Grrrr...Is it me or the wood?

[Chris Kehl]

Let me start this by saying, I am a rookie, and I'm using Pine 1 x's from a local lumber yard. I realize it's not top grade lumber, and it doesn't happen all the time, but when I rip down a 1 x 8 to around 2" strips, I end up with a piece that is seriously crooked. About 6' is straight then the last couple feet curves off. It was straight when I started? It's not like I'm curving the first couple feet into the table saw:mad:. I'm trying to replicate (the best I can) old trimwork in a house we just bought. It's all pine, and I want it all to match, at least profile anyway. Sorry just had to vent a little. Anyone else had this same problem?:confused:

[Michael Donahue]

I've bought some pine from the borg that moves more than a slinky when you cut it. Maybe it's just the nature of the beast? I don't know. I had some pine scraps that I wanted to use for drawer sides and they moved quite a bit through the planing and jointing process. This was after they'd been in my shop for months and should have been reasonably dry @ the borg.

If you are using it for trimwork, maybe you can force it straight as you nail & install it?

[Andy McCormick]

Its probably not dried correctly. so everytime you cut it the stresses are released in the lumber and whala you have skis!

[Tom Veatch]

Common, expected problem when ripping a piece of construction lumber. Reason it happens is because of internal stresses in the wood. During the drying process, different parts in the wood shrink slightly more than other parts. That puts part of the wood in tension and part in compression which is all balanced out until you rip it. Then the internal stresses reach a new equilibrium causing the board to wander all over the place. I've had dimensioned construction lumber pinch the saw blade trying to close the kerf as well as open the kerf with the two pieces bowing away from each other, and all conditions in between.

Direct answer to the question in the thread title: It's the wood, not you.

[Chris Kehl]

Thanks guys, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something I was doing. I think maybe I should start looking for some higher quality lumber. If I could only find some pine as good as what is casing this house already. It's 89 years old, they just don't make it like that anymore.

[hank dekeyser]

If the trim you are trying to repair / replace is available, I would buy the trim - If you have an older home (50plus years) it is most likely a different species of pine than what is available "off the shelf" even the S&B pine will twist and cup like crazy - It's the nature of the wood - when you cut wood it tends to want to "go straight" That is , the grain that starts curved tends to straighten out. The thinner you go w/ the cuts , the more it will happen. Try to find boards that are straight grained (good luck) to help minimize this. Problem is , the straight grain stuff just plain lacks character. Reaso I recommend buying trim that is already machined is what you see is (most times) what you get. Problem w/ wood these days is it's all "fast growth" meaning the growers try ro get the trees to grow big and fast to produce more, resulting in wood that has wider grain that moves more

[Mark Bolton]

Andy is right, the wood is case hardened in a fast drying without the stress' being relieved in the lumber. This is very common in fast tracked material where price is a bit more important than quality. Most of the pine we have used below clear or D&Better is dried with the thought that it will be used in the size its sold and not broken down into smaller pieces.

If you think of the board like a bundle of straws that act like bungee cords, the outer ones are case hardened so they have much more tension, the inner ones are much more relaxed. When you separate the two, the outer ones overpower the inner, and the fun begins.

Mark

[Doug Miller 303]

Thanks guys, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something I was doing. I think maybe I should start looking for some higher quality lumber. If I could only find some pine as good as what is casing this house already. It's 89 years old, they just don't make it like that anymore.

Chris,

If you can find it, use Sassafras. It is inexpensive, stable, good looking and a dream to work with. I used to do lots of work on those old houses, and sassafras saved the day more than once. It is also great for exterior trim and bathrooms, as it is almost as decay resistant as teak.

There are two downfalls to using it though: 1. Wear a mask when cutting, the dust is not good for you. 2. Finding decent sized pieces is tricky. If you have a boat builder nearby, he'll have a source for you.

Let's see some photos of the house, we all love those old beauties.

Doug

[Chris Kehl]

Unfortunately I have check with several local places, and no one has the profile I need. Sounds like if I buy stock closer to the finished size I will have better luck. There is a crown molding at the top of all the door and window casings, and I need a piece of stock just under 2x1-1/2. Thought I would just face glue two pieces together, and mill it from there. Sounds like I need to re-think that. Thanks for all you help, I've only been on here for about a week, and I can tell already I am going to learn a lot from everyone. It's great to have a place to ask questions, no matter how simple or "rookie like" they may be.

[Mark Bolton]

Chris,
Your right in that buying a piece of lumber as close to the finished dimension has a chance of giving you better results however it still can give you trouble. If you imagine buying a pine 1x2 (3/4"x1 1 1/2") and milling a cove that basically removes 1/2 of the long face on the diagonal, you could still have the same problem.

The real issue is, as you said, finding a source for quality lumber. Within reason, it has nothing to do with the lumber itself with regards to the tree. It has to do with how the wood was sawn and dried. It is the responsibility of the sawyer and drier. The sawyer is to cut the tension out of the wood and the drier is to relieve the tension introduced in the drying process. In todays economy these steps are usually very lightly touched if even at all.

I would imagine with some asking around you could find a supplier in your area that supplies quality lumber. You will know when you find them because whoever refers them will likely say something like "yah, that place has great lumber but man, there prices are high". Its not a guarantee but its a good start.

Mark

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Chris, I don't normally purchase pine since I don't like it for furniture, however I've been "helping" a friend make a cabinet and hutch.

(You know "Helping", where they show up in the shop with inadequate drawings, never jointed or planed anything etc, and are expecting to make a cabinet). LOL

Well when I went to my normal supplier they had clear molding grade pine in thicknesses from 4/4 to 8/4, rough sawn.

After aclimatizing to my shop for a month, we started machining it. It was wonderful, it's stable, straight grained, machines very well.

The only similarity with BORG pine is that they have the same name.

Do yourself a favour and find a supplier of quality material........Regards, Rod.

[hank dekeyser]

Chris , If you have any (bigger) cabinet shops in your area or a place that specializes in mouldings, I would check w/ them to see if they have the profile you need. I have had many instances when matching trims, that a local shop had the cutter I needed and ran off some trim for me. If you need a lot of trim you can have a local shop cut a blade and run the molding for you as well. One last note - Many of the OLD trims can be replicated really close by using different trims and mouldings readily available from the borg - (some of them literally are just "stacked" trims)

Enjoy - you'll get the hang of it -

[Chris Kehl]

Thank you for all the help and ideas. Hank, if I can find a good picture, I'll post so you can see what I'm matching. It's really pretty simple, the one that's giving me the trouble is the crown. It's not like crown that you'd put on the ceiling, it's full width, and sits on top of the top piece of the door casing. Sorry this would be a lot easier to describe if I knew the name of all the moldings. Let me see if I can find a picture, if not, I'll take one this evening and post it.

[Chris Kehl]

Ok, this isn't a real good picture, but it's the best I have here at work. All the doors are cased the same as this window.....

[Jim Becker]

That's really nice work, Chris...

[Howard Acheson]

Let me add that construction lumber is dried to a less dry state than furniture lumber. In some cases, it's only dried to 19-20% to reduce its shipping weight. Some is dried to 12-12% but that still leaves quite a bit of moisture. Furniture lumber is typically dried to 4-5%.

What this means is that construction lumber will be quite unstable and have big variances in its moisture content throughout the board.

Couple of options. One is to buy the lumber and stack and sticker it in, or close, to the environment in which it will be worked. This might take 2-6 months to get it equalized. A second choice is to by pine from a real lumber yard that carries lumber used by furniture makers. This pine will have been dried to the same level as other hardwood furniture lumber.