from Laserbits. This was the first time they did not offer replacements.

We have been doing business with Laserbits for about two years, not very impressed with their service nor their Web site - seems awfully clunky for otherwise simple transactions. Does anyone know of another vendor offering crystal products similar to the Laserbits line? JDS seems oriented towards trophies and we prefer gifts.

Anthony Scira
02-07-2009, 4:48 PM
I find everything I have bought nicely packed and about the quality I expected.

Shipping has always been fast and accurate.

But I do wish they would sell more US made products. I would be willing to pay extra. And in this economy customers would too.

Rodne Gold
02-08-2009, 1:22 AM
Domestic VS imported.
We would love to support our domestic industry (South Africa) yet due to inneficiencies and greed on their part , we dont.
We import literally TONS of marble bases for awards and trophies , the most popular being a 2" x2" x 1" travertine base , with a hole drilled and a countersunk base for a nut.
Importing from europe , who gets it from china we have a landed cost of around us 30c...the local product , in vast qty (we import round 50-100 000 of these a yr) would cost us in excess of $4. So supporting local is just insane ..not one of my customers would pay that price. There are many other products we import at prices the locals cant or wont match. If there was even a price disparity of lets say , 50% in local vs import ..we would most likely not import ..but the price duisparities are often many 100's of % and despite our desire for "nationalism" , we just cant ignore this. My duty to my customer is to minimise their cost while maximising my profit...local just wont cut it on a lot of articles.

Anthony Scira
02-08-2009, 11:09 AM
"My duty to my customer is to minimize their cost while maximising my profit...local just wont cut it on a lot of articles."

But it would be a good option to offer at least in the environment in the US of buying US made products.

Our economy is faltering and I would like to keep as many as our workers employed as possible. And if my customers are willing to pay the difference to help all the better.:)

But yeah Laserbit's all good over here.

AL Ursich
02-08-2009, 3:32 PM
We purchased 4 Crystal Slant Cubes (KCH 023),

This is not the first time, in fact the fourth time, we have received defective product from Laserbits. This was the first time they did not offer replacements.



That could be the problem, the 4th time. With everyone watching the bottom line posting pictures of the damage or sending laserbits pictures of the damage could help your claim.

My luck has also been good with Laserbits.

If I had a customer call and want a adjustment 4 times I would check the outgoing orders very carefully or ask them to purchase the supplies some place else.

I would even ask the sales clerk to place a Quality Control Note on the order that the outgoing product needs to be inspected for quality Prior to being shipped.

On the other side, posting bad things about a quality company like LaserBits is too easy.....

AL

Dave Kurt
02-08-2009, 10:30 PM
On the other side, posting bad things about a quality company like LaserBits is too easy.....

AL

My intention was not to mar anyone's reputation, simply to note flaws exist within their purchasing process. If we had received only one bad product from the lot I would have shrugged it off, but certainly not all of them. In fact we have received bad product in the past and just shrugged it off, but this time was a bit too much.

Being members of NAPP (National Association of Photoshop Professionals), we (or at least I) regularly report on companies who provide poor customer service and product. If it does nothing more than make the next potential customer stop and think, then our time in the hot seat was not in vain.

Clyde Baumwell
02-09-2009, 8:50 AM
I am just going to weigh in on this thread. It seems to me to be the purpose of the forum is to help on another even if it means telling the truth about an experience with a vendor. I did not think Laserbits was being "bashed" in the original post - it seemed truthful and factual. If I now needed to order these items from them, I am have been forewarned and would ask them to check the items before shipping. I know we don't have a lot of vendors to choose from but we don't need to protect the vendors we have if the quality is suspect.

Frank Corker
02-09-2009, 9:13 AM
I'm suprised that no one from Laserbits isn't a member here. This has to be one of the prime laser user sites, where there are a lot of customers congregate. Surely it would be in their best intrests to know what their customers are thinking. If they send out goods which are damaged or substandard, then they should make ammends and do what they can to rectify the problems as soon as possible and without fuss. That's what I do with my customers, if they are not satisfied, I will take a 'hit' redo it and give them what they want.

Scott Shepherd
02-09-2009, 9:16 AM
I agree Clyde and the other side of the equation is everyone that is "bashed" (some people's terms, not mine) has the right and ability to address the issues right here. It's a public, open forum. If they don't like being "called out" online, then here's a hint, do right by your customers. Just because you had a good experience with that same vendor doesn't mean that the accounted bad experience never happened.

