15" Delta Planer "MOTOR ON TOP": Is it worth the extra bucks?

[Tom Overthere]

I think the Grizzly G0453 15" planer is what I need, EXCEPT that I always thought having the "motor on top" was a better idea, as it keeps the bed and in/outfeed tables stationary (I'm tall and would like to keep from bending down too much).

I was reading the sales blurb on Delta's 22-790x, which has the motor on top - but also costs about $1,350 (compared to the Griz currently at $950 with free shipping). The Delta description states: "It's "motor-on-top" design saves you time by eliminating the need to move infeed and outfeed rollers every time you make a cut."

Using the Griz (with motor below) dontcha just crank the bed up 1/16" for each pass and feed in the lumber...? Assuming the Griz in/outfeed rollers are mounted in its bed, what extra time/effort is involved in "moving the rollers every time you make a cut"?

The Delta has:
1) "motor on top"
2) extended/fold-down roller tables (made possible by the stationary bed)
3) 5-year warranty
4) weighs about 200 lbs less (which is a plus in my unique situation)
5) but does not appear to have a roller base.

Would YOU pay the extra $400 for the Delta?

Also, I read that other companies market the "same" OEM planer under other names.
Does anybody know of a less-expensive version?
Yeah, I DO like the motor-on-top-and-stationary-bed approach...

Link to Delta 22-790x planer
http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17887#

[Ed Labadie]

Motor on top design requires you to remove it (motor) for knife changes. Unless Delta has found a way around this.......

Ed

[Fred Hargis]

I have the Delta 15" and that's exactly the reason I bought it (motor on top). You don't remove the motor to change blades, rather you tip it forward to make clearance. That aside, I've now had it for almost 6 years and have found the "advantage" of stationary tables to be pretty much a figment of my imagination. But then, I don't plane too much wood over 8' long. Couple that with the fact that several of the planers today have optional spiral cutter heads, I think I would buy based on that, as opposed to the stationary table. But that's just me.

[Tom Overthere]

Motor on top design requires you to remove it (motor) for knife changes. Unless Delta has found a way around this.......Ed WHOA...! Thanks, Ed. I hadn't considered that.

I just read Fred's post...so it looks like Delta DID figure out at workaround. Ah, those clever Chinese!

[Tom Overthere]

...I've now had it for almost 6 years and have found the "advantage" of stationary tables to be pretty much a figment of my imagination.Can you elaborate, Fred?

I figured I could mount a top-motor planer on a "tall" shop-built roller stand, and make my own removeable in-out tables - which wouldn't have to be raised up and up and up as I take progressive passes...

I'd be interested to know what's NOT working for you, or what about the arrangement is not proving to be helpful to you - BECAUSE I'D REALLY LIKE TO SAVE THAT EXTRA $400 :D

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tom, my previous planer was a General 14", now I have a Hammer A3-31.

Both of these planers have the moveable bed/fixed head design.

I never used external infeed/outfeed rollers with the General, and it worked just fine with long material for 20 years.

I may purchase table extensions for the Hammer, however once again they wouldn't be external or need any adjustment.

A friend of mine has a King Industrial 15 inch planer that looks identical to the Delta machines I've seen.

I change his planer blades out for him every year or so, and the top mounted motor does indeed pivot away enough to allow the changing of knives.

If you're tall the moving bed design will be at a higher height most of the time, than the stationary bed type.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. As to your question about Delta VS Grizzly, you should ask to see if people have owned both brands and can compare them for quality of machine.

[Fred Hargis]

Can you elaborate, Fred?


I'd be interested to know what's NOT working for you, or what about the arrangement is not proving to be helpful to you - BECAUSE I'D REALLY LIKE TO SAVE THAT EXTRA $400 :D

I'll try...in those 6 years I haven't once used separate infeed/outfeed tables with it. I think it goes back to the lumber I'm planing....I've never done (that I can remember) anything over 8', and a lot of stuff is shorter. I've been able to handle that by catching it myself as it comes out of the planer. My planer has the factory infeed/outfeed rollers which give it a total "bed" of about 64", and that seems to be enough that I haven't needed anything else. So I guess it's not that somethings not working for me, its just that a circumstance I envisioned (using infeed/oufeed stands all the time) didn't materialize. So I choose the top motor for a reason that didn't exist. For the record, I really like this planer....but I would rather either: 1.) save $400, or 2.) get the spiral head. At this point I have what I have, and am set...but I may still add the spiral head. I should add, if your sure your will be using the extra IF/OF tables, this style is the one to have for the reasons you mentioned earlier

[Wade Lippman]

4) weighs about 200 lbs less (which is a plus in my unique situation)


Can't answer your actual question... but I would not make a choice on the basis of reported weights.
From my experience they can easily be off by 100 pounds.
(besides, the heavier stationary tool is usually the better one)

[Tom Overthere]

A friend of mine has a King Industrial 15 inch planer that looks identical to the Delta machines I've seen. Hey, Rod. Thanks for that. I'll root around...


