Bamboo countertop advise & ?

[Jason Perrott]

Hello,

I am looking at a job installing 1.5 inch thick slabs of bamboo as counter tops.
I have zero experience with bamboo. Does it glue up well? take biscuits? I am sure it has a great deal of tearout when cut, but I can work around that. How does it take stains?

Any advice on finishing? They want a golden oak color with a conversion varnish. Just talked to mohawk finishing products and they recommend the ultra penetrating stain followed by their conversion varnish. Has anyone used their products? I always use water based so this is a learning experience for me:o

TIA
Jason

[Joe Pelonio]

I have limited experience with bamboo, having done laser engraved awards and some veneer inlay work with it. You'll be surprised at how much like wood it is to cut and finish, but I have only worked with up to 1/2".

I have used several different Minwax oil stains and the fast-drying clear poly with good results.

This is from the manufacturer that I use, on installation & finishing:
http://www.teragren.com/ad/installation_panels_veneer.html

[Jason Perrott]

Thanks Joe!

I looked over the info and it sounds like the machining of the material will be approx. like wood, so im good there.

Ran across a product called zinser amber shellac, looks like it might work. Does shellac form a good water/chemical barrier? Should it be used on a restaurant countertop? Will it have "white rings" under sweating glasses of water or alchohol?

I should ask these ?s in the finishing forum, but trying to get this figured out soon!

Thanks all,
Jason

[Joe Jensen]

Thanks Joe!

I looked over the info and it sounds like the machining of the material will be approx. like wood, so im good there.

Ran across a product called zinser amber shellac, looks like it might work. Does shellac form a good water/chemical barrier? Should it be used on a restaurant countertop? Will it have "white rings" under sweating glasses of water or alchohol?

I should ask these ?s in the finishing forum, but trying to get this figured out soon!

Thanks all,
Jason

Shellac is not a good finish for a restaurant. Shellac will develop white rings quickly with alcohol. Poly is the best for counter tops, super durable and water/alcohol resistant.

[Jeff Duncan]

The first thing you need to know is that Bamboo is a generic term for hundreds of different species. So one guy who might use it and find it hard as nails and good for counters. Someone else may find it to be too soft. Best bet is to get yourself a sample from the supplier your planning on buying your material from.
I wouldn't bother with biscuits for a top, they'll just take more time to get it together and won't add much to a 1-1/2" top anyway. Also make sure you use a water resistant glue.
Shellac will give you a nice depth, good color, and seal the wood but should only be used for that. You'll still need CV varnish over it for protection.

good luck,
JeffD

[george wilson]

Bamboo is too soft for good use as flooring,though they do offer it as such. The only hard part is the outer skin,and that is gone. There was an article in Fine Woodworking a while back that talked of the difficulty of working bamboo.Now,I can't recall what it said.Apparently problematical to work,though.I guess you could saw it and sand it. Think it's hard to plane. Maybe someone could remember the facts.

You had better use polyurethane on a counter top. No kind of shellac is going to stand water,or hot stuff. I'll tell you what is hard as blazes is the gel wipe on polyurethane that Klingspor sells in their catalog. I can't recall the brand (big help here),but the container was mostly white. I used it on our upstairs oak flooring from 1949,pretty sad looking. It did a great job of making the billions of varnish scratches vanish,but I was amazed at how hard it got. It is easily smoothly wiped on.

Don't forget,bamboo is only a grass.

[Ben Martin]

Bamboo is too soft for good use as flooring,though they do offer it as such. The only hard part is the outer skin,and that is gone.

Depends on what type of bamboo flooring you are talking about. Vertical or horzontal isn't very durable. But I have 750sf of Teragen Synergy in my house, it is a plywood type product. You can wack it with a hammer and it won't even dent, pretty impressive stuff.

[Bradley Schmidt]

We supply bamboo boards to many kitchen manufacturers in South Africa. Bamboo makes for an excellent counter top for the following reasons:


It's harder than Red Oak
It's very tolerant of moisture & recovers well when water damaged
It'll take a lot of different types of coatings evenly
It machines well, so edging is no problem


Most popular for counter top coatings in South Africa is oil, but some manufacturers use poly's.

Here is an example FYI

http://www.oriental-bamboo.co.za/Images/bamboo-kitchen-counter.jpg

Regards

Bradley - Oriental Bamboo

www.oriental-bamboo.co.za

[Joe Jensen]

I'd like to try working some of the bamboo slab stock. Does anyone know where one can buy it? I am in the Phoenix area and I haven't seen any at the hardwoods dealers.

[Jason Perrott]

Here is a follow up to my questions...
Bought sweet slab bamboo in 26" wide by 96" lengths from local supplier, it was carmelized in color. I used General finishes high performance water based poly in satin. This stuff sprays great straight from the can, and is very durable when cured. The slabs were 170 lbs each, very substantial!

I used my ez smart rails and made easy work of the dimensioning, even when I had to scribe to wall and change angle of joint by 3/16 to zero (had to leave 42" walkway for code on the walkway, walls not parallel to stub wall, ect..)- could not have been easier! Take the tool to the wood is the way to go, I had no blade marks or burns at all, I could not have done that by myself on my table saw!:cool:

Now to the photos:

[Ryan Eldridge]

THat is a sweet looking top, good job

[David DeCristoforo]

Just remember that this is a fairly new product that has not yet had a chance to withstand "the test of time". The manufacturers and suppliers will naturally have an answer for every objection but at this point, I never use bamboo without having the customer sign a waiver absolving me of any responsibility for the long term durability of the material. Basically it says if you want me to use bamboo on your project, I will. But don't call me if you have problems with it down the road or, at least, be aware that I'm going to charge you for whatever fix might be needed.

