Vista Drivers

[Todd Welter]

Hello Folks. Before I ask my question, you have a very informative site here with a wealth of knowledge.

I'm running a VL-200 with corel X3. I just purchased a new pc with windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit. I just found out that there are no available drivers from universal for 64 bit computers. Has anyone ran into this problem and if so, is there a resolve for it? I could down grade to 32 bit, but would lose half the memory that came with the PC. Has anyone heard of a release for the 64 bit drivers? Once again, thank you for your help

[Mike Null]

Save yourself a lot of grief and exchange for a 32 bit machine.

Additonal memory is cheap.

[Dan Hintz]

Additonal memory is cheap.
Mike,

I think Todd's issue is the 32-bit OS will not recognize memory above 3GB... a 64-bit OS will recognize more memory than we could afford, so he stacked up with a few extra Gigs. If he switches OSs, he loses the use of the memory.




Sounds like we're heading back to the ol' DOS days of resident memory managers as we slowly move from 32- to 64-bit systems.

[Todd Welter]

That's it Mike, the pc came with 8 gig of memory, if I downgrade, I lose the top 4. I really don't understand how the 64 bit works, but that is where I get the additional memory. I can load the versalaser software, but it will not recognize the driver. It would be nice to utilize the memory while running several different programs. You would think that universal would come out with the driver soon with all of the 64-bit systems being sold.

[Dave Johnson29]

That's it Mike, the pc came with 8 gig of memory, if I downgrade, I lose the top 4. I really don't understand how the 64 bit works


Hi Todd,

The 32 v 64 works as 64 Bits allows a bigger number to be handled by the Operating System (OS). The largest number 32 Bits can deal with is 4,294,967,295 and 64 Bit max 18,446,744,073,709,551,615.

Each Byte in memory consists of 8 Bits and the OS has to know exactly where every Byte is so it numbers them 0 through to the max.

OK, having said that, I would doubt you will get much benefit from 64 v 32. When the OS reaches the limit of available on-board memory (your 4G in 32 Bit) it pages it out (and in) to the hard drive in a Page File (Virtual Memory). This then behaves exactly the same as the on-board memory. The cost is a little extra time because the hard drive is slower than the on-board memory.

However modern hard drives are really quick these days so that is not such big deal either.

Anyway the point is, if you are working on an image file that is bigger than 4G then the 64 Bit comes into play. There are of course caveats if you are running a lot of other programs simultaneously as they would eat into that 4G. But basically in normal use, I doubt you would ever sneak into that memory above 4G even if you had the driver.

There is a lot more to it than that but that's the basics, so my view would be to run in 32 Bit mode until there is a 64 Bit driver for the ULS. My guess is it will be a loooong time coming uinless 4+G .JPGs are the norm. :)

[Brad Knight]

That's it Mike, the pc came with 8 gig of memory, if I downgrade, I lose the top 4. I really don't understand how the 64 bit works, but that is where I get the additional memory.

Can't speak to the drivers, when or where...

But 'how'... Imagine your phone number. If you lived in a town of 10,000 a 5 digit phone number would be enough. 1,000,000, a 7 digit number would do. We use a 10 digit number for the entire US. So for every digit you add, the number of available numbers (think memory addresses) goes up exponentially.

Now increase isn't exactly the same between decimal and binary, but the idea is the same. 64 bits is more than just double... I think the decimal equivalent of the highest 32bit number is 4,294,967,295 and the highest 64 bit number is 18,446,744,073,709,599,999
That's a lot more phone numbers to play with.



Now if the driver isn't equipped to use a phone book that large, the OS can help out, but it has to jump through hoops to do it... and it doesn't always do it well or quickly.

**To my other geeky associates out here**
I know there is more going on, but I'm just trying to translate geek to English.

[Jim Watkins]

Anyone using an Epilog machine would need to use the Epilog 64bit beta driver. When I got my new machine, I had the same problem. Fortunately Epilog had a 64bit beta driver available.

Vista would NOT recognize the 32bit driver so it was unusuable. While on the phone with Epilog they explained that I would need to use the beta. They also said they have no plans to upgrade the 64bit driver anytime in the immediate future.