I'm always amazed when people post accounts of poor customer service and it's flooded with "Well, I had a great experience", like it negates the bad experience and makes it all okay. People post bad experiences because they are frustrated that they cannot get satisfactory responses from the company once the company has taken their money. It's great that you may not have had that experience, but they obviously didn't. Perhaps if you have such great relationships with the company, you could take a minute for a Sawmill Creek friend and call that vendor and tell them you are concerned about some negative comments being made about their company online, and you haven't experienced it and it concerns you as a customer.

It helps the person with the issue get resolution. I know of one case on this very forum where those not involved, got involved, and it resolved the issue very very quickly. We all have the power to help those who are having bad experiences with vendors.

Mike Fruciano
02-09-2009, 12:55 PM
I love forums and read this one frequently.

I will personally take a look at the product noted as being below our standards. Typically our policy is to replace faulty product and I will look into why we did not do it this case.

As far as American made, you wont find a more patriotic guy but frankly the manufacturing of almost everything American made is too expensive. You would be amazed to know that medical claims processing, credit processing and lots of other critical data is sent out of America for data entry and processing. We frequently price products made in America and find the prices to be 8-10 times higher. We have some American made products in our product line and find the price increases to be almost monthly. My grandparents came to America and made shoes and garments in large factories. Those factories have moved from country to country seeking lower labor costs.

The important fact is there are many quality products not made in America. LaserBits sources products, tests them extensively for laser compatibility, warehouses them and ships them in a timely manor. These are the tasks that our staff and myself take seriously and work to improve on a dailiy basis.

I value the input from folks on this and other forums and would be happy to respond to concerns of all types via email at mike@laserbits.com

We appreciate your support and business,

Mike Fruciano
LaserBits
Laser University

Rodne Gold
02-09-2009, 2:02 PM
I dont care a whit about laserbits ..I am so far from them they would never get my business anyway - but being in business myself - I would like my customers to approach me first for resolution of issues rather than knee jerk post on public forums
I actually think the title of this post could be construed as misleading - Laserbits Warning ...kinda sounds very ominous..perhaps if this was better worded...
The problem with sourcing from China or the like is that most "factories" producing some of the gooda like marble blocks or even glass products or satin lined boxes are little more than garages , its pretty much cottage industry there and the quality varies wildlywith almost no QC
Very difficult to check each and every one. In our marble imports we have about a 5-10% flaw rate - out of square , variable bevels , chips and so forth, we try sort out bad items and do complain about em to the mnfgrs , but some items are not possible to inspect and we have to either rely on my factory staff if we use em intenally or my customer to notify me.
Apart from that , airing dirty linen on a public forum without inviting the supplier to reply , by warning em that you are going to go public and sending em a draft of what you intend to say is , imho , wrong.
The original poster never seemed to have insisted on replacements, just said they werent offered like the 3 times before when they WERE!!!
Perhaps a far better solution would have to have gone higher up the chain than merely the young lady that answered the phone for resolution....
You shrugged off the last "defective" product ...so how were the suppliers to know there was a problem?
I think this whole post was and is a bit unfair , I think the reply from the supplier was very gracious after the slagging off he got.

Tim Bateson
02-09-2009, 2:21 PM
My 2 cents - I've had no problems with Laserbits products. They're a bit pricey, but everything I've received has been top notch including the silk lined boxes included with the crystal objects.
Also, they provide some of the fastest shipping in the industry. Saved my bacon a couple times when I needed an item ASAP.

Doug Griffith
02-09-2009, 2:24 PM
I would like my customers to approach me first for resolution of issues rather than knee jerk post on public forums

I'm with you Rodne. One bad comment in a public forum can undo countless good comments. Those reading the comment need to hear both sides of the story direct from both parties. Not just one. There should be a good amount of effort to resolve it offline before going public. It does more damage than good.

Cheers,
Doug

John W. Love
02-09-2009, 3:27 PM
Personally, I have always had good experiences with Laserbits. I order quite a bit from them. I subscribed to LaserU when I first began, to help me learn CorelDraw and how it would benefit my laser. I think in all the time that I have ordered from them we have had only one picture frame that had a scratch on it, and we were able to save it for a project that would laser over the damaged area. Laserbits has always responded to me in a timely manner when I have inquired about specific products and their applications.