I change his planer blades out for him every year or so, and the top mounted motor does indeed pivot away enough to allow the changing of knives. Thanks for that, too.


If you're tall the moving bed design will be at a higher height most of the time, than the stationary bed type. And again, THANKS. Man, that "experience thing" sure comes in handy... I'm gonna have to stock up :D


P.S. As to your question about Delta VS Grizzly, you should ask to see if people have owned both brands and can compare them for quality of machine. I ask sooooo many "pre-purchase" questions here already. I don't want to wear out my welcome.

I'm attempting to "set up shop" in the literal sense. Making big expenditures (big for me, anyway) for machines that weigh TONS, at what may be the outset of a crushing decade of world-wide economic depression (:eek:!!!!!!!) has me sweating bullets.

I truly appreciate all the advice, and ask you guys to bear with me. I've almost come to "my big conclusions"... Then you'r in for a slew of "HowTo" questions, like "How can I glue my left index finger back on...?"

[Tom Overthere]

Can't answer your actual question... but I would not make a choice on the basis of reported weights.
From my experience they can easily be off by 100 pounds.
(besides, the heavier stationary tool is usually the better one)I hear you, Wade. But I figure most of the add'l Griz weight is in the base where the motor is mounted, and maybe in the apparatus for transferring power from the motor up to the cutter.

The MOTOR-ON-TOP seems to me to be a more efficient design in several regards...

[Paul Johnstone]

The Delta description states: "It's "motor-on-top" design saves you time by eliminating the need to move infeed and outfeed rollers every time you make a cut."


I'm assuming that Delta means if you use additional roller stands or whatever (not attached to the planer), then you can keep them at the same setting.

As for Delta vs Grizz, that is your personal call. I don't want to get involved in another Grizz vs. Brand X discussion. I'd buy the Delta, but that's my own preference.

[Tom Overthere]

I'll try...in those 6 years I haven't once used separate infeed/outfeed tables with it. ... should add, if your sure your will be using the extra IF/OF tables, this style is the one to have for the reasons you mentioned earlierThank you for the deeper insight, Fred. I'm NOT sure about IF/OF at this point, so probably won't go the $400 "on a hunch".

[Tom Overthere]

A friend of mine has a King Industrial 15 inch planer that looks identical to the Delta machines I've seen. Rod ==
I Googled the King Ind suggestion. Appears to be Canadian (as do you :D) and kinda hard to find "down here". I did find a US source (special order only) for $1,239 plus SH. Better to invest in the Delta nameplate for the sake of resale potential, me thinks.

A QUESTION FOR A CANADIAN: Do you have any idea how rough lumber prices compare between Canada and the US? I'll bet you have a lot greater "supply", so do you enjoy lower prices in general?

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod ==
I Googled the King Ind suggestion. Appears to be Canadian (as do you :D) and kinda hard to find "down here". I did find a US source (special order only) for $1,239 plus SH. Better to invest in the Delta nameplate for the sake of resale potential, me thinks.

A QUESTION FOR A CANADIAN: Do you have any idea how rough lumber prices compare between Canada and the US? I'll bet you have a lot greater "supply", so do you enjoy lower prices in general?

Hi Tom, yes I'm Canadian.

I purchase my lumber at Century Mill in Stoufville, which is just north of Toronto. You can check prices at www.centurymill.com (http://www.centurymill.com) , what you can't check by internet is their fantastic customer service.

I have to tell you Tom, after owning General equipment ( the real stuff), I purchased a Hammer A3-31 planer/jointer and wish I'd done it earlier.

I don't know what your financial situation is Tom, however I think you should seriously consider a MiniMax or Hammer combination planer. Superior quality, superior performance and capacity, in a space saving design.

Regards, Rod.

[Ron Bontz]

Well I have had my DC 380 Delta for about 15 years. A long time anyway. Blade changes are not a problem. It has planed a lot of lumber and no problems ever. I do however always plane in finish mode.:)

[Kevin Barnett]

I upgraded from the Delta 13" 220v machine (same design as what you are looking at) with the motor on top to the Griz 0453X. I prefer to lower center of gravity, the higher beds most of the time, and the rollers for returning and resting plained lumber. I wouldn't pay a higher price for the Delta. For the price difference, you can add carbide blades which are well worth it.

[george wilson]

Maybe I'm nit picking,but from a machine engineering standpoint,it is better if the motor is isolated from the cut. This matters a lot on metal lathes, and especially on jig boring machines where quality of finish cut,and very high accuracy is needed. My Bridgewood 15" planer is the one with motor in the base. It planes so smooth,you have to really look to see the cut marks. Mine is TAIWAN made. Bought in the 80's. The newer ones are just about Chinese made. May not be of the same quality.

[Peter Quinn]

I have the DC-380, its second hand, about 14 years old? Has fold down extension tables, does a good job, blade changes are not a problem, the motor pivots easily out of the way by loosening one bolt. Not sure I would pay more for the motor on top design though, I think it is meaningless. Some of the best planers I have used are fixed head, moving table designs. Most industrial planers have a fixed head, its a proven design.