Take heed before upgrading your PC... The beta works fine, but since they are not upgrading it, it doesn't have the new functionality of the 32 bit upgrades.

[Mike Null]

64 bit systems are not new but they are also not compatible with many drivers and software. I converted files several years ago to 64 bit to increase storage as I recall.

Edit for correction--I converted 16 bit to FAT32.

Not being a pc geek I will defer to those who are but for the present it would seem like a 32 bit system makes sense.

[Scott Shepherd]

Is there no option in Vista 64 to run programs as 32 bit programs? Like using the option to run a specific file as Windows 95 or 98 Compatible in XP?

Is there no option to have it run as a 32 bit system entirely, without having to get the 32 bit version?

[Dan Hintz]

Dave, overall I agree with what you've said, re the lack of benefit of a 64-bit OS with the type of work we're doing. Even so, we are moving to a point in program complexity and data volume that 64-bit OSs will slowly become the norm... I imagine over the next 3-5 years you will see 32-bit OSs begin to look like 16-bit OSs look to us now.



Todd, Dave is right, the OS will swap out to the hard drive, so unless you're truly working with gigantic files (2GB+), there's going to be little benefit. Should you actually be working with such monstrosities, you could go with an SSD hard drive as your swap space drive. They'll have access times similar to RAM, so you'll hardly notice the difference to a system with twice the RAM. SSD prices have fallen sharply the last 6 months, and a multi-Gig unit can be had for several hundred $s. Worth the price if you're playing at the bleeding edge.



Steve, the option you mention is for executables only, not hardware-level drivers (unfortunately for us). Some 32-bit drivers will work on a 64-bit OS, but the closer the driver is to hardware the less chance it will have of working correctly. In our case, it's probably a no-go.

[Tim Bateson]

I have been testing Win7 Beta 32bit. I've reloaded the Win7 Beta with the 64bit version. Win7 32bit is far much FASTER then Vista, but Win7 64bit leaves all of the rest in the dust! With almost all machines being built now with 64bit processors, I'm not even sure Microsoft is going to release a 32bit version of Win7 when it hits the market.

Back to the subject - I can now agree that the 32bit drivers will not work on a 64bit system. Sorry, I had to prove it to myself. Even worse, Epilog's 64bit beta driver will not load to the Laser the new Firmware version just released.

I've sent my complaints to Epilog.

In today's world, 64bit will soon be indispensable & Epilog needs to get on the stick.

[Tim Bateson]

Dan, I strongly disagree. My testing with the 64bit says otherwise. On my Vista32bit, I use Photoshop and Corel every day and spend a lot of time waiting. However with Win7 64bit - same machine, these applications are lightning fast. Even PhotoGrav is very fast and runs much better then it does on Vista 32bit, without setting it to XP mode. Not only is there a big speed difference, my laptop runs around 20% cooler - although that may be partually due to Win7 vs Vista.
Once 64bit drivers are readily available the 32bit drivers will become unsupportable. I think that will happen sooner rather then later.

[Dan Hintz]

Dan, I strongly disagree. My testing with the 64bit says otherwise. On my Vista32bit, I use Photoshop and Corel every day and spend a lot of time waiting. However with Win7 64bit - same machine, these applications are lightning fast. Even PhotoGrav is very fast and runs much better then it does on Vista 32bit, without setting it to XP mode. Not only is there a big speed difference, my laptop runs around 20% cooler - although that may be partually due to Win7 vs Vista.
Once 64bit drivers are readily available the 32bit drivers will become unsupportable. I think that will happen sooner rather then later.

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, wouldn't you say? Vista is widely known (and admitted to even by high-level execs in MicroSoft's ranks) as practically a dog compared to what it was supposed to be. Win7 was designed to fix those issues, and it is what Vista should have been if they weren't so needy to kick out anything every couple of years to keep the money filling the coffers.