With all of my positive experience from Laserbits I still believe that if someone has had a negative experience that they could not get resolution for, it is their right to post that information in a public forum where the company has the same right to a rebuttal. I have read back through Dave's post and I do not feel that he attempted to overly "bash" Laserbits, but merely to state his repeated displeasure with Laserbits and posted a warning to others so they may be forewarned of his negative experience.
Mike did come in and post that he would look into the situation and I believe that he will. From all of my experiences with Laserbits, I believe that he will not only check into the quality of the product (s) mentioned but will rectify the situation.

In the end, it is not only Laserbits reputation that is on the line with each of the products that are shipped, but also the reputation of the purchaser who has to sell this product to the end consumer. If the dispaly boxes that the pieces came in (which are part of the product and what is being purchased) are poorly made, then it makes us, the engraver and reseller look like we are providing poor quality items for sale. I know I personally would not want my customer to see something like that. I understand Rodne about the work being done in China may be done in garages etc and that there isnt always a chain of quality control, however the customer doesn't care about those excuses as to why you can't deliver a quality product. They simply want the correct product, done the correct way in a timely manner and they trust you to deliver it to them. And just as it is our duty to insure that the product we deliver to our customer is correct by doing a QC on it before it leaves the door, it is also our suppliers duty to do the same for their customers, ie us.

Steve Clarkson
02-09-2009, 3:35 PM
Typically our policy is to replace faulty product and I will look into why we did not do it this case.


Mike,

Welcome to the Creek! It's always a tremendous benefit to us to have manufacturers and suppliers maintain a presence here.

I think the important part of your response is what I quoted above.....what more could we ask for from a supplier?

I've always had good experiences with Laserbits and Kristin is the greatest!

Of course.......we always would like to see lower prices.....:)

But in lieu of that, maybe you could just post a 60% off coupon for us Creekers!!!!!!

Frank Corker
02-09-2009, 3:39 PM
I love forums and read this one frequently.

I will personally take a look at the product noted as being below our standards. Typically our policy is to replace faulty product and I will look into why we did not do it this case.

Good for you! I'm also one who isn't affected in anyway from Laserbits, I'm in the UK, but I do like to see this being addressed in the correct manner. I'm glad you're listening Mike.

Dave Kurt
02-09-2009, 10:25 PM
For those who thought the title of this topic was a bit harsh, you are correct. I was very frustrated at the moment I started the thread, almost felt cheated but I could have been more diplomatic, so I apologize to Laserbits for any grief. Ultimately my goal was to keep those with an interest informed and on the look-out. As was mentioned in several subsequent responses, do not trust your vendors just because you have been doing business with them. Check everything and question everything.

I think it great a Laserbit representative showed interest however it is a bit late for us. We spent most of last week searching and today confirmed a new vendor for our crystal products. The representative I spoke with was extremely informative and nice enough to mail a CD with high resolution product images at no charge (Laserbits charges $10 or $11) of their entire product line, and a sample gift box - I will post thoughts upon receipt.

I was impressed because I just called and asked about their product line. Well I did mention our recent experience so maybe that was a small factor. They are very local, approximately 25 miles from us so turnaround should be no issue. Their selection appears to be extensive and sophisticated probably because all they deal in is crystal; no metals, woods, or marble. That is okay since we have vendors for those other items.

Small things like supplying product images and samples at no cost go a long way to securing a customer. I am sure many business owners here deal with JDS. We have witnessed them taking that philosophy to the extreme although some of you may think it corny. As mentioned in my previous response, we work extensively with graphics as a course of our business, and were pleasantly surprised to see JDS not only provides at no cost high resolution images by disc and via their Web site but many of these images are separated from their backgrounds! Have you wanted to place product images with transparent backgrounds on your Web site or printed catalog? It looks very professional when everything flows. Why did they make that extra effort?

Our company is no different than the vendors we deal with; when a customer calls or visits our Web site, we expect them to have the very best experience possible, especially if they are repeat customers. If we receive an email or a phone call it had better be responded to the same day or the next business day at the latest no exceptions. If the request or concern is the slight bit reasonable we favor the customer. In fact we have made major changes to our Web site based on single customer feedback. I would rather lose a dollar once and keep that customer than lose them forever to save fifty.

Dave Kurt
02-26-2009, 11:36 AM
An update for Laserbits fans and anyone else wondering what became of our experience.