Planers move slow enough that I can switch sides and feed/catch my own work without any additional infeed or outfeed support, and given that most 15" planers have maybe a 6" travel its not much of a bend from highest to lowest in any event, for me another mute point. Given that you will use the planer mostly over the range of 0"-3", you could build a table to catch boards as they drop from the planer table, or a rolling cart to help get large pieces into the planer if you handle many of those for whichever planer you choose.

I bought the delta for $320 used and have had no problems with it so for me the decision was easy. If I were buying new I'd rather have a spiral head than a top mounted motor any day, or at least have an extra $400 in my pocket.

[Joe Chritz]

The Grizzly unit I have seems to be a decent machine. It will hog off material without a burp and was set up very well from the factory.

I can't see any real world benefit to a top motor design that would have me leaning toward buying one. If it was a real US built unit for an extra $400 for me it would be a no brainer but that isn't the case.

I would likely use the $400 for some other tool or put it towards a spiral head.

Joe

[Clint deal]

I have a North State 15" with the motor on top. I bought it from a dealer and it is a Delta Knock off. It was sitting beside a delta top motor and the 2 were identical except brand of motor. Same casting marks and everything. Mine was about $700 Cheaper.
I wanted the top motor for the same reason. I set up mu work table the same height as my tables saw, planer and shaper in case I needed to use it for an in-feed or out-feed table.
Looking back I don't think I would have paid more for the motor on top.
clint

[Chip Lindley]

I'm the proud owner of an *original* Rockwell/Invicta RC33 of '80s vintage. The motor is on Top. Any utility of having a fixed bed, and a travelling motor is really over rated. Although I have had great results with the old RC33, a bed of fixed height has never meant anything to me.

I have never found fixed extension tables to be of any real use, because to depend on such would mean snipe on the final 3 inches of stock! I man-handle ALL my stock. After stock is fed in, and about half way through, I move to the outfeed side. For a final finish cut, as the board end approaches the cutter head I push down on the board with right hand, and lift up with my left, bowing the board slightly to hold it hard against the table as it leaves the cutter head. This effectively prevents ANY snipe on the board end!! Lots of armstrong work, but good results. An outfeed table would only get in the way.

My top-mount motor has little paint left on it from sliding the board back across for another pass. Those top rollers would come in really handy for this instead. All in All, I would rather have rollers topside, than the motor!!

[Tyler Davis]

it sounds like people are saying a fixed head / moveable table design doesn't do well on long stock - can someone please elaborate?

I bought a Grizzly 15" movable table from a guy who claimed he couldn't plane long stock with it. I've set it up and run 8' boards through with little to no snipe

what's the problem?

[Chip Lindley]

Tyler, I don't see the previous owner's point. You would have to ask him! The only issue with a moveable table, is matching the height of an extension table to the planer's moveable table. Any other problem he had was probably due to his method of using the machine. Perhaps he just let a long board dangle out of the planer as it exited. I am sure with no support, the snipe was unacceptable.

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm the proud owner of an *original* Rockwell/Invicta RC33 of '80s vintage. The motor is on Top. Any utility of having a fixed bed, and a travelling motor is really over rated. Although I have had great results with the old RC33, a bed of fixed height has never meant anything to me.

I have never found fixed extension tables to be of any real use, because to depend on such would mean snipe on the final 3 inches of stock! I man-handle ALL my stock. After stock is fed in, and about half way through, I move to the outfeed side. For a final finish cut, as the board end approaches the cutter head I push down on the board with right hand, and lift up with my left, bowing the board slightly to hold it hard against the table as it leaves the cutter head. This effectively prevents ANY snipe on the board end!! Lots of armstrong work, but good results. An outfeed table would only get in the way.

My top-mount motor has little paint left on it from sliding the board back across for another pass. Those top rollers would come in really handy for this instead. All in All, I would rather have rollers topside, than the motor!!


Hi Chip, I think the motor over/under is a red herring as I've owned two planers with the motor under.

The General has snipe, the Hammer doesn't so the snipe issue seems to be more of a roller/pressure bar/cutterhead spacing and design relationship than whether you have the motor on top or extension tables fitted.

I wish I had the General still in the shop so I could see what's different between the two machines, (No it's not the price, they're both the same).

Regards, Rod.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

might be Sunhill. They have a 15" with a 3hp motor on top sale priced at $695. Don't know much about the machine but it is a great price.

[Jeff Miller]

Can you elaborate, Fred?

I figured I could mount a top-motor planer on a "tall" shop-built roller stand, and make my own removeable in-out tables - which wouldn't have to be raised up and up and up as I take progressive passes...

I'd be interested to know what's NOT working for you, or what about the arrangement is not proving to be helpful to you - BECAUSE I'D REALLY LIKE TO SAVE THAT EXTRA $400 :D




This is how I raised my planer up and now it's the same height as my table saw,my small RAS,and my drum sander whitch can all be used for infeed/outfeed tables.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/DEWALT%20RAS/KimsCradle024.jpg


JEFF:D