You can't say a 32-bit OS (Vista) is slow compared to a newer, more-optimized 64-bit OS (Win7) with any validity. Even the 32-bit version of Win7 is significantly faster than 32-bit Vista! Yes, there will be a speed increase moving to a 64-bit system (when the OS supports it) and working on large datasets (i.e., large images), but from a laser control driver standpoint, the benefit is zero. As we move into an age where the lasers use the computer as a control device (rather than having an on-board control system), I'm leary about processing much new info while the laser is working. On that note, I do my main processing on one machine (which will eventually move to a 64-bitter) and leave the laser control to a second, less powerful system (a 32-bitter).

As always, YMMV...

[Tim Bateson]

I agree, it's sort-of an oranges to orange juice comparison, but it's the only comparisons I could make. I'd like to hear from someone that does have both 32 & 64bit either XP or that dog Vista.

Isn't it sad though that we have to give up productivity to use our tools - lasers? The less time we have to wait for our software to startup, load, spin while sending a job to the laser, the more time we can spend actually using the laser.

I use my laptop for everything & I'd prefer to use it to it's full potential if the drivers were available to do so. As that is not the case here in 1999, oh wait it's 2009... or is it? I'll have to live with Vista 32bit Grrrrrrr

[Tim Bateson]

Sorry Todd, it looks like we don't have a good solution for you.

[Steve Clarkson]

I don't really have a clue what you two are talking about......but my laptop is an HP 4GB 64 bit with an Intel Duo 2.27ghz and Vista SP1......and I never have to wait for any program......ever. Sometimes Corel will make me wait 2 or 3 seconds if it's a large file....but other than that....I NEVER have to wait for anything.

[Dave Johnson29]

that 64-bit OSs will slowly become the norm... I imagine over the next 3-5 years you will see 32-bit OSs begin to look like 16-bit OSs look to us now.


Dan, No argument from me on the 3-5 year plan, but for Todd's dilemma at this point in time, 32 Bit should still be fine with 4G of memory. I wasn't suggesting we should stay 32 Bit forever. :) Just trying to point out to Todd that dropping back to 32 Bit is not really a performance bottleneck.

I just did not want Todd to feel buyers remorse over an issue that is not an issue for his setup. Even with a 64 Bit ULS driver it would be no faster.

For the work we do there is no real advantage to 64 Bit with or without a 64 Bit ULS driver. Well excpet for that person who posted some time back and she was doing 8' x 4' sheets. Now THAT's a 64 Bit app.

Sooo Todd, drop it back to 32 Bit and be happy!!:D:D

[Tim Bateson]

Sorry Dave, I just don't buy that at least as far as Vista is concerned. However currently Todd has no choice but to run 32bit.

[Todd Welter]

You guys are awesome! At first I thought this would be an easy fix, not really understanding the 64-bit process. After reading and getting an education, I thought I would continue to run an xp laptop with the laser, and keep the new pc with the current configuration utilizing the speed for all my applications, and just bring the completed jobs to the laptop. (and hoping for universal to supply the new drivers). But I think I would be wasting my time, not downgrading to 32 bit and using the performance still available in the new one. I really appreciate all of your input. I'm going to Vegas at the end of the month to the awards show, I'll be sure to emphasize my concerns at the universal booth. Thanks again guys.
Todd

[Roy Brewer]

Has anyone heard of a release for the 64 bit drivers?Todd,

Sorry, this won't help you at all, but since Epilog owners will see the thread title, any Helix/Mini owners can use the 64bit driver available on the website. It is still labeled "beta," but we've installed several systems and there are no known issues: working flawlessly.

[Scott Shepherd]

Sorry, this won't help you at all, but since Epilog owners will see the thread title, any Helix/Mini owners can use the 64bit driver available on the website. It is still labeled "beta," but we've installed several systems and there are no known issues: working flawlessly.

Roy, how about pushing them towards some Mac drivers now? My guess is the first company who releases a Mac driver that works is going to do very well until someone else closes the gap.

Imagine being the only company who offers a Mac driver, where the potential clients are using Macs. It would make their choice much easier on which brand to pick.

And I don't mean a "We work on Mac's, just use parallels and switch over to Windows to use out stuff". I mean 100% Mac drivers.

Come on Laser Manufacturers, let's see some Mac drivers!