On the morning of February 13th we received a phone call from "Mike" at Laserbits who I assume is in a supervisory or management capacity. The call was obviously prompted by the concerns posted here - thank you Sawmill Creek! The conversation started with an explanation of the issue from delivery to a panicked in-house resolution to my phone call to Laserbits, which appeared to fall on deaf ears, to us finding another vendor. Mike apologized for the apparent lack of concern and indicated "changes" had already been made to ensure our experience would not be repeated. Feels great being a guinea pig :)

The middle of the conversation was mostly Mike and I trying to determine how we received such bad product, and not for the first time. After mentioning water or humidity (?) as possible culprits, which I thought had nothing to do with any bad product we received, Mike insisted on keeping us as customers. He promised to make good by offering several forms of compensation, one of which was a full refund! Wow - I was pleasantly surprised that someone else shared our vendor/customer philosphy, and not being one to spit on an extended hand agreed to the refund - if nothing else it would cover our costs for new gift boxes and the one marred crystal piece. My opinion of Laserbits flipped 180 degrees!

We finished the phone call with thank yous and good wishes all around. I mentioned the conversation to our business manager who was also pleasantly surprised, immediately making an adjustment in our accounting software pending the refund.

This morning our business manager reminded me we have not received one penny from Laserbits.

John Lewandowski
02-26-2009, 12:55 PM
I have personally had great support from Laserbits. I had some questions on a purchase I made from them and sent an email. Did I receive a reply from a customer support employee? Did I receive a reply from from a third party vendor? No. What I did get was a personal phone call from the owner.

I feel Mike and his staff are first class. To receive the attention that I got over a $100 purchase spoke volumes for the way he does business.

My two cents,
John

Doug Griffith
02-26-2009, 1:34 PM
my two cents...

If I don't have anything good to say, I don't say it. Especially in a public forum. One person's experience has too many variables for the public to pass judgement.

Mike Null
02-26-2009, 1:34 PM
You might call Mike a supervisor or manager but you could also call him owner.

Dan Hintz
02-26-2009, 2:18 PM
my two cents...

If I don't have anything good to say, I don't say it. Especially in a public forum. One person's experience has too many variables for the public to pass judgement.
Remember this philosophy the next time you feel slighted by a company you would have avoided had someone told you their story of horror. Sure, it's not nice to speak ill of others as a matter of habit, but to never speak up when you feel wronged is folly.

Rodne Gold
02-26-2009, 2:32 PM
I do not think this forum should be used as a consumer complaint resolution tool , even tho the items are related to our industry.
One never gets the full story in respect of either side and there are better ways to resolve issues.

I have had issues with some of my top suppliers and some of my customers have had issues with my company or service , sometimes its easy to reslove , sometimes they are not resolved satisfactorly ...however the one or 2 incidences which are not part of a general trend of bad business do not make my supplier or myself a bad company to deal with.

Steve Clarkson
02-26-2009, 2:57 PM
I do not think this forum should be used as a consumer complaint resolution tool .

I disagree. I think this is the perfect venue to discuss suppliers.....if not here, where else?

Granted, some may attempt to unjustly tarnish the reputations of one supplier or another......but look at this case.....for the one complaint about Laserbits, there were about five dissenting opinions that gave stellar reviews of the company. Whereas, with the Sign Warehouse thread, most people concurred with the original poster.

Personally, I take one person's opinion lightly.....but if there is a group consensus, shame on me for not heading their warnings.

Oh.....and I should probably note that I'm a huge fan of Kristin and the other Laserbits people and have been extremely satisfied with everything I have purchased through them (and yes.....I'm hoping they read this and send me 10 complimentary boxes of wooden pens!).

Doug Griffith
02-26-2009, 3:30 PM
I disagree. I think this is the perfect venue to discuss suppliers.....if not here, where else?

The problem is that it is a one way discussion unless the supplier is present to tell their side. We only hear one side of the story. I do not believe that the customer is always right.


Granted, some may attempt to unjustly tarnish the reputations of one supplier or another...

I'm sure this rarely happens. What does happen is biased opinion based on their unique set of variables.


for the one complaint about Laserbits, there were about five dissenting opinions that gave stellar reviews of the company.

Yes, but 1 bad outweighs numerous goods. The 5 to 1 ratio doesn't come close to overpowering the negative title of the thread or content within.

Mike Null
02-26-2009, 3:41 PM
I take the view that suppliers are fair game if they don't deliver on their end of the bargain.

