Backwards hot water heater...and more...

[Dan Friedrichs]

Hello all,

I know most everyone here is a woodworking expert, not a plumber, but I trust the wisdom of the Creek, so I'd like to solicit some advice from you:

Recently moved into a 7-yr-old house built by a "reputable" national builder (*cough* Richmond *cough*). I wasn't able to inspect it myself before purchasing, but did hire a reputable inspector, who found nothing wrong.

Upon moving in, I found the hot water heater to be located in a closet in the garage, and it's sitting in a shallow pan of stagnant water. It appears to be sitting on top of some cut off pieces of pipe (or something) so it's not actually touching the water. The pan has a drain attached at mid-level, and the water level is being maintained by a "dripper" attached to a plastic tube on the hot water outlet pipe.

Ok - what is this? I've never seen this on any water heater before. Why have it sitting in a pan of water?!

Just to make the story more interesting, the hot and cold water lines are also switched around - and the shutoff is on the hot side. Useful, huh?


Pictures attached. I just replaced the pressure/temperature relief valve (was leaking), so that's why there's water everywhere :)

[Mitchell Andrus]

The relief valve is an important part of the system and if it drips once in a while it's either leaking or doing it's job. The pan is there for obvious reasons.

I'd be happier if I saw solid pipe all of the way to the heater.
.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Mitchell,

The relief valve was leaking for reasons other than doing its job :) I replaced it, and the new one does not leak.

I agree that solid pipe all the way to the heater would be better - that's what I plan to do when I swap the hot and cold lines to the correct ports on the top (and when I put the shut off on the cold side, not the hot...)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the pan being obvious. Sure, if the pressure relief valve trips, it'd be nice to get the output into that pan and to a drain. But there is one of those slow-drip taps on the hot water line (sorry I don't know what they're called - they produce a drip every few hours to keep water in a seldom-used trap?), and it feeds that clear piece of plastic tube, and that's what's keeping water sitting in the pan. Why have the water heater sitting in a pan of water?

Thanks for any insight you can provide -
Dan

[Pat Germain]

The pan is there to catch any leaks or overflow. My basement water heater has a drain nearby.

If there's standing water in the pan, the drain pipe which attaches to the pan is likely clogged. I would suck all the nasty water out with a shop vac, unclog the pipe, then clean the pan with some bleach water.

FYI, the water heater is sitting up on a concrete pad because it's in the garage. Code requires the water heater to be elevated in the event there are flammable fumes in the garage. Theoretically, the fumes will stay low near the floor and the water heater will be above them and not create an explosion.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Pat,

The drain isn't clogged - it's just connected at the side of the pan half-way up.

Also, I'm not sure I made this clear earlier: The water that is currently in the pan is coming from a "dripper" valve that has been installed on the hot water supply line. I'm not sure that's the correct term for it, but if you have a drain trap that rarely gets used, I understand that you're supposed to install one of these drippers to keep a little water in it at all times (so it doesn't dry up and let sewer gas escape). The drain for the pan under this water heater would fit in that category, but shouldn't the tube go to the drain, not the pan?

Dan

[Thomas Bank]

The others are missing the point - I see what you mean. The water is coming from the plastic tube curling down from the vicinity of the valve on the pipe above the water heater - not from the pressure valve.

Where does the pan drain to? I see the pipe coming out the front, but does it go to a drain that possibly has a trap that needs to be kept wet?

I see no reason to maintain a level of water in the overflow pan and would be calling the inspector to come explain this to you since he obviously thought it was proper...

[Chris Padilla]

I'm curious what the issue with "non-solid" line to a water heater is/are.

Most water heaters I've seen have flexible lines. Sure makes it a lot more easy to change water heater or adjust things if necessary.

In CA, you also have to strap the water heater to the wall to prevent tip-over in the event of an earthquake.

[James Jaragosky]

503.1 Cold water line valve. The cold water branch line from the main water supply line to each hot water storage tank or water heater shall be provided with a valve, located near the equipment and serving only the hot water storage tank or water heater. The valve shall not interfere or cause a disruption of the cold water supply to the remainder of the cold water system. The valve shall be provided with access on the same floor level as the water heater served.


I stand corrected. now I need to get a shutoff on mine.
Jim J.

[Pat Germain]

Pat,

The drain isn't clogged - it's just connected at the side of the pan half-way up.

Oh, OK. I still don't think there should be any water in there. It's just an invitation for mold, mildew and pests. My water heater looks exactly like yours and it doesn't drip any water.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Thomas - absolutely correct. The water comes from that plastic tube. The pan drain does go to a open drain with trap that needs to be kept wet, so I suppose that's the purpose of that drip device being installed.

I have no idea why someone thought it was a good idea to have it drip into the pan, leaving water sitting in the pan, though! Probably the same person who plumbed the hot and cold lines backwards :)

Well, I think what I'll do is extend and move that drip line directly to the drain, bypassing the pan. I'll shopvac out the pan, and connect the water lines to the correct (hot/cold) ports. Finally, I'll check on my local code requirements for which side the shutoff valve should be on (interesting point, James!)