[Roy Brewer]

Come on Laser Manufacturers, let's see some Mac drivers!
Steve,

I know this is not what you want to hear, but the ROI is just not there. I know MAC lovers are absolutely positive no one understands how many people are using MACs. Truth is both of the major US manufacturers have developed "quasi" drivers in the past and even that didn't justify cost.
While I'm hardly an expert on this, I know that there is not *one* MAC solution that would satisfy all. If investment was made in a driver similar to what everyone is now using on PC, then the scream would be "NO! we wanted a postscript driver!" But of course "...we need it compatible with PS 1, PS 2, PS 3, PS4(?)... This is simply not simple, and I wouldn't hold my breath for a solution with which everyone would shout with glee.

Further, it appears the "Parallels" type solution has removed much of the pressure for a complete solution.

[Tim Bateson]

Roy, I have used Epilog's 64bit beta driver, however to apply updates to the Firmware, I have to use 32bit. The 64bit beta version doesn't seem to have the capability to browse the computer to find the update.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks for the input Roy, however, it's a Catch 22. The reason there aren't more people running Mac's demanding it is because there aren't any drivers. So the industry looks at it and says "well, there's no one using them for our industry, why bother".

Parallels defeats the purpose of people who do not want to use MS products.

With the Intel based chips now and their market share growing, it's an issue someone's going to have to address sooner or later.

[Roy Brewer]

With the Intel based chips now and their market share growing, it's an issue someone's going to have to address sooner or later.Steve,
Believe me it has been addressed at every sales meeting to which I've ever been. Managers often come back and say: which do you want:
1. the next generation of laser engravers or
2. to let our current systems be run by the MAC.

And the rest is history --- at least up to this point.

[Tim Bateson]

Roy - What about the 64bit support?

[Roy Brewer]

Roy, I have used Epilog's 64bit beta driver, however to apply updates to the Firmware, I have to use 32bit. The 64bit beta version doesn't seem to have the capability to browse the computer to find the update.Tim,

Thanks for the details. I haven't run into this. The driver seems to run fine with the current/latest firmware --- from what you say it can't flash the controller(?). I don't yet have a Vista 64 on which I can confirm that, but sounds like you have and I'll see what/when the fix/workaround is.

[Todd Welter]

Thank you for the input Roy. I am definitely going to check out the line of Epilog lasers at the show. It seems like a lot of folks favor the Epilog. My VL 200 has been a very good machine, but I am limited with the bed size. Maybe this whole thing happened for a reason;)

[pete hagan]

What's the big deal with Macs? Just run an XP window on the mac and you are set.

[Scott Shepherd]

Pete, without wanting to get into a heated debate, Mac's currently don't deal with any virus issues. So there is no anti-virus stuff to worry about and many people feel their operation is intuitive to use and prefer it. Saying it doesn't matter, just use a PC is a bit like telling someone "what difference does it make if you drive a Ford or a Chevy, just drive the Chevy". Well, what if I don't like Chevy? What if I want a Ford? I should have the right to pick what I want, not be forced to use what you tell me to use.

If you've never used a new Mac, you probably won't understand the value. Most people who bash Mac's seem to fit into 2 categories - 1) Those who have never used a Mac at all and 2) those that used an older version of a Mac and didn't like it.

Give us the choice to use all platforms is all I'm asking for. PC, Mac, Linux. All of them should work in my opinion.

[Peck Sidara]

Tim,

Tech support received your email two days back. After further review, you can update the firmware using the latest 64bit beta driver. couldn't find it myself and had to ask the engineering group.

Upon opening the update firmware screen, check update firmware and under the drop down menu, use your mouse to scroll down....it's there, it just appears to be hidden. You have two options, no file and load.

Once you select load, you can point the brower to the location of latest firmware.
__________________________________________________ _____________

Let's not forget that this driver is in beta test. It's availabe for those who are using 64bit Windows OS and we are asking for feedback and/or reports of any difficulty/bugs to make improvements on the next release.

In its current state, it offers most of the latest and greatest driver features we have available less vector optimization and page/center and that great looking Dashboard UI. I'm sure the missing features will be available in the next release.