But we have had instances where the suppliers were treated unfairly and where we quickly edited or removed the threads.

There have been a number of instances where a supplier took orders and money and didn't deliver. Clearly, calling those suppliers out serves those on the forum.

Dave Kurt
02-26-2009, 4:29 PM
Once again I want to clarify - I am not trying to label Laserbits as an awful company. I posted the events exactly as they occurred with no expectation of reward or compensation. My comments even included surprise when a refund was offered because we neither asked for one nor expected it. In fact if that first phone conversation (I believe it was with Kristin) had gone just slightly better I would have never posted anything.

As I mentioned in my second post, I think, I was simply notifying the community of what happened as a warning to never take anything for granted. We almost did by allowing barely enough time to rectify the issue in-house before the time the customer was promised product. Two of us stayed late after running (literally) to a local crafts shop to purchase items to 'construct' our own gift boxes. Simply stated, never trust the vendor to check product before shipping it to you - Mike confirmed no one checked the items we received.

So again, Laserbits is most likely a stand-up company with a lot of loyal and satisfied customers, but we cannot hold the torch for them after receipt of what we perceived as substandard product and then never receiving a refund as promised by of all people the owner. I again apologize, this time for mislabeling "Mike" as anything but an owner - obviously I did not know.

Steve Clarkson
02-26-2009, 5:24 PM
The problem is that it is a one way discussion unless the supplier is present to tell their side. We only hear one side of the story. I do not believe that the customer is always right.



I'm sure this rarely happens. What does happen is biased opinion based on their unique set of variables.



Yes, but 1 bad outweighs numerous goods. The 5 to 1 ratio doesn't come close to overpowering the negative title of the thread or content within.

I disagree.....again. Man, that's twice in one day! Guess I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

I agree that you only hear one side of the story....which is why I said that I take a complainers opinion with a grain of salt (or atleast meant to say that).

And as far as suppliers not being here to respond.....that's their own fault. Companies like Laserbits, Epilog, ULS, Colorado Heirloom, JDS, etc. should have an employee monitoring these forums DAILY. The ones that do (like Peck Sidera, for example) create goodwill and develop loyal customers. Talk about a marketing opportunity.....if there are a 100 Epilog customers on here that spent $20,000 on average for their laser....that represents $2 million in past sales and likely twice that in future sales.....and they're going to spend $50,000 on magazine advertising but not pay one of their employees to read these forums while they're drinking their coffee each morning? If I knew of a forum where dozens, if not hundreds, of my customers were congregating and possibly discussing my company and my products.....you bet your a$$ I'd monitor it daily.

But my ultimate point is that I do think this forum is an appropriate place to discuss suppliers......good, bad, or indifferent.

Gary Hair
02-26-2009, 6:58 PM
And as far as suppliers not being here to respond.....that's their own fault.
.
.
But my ultimate point is that I do think this forum is an appropriate place to discuss suppliers......good, bad, or indifferent.

I couldn't agree more! Even if a supplier has a stellar reputation, it would be nice to know if we all saw a trend developing.

One thing I think you'll find is that the suppliers who are frequent contributors are much less likely to get negative posts about them.

Why? The main reason, in my opinion, is that if they care enough about their customers to be here to support us, they are not as likely to be the company that does the things that we are going to complain about.

Gary

John W. Love
02-26-2009, 7:50 PM
I agree with Steve and Gary and so many others that have posted that this IS the place to post a complaint that you have failed to get satisfactory resolution to. I appreciate the fact that Mike took the time out of his busy schedule to post a response here stating that he would look into the situation. And frankly, (no not you Frank) had I known about this forum before I had ordered my laser, I might have considered Epilog or Universal with more weight simply because I see their guys posting here and answering questions, solving problems etc. And yes, that does make a huge difference when a company cares enough to take a few minutes out of their day to have an employee look through here just to see if something needs attn. I may not have an Epilog or Universal now, but when it comes time to expand my business you can darn well bet I will be looking very hard at these guys.
And Steve is absolutely correct, we are a captive audience for these companies and it is in their best interest to be perusing(sp) these forums and looking at trends etc. As I was reading through this thread again I thought about what the trends have been lately. This can be looked at by the questions that are being asked on here and the types of posts that are being started here.
Frank, Bill, Mike, Rodne and so many others have been a Godsend to Alicia and I just answering our newbie questions and explaining not only how to do something, but also taking the time to explain WHY it needs to be done a particular way. How much more beneficial would it be if our suppliers also piped in from time to time to give input on how something affects perhaps a particular line of products they have in response to similar questions that was posted. Would that not only increase their reputation? How about their sales? As the old saying goes "Money Talks and BS walks".