Thanks everyone for the help! I had never seen such a strange thing before, and assumed there must be some logical reason for it. Clearly there wasn't :)

[Doug Sewell]

Water in the pan usually just drains outside the house. There should be a elbow pointed down at the end of the pipe so if draining hot water you won't get burned by the water getting spayed out of the pipe.
Doug

[Doug Sewell]

But the pan should be empty if the WH is working correctly.
Doug

[Frank Hagan]

But the pan should be empty if the WH is working correctly.
Doug

No, evidently the pan under the water heater goes to a floor drain that has to be kept wet. Its common to use a drip line to keep the trap in the floor drain wet. In this case, it looks like the contractor used the water heater drain pan as the "transfer station" to keep the trap wet, but because of the way the drain line exits the pan, there's always water in it too.

There are two issues here. One, that's a stupid way to do it. Two, you may not be able to connect that dripper line directly to the drain. Code normally requires an air gap between the dripper line and the drain. So to get rid of the wet pan under your water heater, you may need to install an additional pipe to the drain and provide an air gap between the dripper line and the pipe.

Which pipe gets hot when the heater is firing? The pipe on our right, as we're facing the water heater, is the cold water inlet, isn't it? I'm embarrassed to ask (I used to work for a subsidiary of Bradford White, but we built boilers, not tank type water heaters).

[Dan Friedrichs]

Frank,

That's exactly right. "That's a stupid way to do it" is a very accurate description of my entire experience with this house :) You'd think a national builder who's building ~200 houses that are nearly identical would have employed at least one intelligent plumber to notice this....

Currently, the pipe on the left is hot water out and the one on the right is cold water in. This is incorrect, though, as the tank is labeled "Cold" on the left and "hot" on the right.

[Brian Elfert]

This sounds kinda like the plumber who plumbed my new house seven years ago.

There was a whole section of the house over the garage not finished including a bathroom. I finished the space last year. The plumber had roughed in the drains and stubbed out the water lines.

I hooked everything up and was adjusting the water level in the toilet. The water in the toilet was hot! The bozo had stubbed in the cold water on the left and the hot water on the right!

I couldn't test this in advance as the shutoff valves in the finished space had to be left off until the new space was finished and heated. It was a bit of a pain to fix, but could have been a lot worse.

[Al Willits]

Hot and cold on the water heater are only a reference for the dip tube, they are interchangable, if the cold water inlet would make installtion harder because of the side its on, you can put the dip tube in the other hole and it'll work fine, plumber shold have noted that...if that's what they did.

The exception to that may be Bradford White as their anode rod on some models is located in the hot water outlet and not sure if they can be reversed.

fwiw here in Minn the shut off is on the cold water side, hard to change out a water heater with it on the outlet side, and shutting off water at the water meter isn't the perfered way.

Al

[David G Baker]

Brian E.
Having the hot water plumbed to your toilet is a good thing especially in cold country, it stops the major sweating that toilet tanks can do when the warm surrounding air contacts the freshly flushed toilet tank when it is filled with very cold water. The only way around the sweating is to insulate your toilet's tank.
Before I insulated mine I had water almost running off of the sweating tank.

[jeremy levine]

Brian E.
Having the hot water plumbed to your toilet is a good thing especially in cold country, it stops the major sweating that toilet tanks can do when the warm surrounding air contacts the freshly flushed toilet tank when it is filled with very cold water. The only way around the sweating is to insulate your toilet's tank.
Before I insulated mine I had water almost running off of the sweating tank. They make mixing values for this so you don't have to fill the tank with hot water. Come to think of it on a cold day it might be nice :)

[mike holden]

Dan,

you said: "but did hire a reputable inspector, who found nothing wrong."

Ummm, no you didnt!

If he was reputable, he has insurance for missing things like this. You should contact his firm and file a claim.

Mike

[Lee Schierer]

I would definitely speak to the inspector.

With regard to relocating the drip line. I'm not familiar with these types of valves, but be sure you leave an air gap in your new connection to the drain. You don't want the dripper to suck sewer water back into your water system shold you lose water pressure for any reason. A hard piped connection to the floor drain could create this hazard.

[Eric DeSilva]

The water in the toilet was hot! The bozo had stubbed in the cold water on the left and the hot water on the right!

In the midst of this cold spell, I'm thinking a toilet that is heated might have some comfort benefits early in the morning...

[Dan Friedrichs]

Follow up:

It occurs to me that the reason the hot and cold lines were switched, and the reason the shut-off valve and dripper were on the hot line, was because the lines were crossed after they went through the closet wall. This is now sheetrocked in, so there was no way to fix it properly.


Just to make absolutely sure, I pulled out the dip tube and verified that the port labeled "cold" was, in fact, "cold". Then I cut out the "flex" copper lines, and replaced them with solid copper, ran to the correct ports this time :)

I understand that a builder in a hurry might have made this mistake, even though it does seem like a pretty shoddy thing to do. But what really angers me about it is that someone lived in this house for 7 years without noticing! It seems like too many people these days think buying a house requires no intelligence or effort on their part at all....