HTH,

[Tim Bateson]

Thanks Peck, Epilog Support is always very good at resolving issues. I'm surprised they never got back to me. I'll give that a try.

[Peck Sidara]

Thanks Peck, Epilog Support is always very good at resolving issues. I'm surprised they never got back to me. I'll give that a try.


No problem Tim. I told tech support I'm on it and that no response was needed from their side.

For future reference, feedback on current drivers/beta drivers can be sent to tech at epiloglaser dot com.

Thanks Tim.

[Jim Watkins]

Thanks for chiming in Peck. It's always good to have you interface directly with us.

The problem I have is that the 64bit vista driver, has been in beta for now, 1 1/2 years I think. When will a NON beta be released into a permenant driver?

64bit will be the norm soon as it is what allows more than 3gb of RAM to be recognized.

Thanks for your continued support Peck.

[Peck Sidara]

Jim,

The 64bit is one of many things our engineering group is working on. I'm not certain where it sits on the priority list. We've got alot of new and exciting things going on around here so it wouldn't surprise me if its been placed on the back-burner for now.

In its current state, I think it's very usable. Epilog realizes the need and importance of a full working/full release 64bit driver, thus having the current beta driver available. We thank those who are currently using it and appreciate any and all feedback.

Although a firm date hasn't been set, I would expect another release sometime later this year.

[Steve Clarkson]

We've got alot of new and exciting things going on around here


Hmmmm......got any teaser info for us?

I use the 64 bit beta and it works perfectly for me.....you could simply stop calling it a beta and I wouldn't know the difference.

[Peck Sidara]

Hmmmm......got any teaser info for us?

I use the 64 bit beta and it works perfectly for me.....you could simply stop calling it a beta and I wouldn't know the difference.


Thanks for the interest and notes Steve. Huh hum...unfortunately I have no comment on what's brewing at camp Epilog.

[bob perk]

Virtual PC is free from MS, and will allow you to run a second OS in a virtual environment. running a 32 bit virtual machine should be the simple solution to the lack of 64 bit drivers.

[Roy Brewer]

Virtual PC is free from MS, and will allow you to run a second OS in a virtual environment. running a 32 bit virtual machine should be the simple solution to the lack of 64 bit drivers.Bob,

Microsoft specs do not indicate it will run on any of the Vista64's except the more exotic(expensive) versions. Are you sure it will? I can tell you it will not work on my Vista Home Premium(32bit).

Someone got time to try it and give the rest of us a report?

[Dave Johnson29]

I have not tried it on Vista Home Premimum but specs indiate it requires Ultimate or one of the other exotic Vista64s.


Hi Roy,

I have it running on Home Premium just fine. It warns during the install that it is not designed for this system, but I have yet to have it hiccup. I am running DOS 6.22+Win3.1 and w2000 within it, with zero problems.

Because it is free, I suspect M$ don't want to support it unless you have bought the high dollar OS.

There is a work-around to also load it on Home Premium without the OS notifications, but I just used the normal install and ignored the messages.

This is a M$oft guy's Blog. He works on the Virtual PC application. Check here for instructions on installing 2004 and 2007 will work the same way.

http://tinyurl.com/d8cgx3

[Todd Welter]

So guys, could this be a solution if I can get Virtual MS to run on my machine? I'm willing to give it a try if it will recognize my drivers. I will probably be asking for some tech help if this is a possibility.

Thanks,
Todd

[Dave Johnson29]

So guys, could this be a solution if I can get Virtual MS to run on my machine? I'm willing to give it a try if it will recognize my drivers.


Todd,

The easiest solution would be to run 64 in 32 mode if possible.

However you can download VirtualPC 2007 (VPC) from M$oft's site and install it. It is very simple to install but using will take some thinking. :) If you are not a PC-techy, then you are in for some intersting times.

With the VPC installed, you then need to set up a version of 32 Bit XP or Vista within it.

Now I am not certain whether you can use your 64 Bit recovery CD or not, you may need to buy another copy of XP or Vista to install in VPC. You may be able to install the 64 BIt in the VPC since it is still on the same computer, then run that copy in 32 Bit mode.