On another note, I would like to acknowledge Steve for a moment. I kinda look at him as a brother. He always seems to ask a question about the same time I am pondering the same thing. Although I started out with a laser before he did, we both kinda got more into it at about the same time, and we are both looking at that learning curve and have inched our way up that curve. I can't speak for Steve, but I know that I would have probably given up a long time ago if it hadn't been for the wonderful folks on this forum, not only those that laser engrave for a living, but also those that support the laser engraver for a living.

So, in the end if a company doesn't take the time to at least do a "google search" for their name every so often and see a post somewhere involving their company and respond to it, then that probably means the complaint was waranted as they just don't care enough to see what their clientelle (spelling again) is saying about them be it Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Doug Griffith
02-26-2009, 9:21 PM
Once again, I'm on my own in my opinions. Except possibly Rodne.

I agree that manufacturers, suppliers, distributors, and the like should be here on a regular basis supporting those that support them.

I believe that there is a wealth of information here that helps sway purchasing decisions... and that's a good thing.

I also believe that suppliers are fair game if they don't deliver on their end of the bargain... but...

I also believe that disputes should be resolved offline because we as the public viewing a complaint do not know the full situation and whatever is posted about the company is third party. We do not know the whole story.

Here's a short story that happened to me when my company was still in it's infancy, I pre-sold a custom item to a guy that would be delivered in 2 weeks. My supplier decided to pack up and leave town without telling me. By the time I found a new supplier and got the item to the customer, about 3 weeks had gone by. The customer complained so I offered to refund his money. He said he still wanted it so I let him have it for FREE. It was beautiful. He then took it upon himself to tell the world online how horrible it and my company was. After quite a few years and possibly thousands of positive responses, that one negative response would still rear it's ugly head. It was online, buried deep in an old dead thread, but still turned up in search engines. I'm sure it unjustifiably cost me sales.

Another time I sold an item on eBay to a guy in Italy (I'm in California). The next day he posted a negative response saying he received the wrong product. It wasn't even shipped yet. That was the only negative out of around 500 positives and took me a ton of work to get it removed from my record.

I like the fact that Mike said unfair threads would be removed. Not all forums are so generous.

Cheers

John W. Love
02-26-2009, 9:50 PM
Doug, I agree with you to a point. I am not suggesting that because we got bad service to immediately go and post it. I think that is irresponsible. I am speaking more on a problem that a person just cannot seem to get resolution to. A problem where closure just is not being obtained offline in a timely manner. At that point I believe it is our responsibility to let the rest of our community know what is going on. If I was having a severe problem with a supplier and could not get resolution from them, it is irresponsible of me NOT to let the rest of my peers know what is going on. If I knew of a problem I was having with a vender and didn't let anyone know about it and others were the same way, a lot of others could get burned and waste precious capital, time and more importantly hurt our reputation with our customers by not being able to deliver a quality product in a timely manner.

I think this should be used as a last resort when all else fails, not as an off the cuff, "I'll get even with XYZ supplier for delivering my supplies one day late" type of situation. As I stated before, It is our reputation on the line just as it is the suppliers. We should hold them to the same standards our customers hold us to.

And yes, I ended up closing an ebay account quite a few years ago because of one jacka$$ that decided to post negative feedback on me because he expected a newspaper to be in better condition than what it was described (I even had pictures of the paper and detailed description of the defects on it, which was yellowing and small tears along the edge, but what do you expect from a 110 year-old copy of The Congressional Record? It is not going to be in Mint condition) He got a steal for $30 and I got the shaft. live and learn. There is always one guy in the crowd that has the potential to ruin something good just because he is a butthead. lol

Steve Clarkson
02-26-2009, 9:59 PM
Brother John,

Please ponder a little faster from now on......it sure will save me alot of work!

Dave Kurt
03-01-2009, 6:10 PM
Maybe a moderator or anyone in the position to do so would consider closing this topic. While all the replies are a great testament to how strong this community is, I cannot see anything else coming from more responses simply because we did everything we believe possible to resolve this. Yes, there are Web sites such as Epinions and BizRate dedicated to 'bashing' or rating buying experiences but I posted here because the purchase took place within a unique and specialized industry and Sawmill Creek does a great job of compartmentalizing almost every part of that industry.

