Stupid toy planers

[Jim Kountz]

Ive got a Dewalt 734 I picked up for jobsite use and after using it for a while I thought Id change the blades in it. The blades are held in place with several allen head screws, I think about 7-8 per blade, dont remember exactly. Anyway, the screws were in so tight that many, read almost all, of the allen heads rounded out before the screw broke loose and now are all stuck.
These little toy planers irritate me so much, my larger shop planer has hex head bolts holding the blades in place. Why these smaller ones dont use them too is a mystery. Anyway, has anyone else had this happen and how did you get them out. Easy out? Screw extractor??
They should advertise these as disposable planers instead of just disposable blades.
If I cant get these blades replaced I either have to haul alot of material from the job to the shop or take my shop planer to the job site which I would rather not do!!

Help!!

[Greg Cuetara]

Jim,
I have a delta 22-560 and had the same problem you had. I ended up replacing the screws with hex head bolts. I replaced them after most of them stripped out which was not too much fun. I drilled a hole down the center of the screw and then used a screw extractor to get them out. It took me quite a while to get them out but now is is much easier to change the blades. as I can use my socket set to loosen things up.
Greg

[Craig T. Smith]

Jim, I think craftsman. And I know Mac and Snap-on sell something called Screw out. You chuck it in a drill(they show a cordless drill) put it in reverse and it digs in the screw or phillips or allen slot or you can drill a hole and presto it removes the screw. I've never used one but know several mechanics who swear by it. Hope this helps. Craig

[Gary Click]

Jim,

I had the same problem with a DW735. On this planer several of the screw heads "rounded out" on the first knife change. I used a sharp 1/2" cold chisel placed tangent to the edge of the bolt head and gently tapped with a hammer. The bolts came right out. Took maybe a minute or two per bolt. But the chisel must be sharp, it has to cut in slightly and grab the bolt head. I also blocked the cutter head to prevent it from rotating with a wooden block. I found that the problem was a combination of soft bolt heads and a poor quality wrench. Replacement bolts made by "Unbreako" did not round out.

As for replacing with hex bolts this may or may not work. On my planer, after reinstalling the button head screws, I found a line in the planed surface with the new knives. Surprisingly, it was a groove rather than a ridge. Looking closely I had left a chisel burr on a bolt head and it was high enough to drag on the planed surface. The head of the hex bolts would have to be very thin.

The long term solution was to replace the cutter head with a Byrd Carbide head.

[Brent Leonard]

Yep, any of the above to get out a boogered up screw/bolt head.

From my experience as a backyard ford mechanic, there are a couple things to help a stuck bolt:

penetrating liquid,,,,, PB Blaster being the very best I have EVER used.

heat...... although on a cutter head and semi delicate machine, might not be a great idea.

also, if enough of the bolt is sticking up, and it can be grabbed, there is a cam-lock style bolt extractor that works very well. A HF version would work for what you are talking of, IF you have enough room inside the machine to get the tool in and grab the bolt (probably NOT though).


I prefer an EZ-out as opposed to the cutter head style extractors for REALLY stuck bolts. The cutter head style can simply destroy the remaining bolt head if it is really stuck. Of course, a small ez-out can break off in the bolt, then you have to drill out a piece of hardened steel (can you spell impossible?)...... not fun either way.
Either method or tool/device, use something to help loosen the bolt such as penetrating spray or a little heat (i'd go with the spray).



Have fun! good luck

[Fred Belknap]

If everything else fails grind the head off the bolt and take the blade off. With the pressure off they should back off by hand or maybe pliers.

[Michael Wildt]

If everything else fails grind the head off the bolt and take the blade off. With the pressure off they should back off by hand or maybe pliers.

Unless they have a little locktite on them. Hope not, but you never know since the cutter head is vibrating a bit I guess. I'd go with the chisel approach first.

Michael

[Chris Kennedy]

A variation on Gary's idea -- use a punch or nail set on the inside of the rounded out head to break it free if you can get purchase.

Cheers,

Chris

[Jim Finn]

[quote=Gary Click;1044170]Jim,
I used a sharp 1/2" cold chisel placed tangent to the edge of the bolt head and gently tapped with a hammer. The bolts came right out. Took maybe a minute or two per bolt. But the chisel must be sharp, it has to cut in slightly and grab the bolt head. .................... This is what I did on my planer. (I learned that trick many years ago working on USAF airplanes.) I replaced the allen heads with hex bolts and it works fine now.

[Bill Huber]

Well by now I hope you have them all out and if you put allens back in I would get an Impact Driver to take them out with next time. If they are really tight an impact drive and a good hammer will take them out.

Get a good allen head for it, not a cheap one.

Not an electric drive but a hammer type driver like this.

109248

[Ryan Baker]

NO! Whatever you do, don't use one of those impact drivers above. They are horrible, useless things that will only cause more damage (yes I have one). You shouldn't be pounding on it that hard anyway, because you will only break more stuff.