You could run Windows 7-Beta in the VPC. Providing you used the Shared Folders of VPC your data would be safe when 7-Beta quits in 6 months.

I really think the best idea is to just run 64 as 32 on the base machine. Forget about VPC. IMHO, you are chasing butterflies by trying to run the 64 Bit drivers. The 64 Bit system is a memory addressing issue. I am NOT aware of any magic bullets over the 32 Bit versions other than the addressing issues.

I have been wrong before, :p but I think you will be adding cmplexity to something that does not need to be complex. I really do not see how 64 Bit OS will make any difference at all to the laser performance.

Once again, IMHO if your Corel files are less than 4G in size there will be NO difference. If it ain't broke...

You know how that goes. :)

[Todd Welter]

Thanks Dave. Once again, I think the best way to do this is to go ahead and purchase the 32 bit version. I'm a little computer savy, but trying the Virtual sounds like a lot of trial and error. When I purchased the New PC, it came with no cd's and the only way to get a recovery cd is to make my own as it sits right now, so I'll do that before I install the 32 bit. I'm going to pick up a copy this weekend, I'll let you know how it goes....
Tks Again for all the great info.
Todd

[Roy Brewer]

There is a work-around to also load it on Home Premium without the OS notifications, but I just used the normal install and ignored the messages.
Dave,

Great info. I'll give it a try!

[James Jaragosky]

Why not just get a dedicated machine to run the laser. I just got one last month off flea-bay for $133.00 delivered to my door. it is a used dell desktop with a 3 month warranty, 2 gig ram, windows xp pro, dvd drive ect ect ect....
If you are interested I can supply exact model; and if needed the suppler.

My Chinese machine is not vista compatible so I needed to get a used machine cheap, or buy xp and install it in a new machine; price wise it was a no brainer.
Jim J.

[Glinda Fabok]

I wish it was that easy. Purchased new computer with 64 bit Vista, didn't work. After numerous calls to tech support, both gateway and signwarehouse, had to purchase another vista at 32 bit and guess what, still having issues and trying to work through those with tech support, egad!!!!!

[Mike Mackenzie]

FYI,

We discussed the uls 64 bit driver issue at the sales meeting and the only thing that needs to be completed is the digital signing by Micro$oft. In fact the existing driver will work with 64 bit it just won't load due to the M$ signing. It is in the process right now. Uls does not have a specific time frame however it should not be too long.

[Brian Cosier]

Another alternative to Microsoft's Virtual PC is VMWare's Virtual Server. I've used both a lot professionally, and VMWare's software is much better, and it's free too. Virtual PC has always been a bit buggy. Just do a Google search for vmware free download and go to thier page. Make sure you get version 2.0.

Keep in mind that you have to have a processor that supports virtualization, most newer Intel and AMD processors do. And you also have to turn on this option in your computer's BIOS settings. (this is true whether you're using Microsoft or VMWare) And with some PCs, this option will turn itself off when you do a BIOS upgrade.

Another nice feature with Virtualization is that if you have a multi-core processor (Core-Duo or Quad Core) you can set it up to run the virtual machine on one of the cores exclusively, this will help performance of both the host machine and the virtuals.

Brian C

[Doug Griffith]

Steve,

I know this is not what you want to hear, but the ROI is just not there. I know MAC lovers are absolutely positive no one understands how many people are using MACs. Truth is both of the major US manufacturers have developed "quasi" drivers in the past and even that didn't justify cost.
While I'm hardly an expert on this, I know that there is not *one* MAC solution that would satisfy all. If investment was made in a driver similar to what everyone is now using on PC, then the scream would be "NO! we wanted a postscript driver!" But of course "...we need it compatible with PS 1, PS 2, PS 3, PS4(?)... This is simply not simple, and I wouldn't hold my breath for a solution with which everyone would shout with glee.

Further, it appears the "Parallels" type solution has removed much of the pressure for a complete solution.

I'm guessing that ULS, Epilog or any of the other manufacturers could hire one good programmer for a year and have a working Mac driver by the end of it. The 100k or so investment would easilly be recouped by sales of equipment to Mac owners. After ROI, pump more in and add the bells and whistles of the PC version.