Last month we received bad product and quickly called the supplier to get resolution - that failed miserably. I posted my thoughts and an account of events, albeit properly classified by many as heresy. It was somewhat to vent but more so to make the community aware. The company owner made an attempt to do something by posting a reply and a week later calling us with an offer. The offer we accepted never materialized, making the whole effort moot. Since we no longer felt confident receiving product of that type good enough to pass on to our customers, we found a replacement vendor. We may still purchase from Laserbits for other items, albeit very cautiously.

All in all the experience was a learning one, costing us a little over eighty dollars in bad product and replacement items. Most important though is our customer is extremely happy with what she received.

I also agree more vendor input here would be beneficial to vendors and customers alike.

'Nuff said.

Mike Null
03-01-2009, 6:31 PM
I believe the owner was at the trade show all week in Las Vegas. I imagine you'll be contacted this week.

Mike Fruciano
03-01-2009, 7:16 PM
Hi All,

Just back from the Vegas ARA show. Thanks for stopping by and visiting. The show was great and very busy for the first two days as is typical. If you missed it, there was lots of good new products and seminars on creating new business.

Oh yes the credit, this was handled immediately after my phone call offering a full credit. I logged on to our credit card processing company today, Bank of America, and found this transaction to be listed as 'in process'. That is bank speak for we hold on to your money for as long as we can, if you ask me. Maybe that would be a topic for another thread.

Sorry for the delay in the return of the funds, our accounting department will call the bank to see what the problem is but my guess it will be immediately transfered after the phone call.

Customer service is important to us and I don't / can't monitor all the forums searching for flames. I do monitor emails and phone calls so please contact me in this method if there is a product question. Most of you folks know we answer lots of questions about laser processing even if it is not our products.

Thanks for your continued support,

Mike Fruciano Owner and Chief Everthing Officer
LaserBits.com
LaserU.com

Joe Hayes
03-01-2009, 10:45 PM
For what it is worth. I have known Mike Fruciano personally for about 7 or 8 years. I have found him to be one of the most honest and caring individuals in the engraving industry. As a rule he teaches at least one class at every ARA convention. This year I took two of his classes. As someone who has volunteered for teaching a class at the ARA it is a major undertaking, you only do it to give back to the industy. Mike has grown his business over the years and like all of us has had his share of bumps along the way. Many times when I first started my business I have picked up the phone and called to ask Mike his opinion or question about a product or process. He has always being very helpful and willing to share his knowledge. Many, many times it never involved one of his products. When I first got stated in the engraving busines there not any forums to turn to, or I was not aware of any at the time. I was one the orginal members of another fourm that is about engraving and other closely related products. We should all be thrilled to have forums like this one and others that are so willing to help each other. It is rare in the business world today to have such a giving community. Point being Mike is one of the orginal "givers" to this industry. I believe that he will resolve this issue and make changes to try to stop it from happening again.

Employees are not perfect, owners are not perfect. But if we (both sides of an issue) do our best to communicate clearly and honestly with each other normally a good resolution can be found.

I hate to see anyone have problems with a product or company, I hate it worse if it does not get resolved properly but it is part of almost any business I can think of.

I lost a good friend this week do to a mistake by her doctor. First time he had ever made this mistake but there was no good resolution to it. A family lost a wife, mother, grandmother, greatgrandmother. A community lost a teacher, advocate, caregiver and a true friend.

Sorry for the long post.

Roy Brewer
03-02-2009, 10:26 PM
I lost a good friend this week do to a mistake by her doctor. First time he had ever made this mistake but there was no good resolution to it.Joe,

Thanks for helping us put things in perspective. The owner of the largest trophy shop in Texas recently told me that he loves this business because the problems are so "solvable!" He recently purchased the business after running a chain of pharmacies. Just before purchasing the trophy shop, he spent two years, almost full time, in court because one of his pharmacies made a mistake which took a life.

Let's count our blessings for a business with problems that have relatively simple resolutions.

Ed Kloppenburg
03-02-2009, 11:24 PM
I thank you so much for your comments. I however have not had any problem with laserbits. I must state if a consumer is unhappy and does not get the service expected, what better way to let the company know. Did you know there are companies who hire people just to monitor forums, like ours. Their sole job is to put out the fires from consumers. To me it sounds like the system worked