[Jason Perrott]

David,
I am not too worried about this material, it is substantial and my supplier has been selling it for three years now without complication.

I would like to say that I have had more problems with chinese plywood than I care to admit, wont even touch the stuff anymore. Only USA made for this guy.

There are so many factors in all materials we use as woodworkers, everything moves with the climate changes, it is to be expected and planned for accordingly. That, imho, is what separates the quality from the crap.

Jason

[John Sanford]

Here is a follow up to my questions...
Bought sweet slab bamboo in 26" wide by 96" lengths from local supplier, it was carmelized in color. I used General finishes high performance water based poly in satin. This stuff sprays great straight from the can, and is very durable when cured. The slabs were 170 lbs each, very substantial!

I used my ez smart rails and made easy work of the dimensioning, even when I had to scribe to wall and change angle of joint by 3/16 to zero (had to leave 42" walkway for code on the walkway, walls not parallel to stub wall, ect..)- could not have been easier! Take the tool to the wood is the way to go, I had no blade marks or burns at all, I could not have done that by myself on my table saw!:cool:

Now to the photos:


How thick were the slabs, and how much did they cost? Such a slab may make a pretty handy workbench top! :cool:

[Bradley Schmidt]

Just remember that this is a fairly new product that has not yet had a chance to withstand "the test of time". The manufacturers and suppliers will naturally have an answer for every objection but at this point, I never use bamboo without having the customer sign a waiver absolving me of any responsibility for the long term durability of the material. Basically it says if you want me to use bamboo on your project, I will. But don't call me if you have problems with it down the road or, at least, be aware that I'm going to charge you for whatever fix might be needed.

David, your caution is a good thing.

I'm a bamboo boards supplier in South Africa. I have paid dearly in expensive "school fees" :( to learn what it takes to manufacture a good quality and durable bamboo board. It took a number of years, numerous trips to China, visiting countless bamboo factories, to eventually figure out the "ingredients" of a quality bamboo board product (http://www.oriental-bamboo.co.za/products/eco-logic-bamboo-boards.html).

I've developed a couple of simple tests that will help anyone quickly get a good idea of the long term durability of a bamboo board product.

Obtain samples from your local suppliers and run one of the following tests;

High speed test - run the untreated sample through a dishwasher cycle (hot water)
Low speed test - soak the sample in a bucket of water for a few weeks or longer


Here are some samples that I've run through similar tests:

Soak in water for 5 weeks:

http://www.oriental-bamboo.co.za/images/soaked-bamboo-board-samples.jpg

Sample 1 - Control sample - supplier A
Sample 2 - Supplier A uses cheap glue to laminate the board + immature raw bamboo material --> see how the bamboo strips have bowed excessively
Sample 3 - Supplier B uses quality glue to laminate the board + mature raw bamboo material --> notice that this sample has not warped at all
Sample 4 - Control sample - supplier B


[B][U]Run board sample through a dishwasher cycle

http://www.oriental-bamboo.co.za/images/dishwasher-bamboo-board-samples.jpg

Sample 1 - Bamboo board sample was unspecified in terms of glue, press rates, moisture before and after pressing, etc. Notice how the sample has delaminated and bowed after the dishwasher test

Sample 2 - Bamboo board sample was specified by the supplier (http://www.oriental-bamboo.co.za/faq/why-eco-logic-bamboo.html/2) in terms of glue, press rates, moisture before and after pressing, manufacturing processes, etc. Notice that the sample is intact and no delamination or splitting has occurred.

I have also posted a YouTube video on a dishwasher test of bamboo boards that we did with a local DIY TV personality who used our bamboo boards for his kitchen and BIC's - you can see it here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q2hBTQzjfU

Why do I think that these simple tests are a good indicator of durability?


The glues that meet strict European & USA standards are well designed and perform to manufacturer specifications. Manufacturers that use these glues and follow the glue manufacturers preparation guidelines will typically offer an extended warranty for delamination of the product. These tests stress the glues - cheaper glues do not typically stand up well.
Immature or old (the bamboo poles need to be harvested at 4-5 years of age) raw material will tend to split or bow excessively if exposed to constant moisture. The correct species of bamboo raw material, that has been allowed to mature correctly is less susceptible to this excessive bowing and splitting.
As with all timber, there are always variations in hardness due to environmental conditions, harvesting & curing practices. The correct species of bamboo, harvested at maturity and cured correctly will perform well. Manufacturers that take shortcuts on glues and manufacturing processes also tend to take shortcuts in their selection and processing of the raw material.


Quality bamboo boards are a great product suitable for many of the typical uses of timber. As they are supplied in standard pressed board sizes (less wastage, manufacturing predictability, lower preparation times, etc) and exhibit very similar characteristics to commonly used timbers, they make for an ideal "best of both worlds" option.

I hope this helps filter out the reputable manufacturers and suppliers.