Festool DC alternative for Festool sander?

[Dave Haughs]

First off I've been reading the claims of greatness and I just splurged for a Festool ETS 125 EQ ROS this weekend. I left the store feeling dirty for spending that much on a sander but as soon as I got it home and broke it in I felt very satisfied in my purchase. My old Porter Cable 5" ROS fills the shop with dust even with a vacuum attached and I got to the point I HATED sanding because of that. With the Festool I can leave the cars parked in the shop (my wife thinks it's a garage :p) and I can even wear my clothes again after sanding.

So onto my new problem. The dust collection is amazing, even without the vac hooked up there is little to no dust in the air. With the vac hooked up there is none, however my shopvac is a bit too powerfull for sander and it slows sanding way down since the little guy can't overcome all that suction. The other problem with my vacuum is that if I use the high efficiency filters on it they plug up too fast with sawdust since I use it to clean off tools and clean the floor, when I use the "reusable" paper filters they sometimes will fall off in the midst of use then my air is worse than it was with the old sander. The suction I could fix with a bleed off I suppose but the filter issue I can't do much about, though a plugged up filter would mean less suction so maybe thats the way to go. The other annoyance is the plastic hose that isn't very "workable". I do have a dedicated dust collection system and I was considering tieing into that with a bleedoff so I don't starve the motor on the DC and I can tame the suction at the sander. I know there is a difference in vacuums and dust collectors but for this little guy it needs very little suction to do the job so this seemed like a good cheep solution. Lack of portability is the only downside.

I also wouldn't mind getting the noise down so I could work after the little one goes to bed.

I guess my delima leaves me with a few questions from others experience

1) is there a nice alternative to the festool vacuum at a much lower cost?

2) anyone tied into their DC, if so has it worked out for you?

3) What are some good alternatives to the festool hose? $60 seems steep for vacuum hose but its nice and flexible.

I was impressed with the festool vac in the store but I can't justify that kind of money on a vacuum. I suppose ideally I'd like a small portable vacuum incase I want to sand inside or somwhere besides my garage, but I want it to be as quiet as I can get, then use the vacuum I have now for what I intended it for, cleanup.

Anyone tried any of the really small cheap shop vacs for this? Are they still loud?

I guess I am just looking for suggestions/ideas that have worked for others before I spend time/money trying different things.

[Joe Jensen]

The FEIN vacs are quieter than the Festool with the same suction, and cheaper. They have a small one that would be fine for a sander. I don't think they have variable speed so you might have to do something about that. My wife had an old canister vac that had a hole in the hose with a slip collar over it. When you needed less suction you would just slide the collar a little to let some air in through this hole or bypass. It wouldn't be hard to do something like that on a coupler to the hose.

On second thought, to save some money, try the bypass idea now with your existing vac. The simplest but a little hokey would be to drill a hole in the hose near a coupler. Once you find the ideal size, have the hole open for sanding, and put duct tape over for other vac uses. Not how I'd do it, but it's a free way to go.

[Dave Haughs]

On second thought, to save some money, try the bypass idea now with your existing vac. The simplest but a little hokey would be to drill a hole in the hose near a coupler. Once you find the ideal size, have the hole open for sanding, and put duct tape over for other vac uses. Not how I'd do it, but it's a free way to go.


yeah I was thinking about doing that and getting a better hose for my current vac, but the more I would like to find something quieter. Maybe just a smaller one.:confused: I can use my dust collector for cleaning the floor.

Maybe I just need to suck it up and buy the festool hose and adapt it to my shop vac with a bleedoff of some sort.

[Joe Jensen]

I have used Fein, and WAP (now Alto) extensively. I prefer the WAP I have to the Fein and Festool. I like quiet.

WAP 56db
Fein 59db
Festool 76db

If possible listen to a Fein and Festool at the same place. I don't know what you have for stores, but there are three within a few mile of my house that sell both Fein and Festool. The Festool is part of their system with nice accessories and the Systainers clip on top. The Fein is more quiet and cheaper...joe

[Dave Haughs]

That's the other side of it. I don't really "need" a new vacuum, mine works, just too well. I could get away with $60 festool hose and vent it like we talked about above, but if I am spending $60 it makes me look around at alternatives. Quieter would be fantastic. I often have to quit working on things at 8pm or sooner and take breaks on the weekend when its nap time because my daughter's bedroom is over the garage (seemed like a good idea at the time :rolleyes:). So usually at that point powertools are out of the question, so weekdays I can't get anything done by the time I get home and get settled and set up. But if I could sand quietly then it would be a different story. The sander itself is fairly quiet, for a sander. So that is the hidden reason I am looking at alternatives. I wonder if there is a small portable shop vac that is fairly quiet of if the fein is the cheapest.

What is the fein hose like? easy to work with? (compared toa shop vac hose)

[Joe Jensen]

The Fein, WAP, and Festool all use a similar crush proof hose. I bought that style from Sears for my Rigid vac only it's 2 1/2" diameter. Clearly to large for the Festool. I bought a Festool hose to use with the WAP vac. I think that hose is more like $90 that $60 however.

[Dave Haughs]

The Fein, WAP, and Festool all use a similar crush proof hose. I bought that style from Sears for my Rigid vac only it's 2 1/2" diameter. Clearly to large for the Festool. I bought a Festool hose to use with the WAP vac. I think that hose is more like $90 that $60 however.


Good to know. They have two festool hoses. I did look at that. There is the green and the cheaper grey, the difference is the green is grounded and more $$$. I think for now I am just going to splurge on the festool hose and see where it gets me.