Those screw heads tend to get filled with sawdust so make sure to clean the heads out well first. Use a good quality hex wrench with a good square edge on it for a better grip -- no ball-end drivers. The heads aren't deep enough for a good grip with a ball-driver and you will strip it every time. As mentioned, PB Blaster is an absolutely wonderful thing for getting stuff unstuck too. Take them out with an easy-out and get some replacements made from decent metal. Hex heads most likely will stick up too high, but it depends on the design of your machine.

[Bill Huber]

NO! Whatever you do, don't use one of those impact drivers above. They are horrible, useless things that will only cause more damage (yes I have one). You shouldn't be pounding on it that hard anyway, because you will only break more stuff.



Maybe you don't know how to use it, I have NEVER had a problem, you don't use a sledge hammer you lock it by turning it by hand and then hit it with a ball peen hammer.

[Shawn Stennett]

When I was in the Marine Corps working on C130s , we constantly had corroded, or rounded out phillips head screws. Many were rounded out badly, we would put a little water (spit) and baking soda in the head, then dip the screw driver head in it as well, apply good pressure and they would come right out. Try it on something it will suprise you,

[Jim Kountz]

Thanks guys I will try some of the suggestions tomorrow and maybe I wont lose my mind in the process. I will concur on several things mentioned already, the wrench that came with the planer is a total piece of crap, the screws are of very low quality and the ones that I did get out were WAY too tight to start with. I mean these things took all I had to break them loose. The ones that didnt break loose just reamed out. I dont think the extractor that you put in a drill is going to work simply because of how tight they are.
I do have an impact screw driver like the one Bill mentioned but I have no idea where to find a 5/32 bit for it. I think maybe the chisel approach is what I will try first, I have them all soaking tonight with some WD but maybe Ill get something better first before I try the chisel.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I got one of the Grrab-it sets for Christmas a couple of years ago, and it worked exactly as advertised on taking out some stubborn screws and even fixing a part for my woodstove that had broken off. They might work for your problem.

Doc

[David DeCristoforo]

You change the blades?!?! I thought you were just supposed to throw the thing away and get a new one! Scheech! You learn something new every day!!!!

[Allen Tomaszek]

I have a Delta 22-580 and am on my 3rd set of knives with no problems.

[Jim Kountz]

You change the blades?!?! I thought you were just supposed to throw the thing away and get a new one! Scheech! You learn something new every day!!!!

Well David Im starting to think just tossing the stupid little thing would better serve my sanity! I swore after I upgraded to a stationary planer some years ago I would never have another "portable" or "bench top" planer and like a fool I went and got one anyway thinking it would be nice for the job site. NOT.........I just hate to load/unload all that material AGAIN!! Oh well.

[Bill Houghton]

I wrenched funky old cars for years, and built up a decent selection of Vise Grips (now, they mostly sit, because I finally got enough ahead to buy newer cars). If you've got the room, and if the machine screws involved have the right head shape, a small pair of Vise Grips might help.

Get the real thing (not sure who's making them these days, maybe Irwin); all else is a pale imitation.

Be sure to orient the pliers so you're turning toward the hinged jaw.

You will, of course, murder the screw heads this way, but all the other suggested solutions do, too.

[Tom Esh]

After having to drill and extract several I finally got fed up and replaced them all on my 735 with high grade stainless. They're still a bit grabby but not as bad as the originals, and most importantly they don't round out or snap off.

[Jeff Duncan]

Once you get all the bolts out and replace them with decent quality bolts you should be fine. I have a little Delta lunchbox that's about 10 years old now and use it for all sorts of little projects not worth firing up the big boy for. Right now it's actually jigged up to run angled glass stops.
It's actually very handy and although I had to replace a few parts I'd have to say for the $300 I spent on it I certainly have gotten my moneys worth out of it.
good luck,
JeffD

[Dave Verstraete]

You can try an "old diemaker" trick. Sharpen a drill backwards. Place it in your drillmotor and spin it in reverse. Now....apply a lot of pressure while forcing it into the top of the screw. It usually spins the screw right out.....believe it or not.

[Jay Yoder]

When I was in the Marine Corps working on C130s , we constantly had corroded, or rounded out phillips head screws. Many were rounded out badly, we would put a little water (spit) and baking soda in the head, then dip the screw driver head in it as well, apply good pressure and they would come right out. Try it on something it will suprise you,
Shawn, what is the theory behind the baking soda trick? What are the physics of it? friction? heat? expansion?
maybe i am missing something simple ...

[mreza Salav]

When I changed (for the 1st time) the blades on my 734 planer I noticed the same thing: the screws were really really tight. I was concerned either the wrench it came with will break or the screws before the let go. Fortunately all opennded without a problem.

I was going to say try WD (which you said you've done).
Note that the blades have two sides, just turn them side by side.
I learned this as I was going to replace them with a new set. Well the new set is still waiting...

[Lee Schierer]

Before you drill. Tap each screw with a hammer. Then see if a metric allen wrench fits the hex. With the number of things being made offshore. More manufacturers are switching to metric screws as they are easier to get outside the US than are the US sized screws. If you get the screws out, I would replace them with new ones.

[Jim Kountz]

Jim,

I had the same problem with a DW735. On this planer several of the screw heads "rounded out" on the first knife change. I used a sharp 1/2" cold chisel placed tangent to the edge of the bolt head and gently tapped with a hammer. The bolts came right out. Took maybe a minute or two per bolt. But the chisel must be sharp, it has to cut in slightly and grab the bolt head. .

Gary, thanks a million for the suggestion, it worked like a charm. I sharpened an old beater chisel I had and did as you said and they came right out, actually quite easy too. I know what you mean about poor quality bolts and the wrench supplied with the tool. It was pretty easy to make a notch in each screw head with the cold chisel, almost too easy.
Many thanks again, at least for now the little puny planer is up and running again!!

[Skyp Nelson]

I was planning on reversing the blades on my 734 this weekend. THX for the heads up!

[Gary Click]

Gary, thanks a million for the suggestion, it worked like a charm. I sharpened an old beater chisel I had and did as you said and they came right out, actually quite easy too. I know what you mean about poor quality bolts and the wrench supplied with the tool. It was pretty easy to make a notch in each screw head with the cold chisel, almost too easy.
Many thanks again, at least for now the little puny planer is up and running again!!

Glad it worked out!

[george wilson]

Take the advice of whoever said to replace those screws with Unbrako.Next best,Holochrome. Stainless aren't real hard,but corrosion may be the problem.Then,they'd be o.k.. Is there a Fastenall store near you? Try spraying a little Liquid Wrench on the screws before doing anything,and wait a while for it to penetrate.

ALL IMPORT ALLEN SCREWS ARE CRAP!!! I always soon replace the ones on tool holders used on metal lathes if they are imported holders. Those get adjusted often. GET AN EXPENSIVE SET OF ALLEN WRENCHES!!! Allen is good. I have Elkind. Snap On is good. Can you get a good set in a store? Order them from MSC,and get a good name brand. And,if you MUST tap on one,put a small nailset in the hole,and tap on that.Don't distort the hex holes. Remember,you are tapping on the import ball bearings,too. Bring the cutterhead down against a wide piece of accurately parallel wood to cushion the bearings if the screws are really a pain. PUT THE TIP OF AN ELECTRIC soldering iron against the srew if the liquid wrench doesn't make it. Heat works surprisingly well,and would melt any Loctite. Take the screw out before it cools if you think Loctite may be in them.

I always had trouble with stuck Delta gib screws on 6" or 8" jointers. They get a bit corroded with wood acid,or a bit of moisture. I ground down a real wrench to fit into the narrow slots. Those stamped Delta wrenches were crap.

[Shawn Stennett]

Jay I am not certain to be honest, I just know that it works most of the time. You would think that packing it in there with baking soda, it would just break up as soon as you turned the driver, but it almost always got it out. When they were to far gone though we would just drill out the center and clean out threads. I wish I had a better explanation.

[Jay Yoder]

Shawn,
if it works it works, u know? I should just leave it at that! what is good enough for the military (and it works) is good enough for me!!

[Charles Lent]

If the bolt head is still fairly good I've had great luck using the impact driver shown, but it has to be used correctly. Place the driver on the bolt and then turn it's handle counter clockwise about a quarter turn until it hits the stop. Then a few moderately sharp raps with an 10 oz to 1 lb hammer is all it should take. It comes with an adapter that allows the use of socket wrench sockets and I have often used mine this way. Sockets with allen wrench bits are also available.

I serviced imported printing presses for many years and am very familiar with soft screws that were tightened way too tight at the factory. With almost no exception I have been able to remove screws, hex bolts, and allen head screws, even slightly damaged ones, using one of these impact drivers, some WD-40, and a few taps with a hammer.

Charley

[Larry Edgerton]

Jim. I routinely replace all fasteners that have to be used for replacement or adjustment with new ones from one of these three places

My favorite: www. arp-bolts. com

McMaster Carr

Grangers

In that order. Also over the years I have worn out half a dozen portables and I have come to realize that you do not need to do more than snug up those bolts. I do a two finger tighten now and have never had a blade come loose. I have also learned to loosen up those bolts as soon as you get a machine, they have gorillas in the factorys I think, and after use it just gets tougher. I had that same problem lately with a Dewalt electric hand planer.

I see you are a bit of a bull like myself, and we do tend to want to teach those bolts who's boss don't we? I bet you have broken your share as well.....

[Jim Kountz]

I see you are a bit of a bull like myself, and we do tend to want to teach those bolts who's boss don't we? I bet you have broken your share as well.....

Oh man yes. I cost myself a good bit of cash each year with tools that get *cough cough* broken:rolleyes:!!
Seems they just wouldnt submit to my desires and they paid dearly for it. Or now wait a minute I paid dearly for it!!:D:D
Im on medication now to keep me from doing things like that!!:D

[Skyp Nelson]

FWIW...I did battle with my 734 today. I had a blade change planned anyway, so this post motivated me. To make a long story short, knowing I was screwed anyway, I went for the throat and just chiseled them all loose. Took ~ 2 hours, and replaced them with harded steel. Time will tell.