[Joe Scharle]

Here's my $15.00 solution. Rigid soft hose from HD connects snuggly over 3 turns of blue tape.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/970/Festool_Vac_Hose.JPG

[Dave Haughs]

Here's my $15.00 solution. Rigid soft hose from HD connects snuggly over 3 turns of blue tape.




With the 150 do you find that the vacuum suction slows it down at all like the 125 does? just curious. I'll have to go to home depot and check out the rigid soft hose:D

[Joe Scharle]

I don't think anything can slow the 150, but the soft hose is self limiting somewhat in that it tends to collapse slightly when the sander is working. I connect it to my Fein. However, the suction is sufficient to pick up the dust; Except when prepping a board with 60 grit for the planner, it throws out the big pieces!

[Dave Haughs]

Maybe I just bought the wrong sander then and I should take it back for the 150/3 then I wouldn't have to worry about my suction problem :D

Just kidding. I'd like to have the bigger one one day in addition to this one, but the 125 fits my need a bit more right now. I get myself in trouble with sanders that take too much too fast and a small sander will fit in the big places but a big sander doesn't fit in the small places...

I've got some ideas now. I do have the tappered fein adapter that costs $4 so I can connect my shop vac hose, I just don't like how rigid it is. I'll play with some ideas and let you know what I come up with.

[Paul Johnstone]

Rigid makes shop vacs with noise reduction technology. Not as quite as the $200+ vacs, but much more quiet.

I have one of the Festool vacs, and frankly I am pretty unimpressed with it. There's been quality issues, such as the "automatic mode" failing intermittently and other problems. Also, they don't give you a real USA plug, there's a pigtail adapter which often comes unplugged (I had to tape mine together with duct tape). Overall, for something that claims to be the best vaccum, it is pretty disappointing, IMO.

[Dave Haughs]

Well I still have a noisy vac but I am at a point I am happy, other than the fact that I'd like to have more sanders now. :D

I just took and got another piece of shop vac hose and drilled 8 5/8" holes in it and ended up taping over two of them and its the perfect amount of suction.

I put a bag and a better filter in there so it can't blow out dust anymore if anyone cares. I can handle the noise level for now. I found if I lay extra hose on the work bench and clamp it or lay a weight over it so it stays up there it doesn't get caught and I don't need a boom.

[James Hart]

Dave,

I have several of the Festool green hoses. Got most of them when I picked up a bunch of used Festool stuff in one package.

Based on the situation you've described, i don't see that hose fixing any of the problems you're addressing. I also don't think you'll see much antistatic value when connecting it to a non-festool vac, but i could be wrong on that. Either way, the cheaper hose is fine.

Save your money for a quieter vac. Make sure it has variable suction so you can dial in the right amount.

Jim

[Wade Lippman]

My old Porter Cable 5" ROS fills the shop with dust even with a vacuum attached and I got to the point I HATED sanding because of that.

I don't know what you are doing, but my PC333 is completely dust free with a vacuum on it.

[Byron Trantham]

I have jsut the opposite of your situation. I have the PC 5" ROS and a Festool Vac. I made an adapter to connect the two. If I leave the Vac on "Hi" it will suck the ROS to the wood! Since the Festool has variale speed I turn it down to about half speed and Wa La - no dust and it runs smooth.

[Jason White]

I wonder if you could plug your vacuum into some type of box with a rheostat that would allow you to dial down the power, thereby dialing down the suction?? I've seen them for controlling router speeds, like this one...

http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?offerings_id=10760&keyword=router%20speed%20control&ne_ppc_id=776&ne_key_id=3423802&gclid=CImZ2r2pw5gCFQFvGgodSVoB1g&cookietest=1&gord=1

Any electrical engineer folks here who see a problem with this idea? Would it cause any damage to the vacuum's motor?

Jason


That's the other side of it. I don't really "need" a new vacuum, mine works, just too well. I could get away with $60 festool hose and vent it like we talked about above, but if I am spending $60 it makes me look around at alternatives. Quieter would be fantastic. I often have to quit working on things at 8pm or sooner and take breaks on the weekend when its nap time because my daughter's bedroom is over the garage (seemed like a good idea at the time :rolleyes:). So usually at that point powertools are out of the question, so weekdays I can't get anything done by the time I get home and get settled and set up. But if I could sand quietly then it would be a different story. The sander itself is fairly quiet, for a sander. So that is the hidden reason I am looking at alternatives. I wonder if there is a small portable shop vac that is fairly quiet of if the fein is the cheapest.

What is the fein hose like? easy to work with? (compared toa shop vac hose)

[Ben West]

If you're buying solely for DC during sanding, the discussion of which unit is the most quiet is meaningless. Any of the 3 models will be significantly quieter than the sander.

All of the "top-end" vac-type dust collectors are very quiet...much quieter than a shop-vac or equivalent. Because of this, IMO, many other considerations are much more important than the noise level produced.

I have the Festool CT33, and it's been great. I got it as part of a package deal with a RO150, which saved me some $$$. If I were to be buying again though, I'd certainly consider the Fein or some of the other better units. They all would meet my needs, so I probably would make my decision based on price, cost of bags, and customer service.

Happy buying!

[Bill Neely]

I bought a new style Fein Turbo III that has variable speed and a new rocker switch replacing the old two switch scheme which was a little bit Rube Goldberg-ish. I've been using a Festool non-static hose and it works great.

I haven't tried yet with the new Fein but CleanStream HEPA filters fit the old style Feins. Cost ~$30.00.

[Dave Haughs]

Welp, 6 5/8" holes in my hose was all it took to work perfect!