As far as compatibility, I would only focus on the latest version of Illustrator under OSX. Any professional Mac user will have this in their arsenal.

A Mac driver would have heavily swayed my laser purchasing decision and I bet I'm not alone.

Cheers,
Doug

[Scott Shepherd]

A Mac driver would have heavily swayed my laser purchasing decision and I bet I'm not alone.

Cheers,
Doug

I agree. I think I said earlier, the company that comes out with the first GOOD Mac driver is going to clean house. Too bad us consumers see that while the manufacturers think it's not worth it and they can keep cranking out 1 choice and we'll all be overjoyed with their products.

When we need another laser, I can promise you that I'll be shopping for the one that runs well and runs on a Mac. No longer with the machine alone be the deciding factor.

[Doug Griffith]

Pete, without wanting to get into a heated debate, Mac's currently don't deal with any virus issues. So there is no anti-virus stuff to worry about and many people feel their operation is intuitive to use and prefer it. Saying it doesn't matter, just use a PC is a bit like telling someone "what difference does it make if you drive a Ford or a Chevy, just drive the Chevy". Well, what if I don't like Chevy? What if I want a Ford? I should have the right to pick what I want, not be forced to use what you tell me to use.

If you've never used a new Mac, you probably won't understand the value. Most people who bash Mac's seem to fit into 2 categories - 1) Those who have never used a Mac at all and 2) those that used an older version of a Mac and didn't like it.

Give us the choice to use all platforms is all I'm asking for. PC, Mac, Linux. All of them should work in my opinion.

I agree with you and have 2 more unfounded categories to add:
3) The Mac is just an expensive toy and not suitable for running a business.
4) Software to do what I need is not available for the Mac.

[Doug Griffith]

According to Apple, total Macintosh unit sales for the past 3 years are the following:


2006………5.30 million units
2007………7.05 million units
2008………9.71 million units


Considering that Macs are the standard for the graphics industry, many of these are used in business that is or parallels that which laser engravers are used. It actually dumbfounds me that this user base can be ignored. It would be on the top of my priority list to develop a Mac driver if I were one of the top laser manufacturers.

[Todd Welter]

Thank you Mike for letting me know the update of ULS. In the meantime, I will give the virtual a try that Brian spoke of. I did try the microsoft version and found a few glitches without getting the laser to run. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the signing of the driver:o

Thanks again folks.

[Dee Gallo]

I agree with you and have 2 more unfounded categories to add:
3) The Mac is just an expensive toy and not suitable for running a business.
4) Software to do what I need is not available for the Mac.

I love your #4 category - as a longtime Mac-user (started with MacDraw and MacPaint), I had a very hard time switching to Corel from FreeHand because it was such a dumb clunky program comparatively speaking. That was because I preferred FreeHand, not because I was used to it.. I used both, plus Illustrator (which is not my fave either) and a host of other graphics programs. I'm used to it now, but would definitely have made my laser buys based on Mac compatibility if that were an option.

I hated switching, but it was the most compatible with my laser, so to avoid glitches, I switched. I prefer Hondas, not Fords.

- dee

ps- if Macs are just expensive toys, why are all the games made for pcs?

[Doug Griffith]

I'm right there with you on the MacPaint/MacDraw thing. What was that - 25 years ago?

My switch was less painful. I use the same version of Illustrator on my Macs and the PC connected to the laser. I still have to deal with Windoz though.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

FYI Laser manufacures. 64-Bit Vista is becoming very popular because of cheap memory prices. Even Microsoft indicated the growth of 64-bit vista sells have out numbers all other OS's.

Epilog seems to have gotten the message.

[Dan Hintz]

FYI Laser manufacures. 64-Bit Vista is becoming very popular because of cheap memory prices. Even Microsoft indicated the growth of 64-bit vista sells have out numbers all other OS's.

Epilog seems to have gotten the message.
I highly doubt cheap memory prices have anything to do with the popularity of 64-bit Windows. Memory has always been dropping in price compared to the year before (and the year before that, and so on, ad infinitum), and 64-bit OSs like Linux have been around quite a bit longer than Windows. It's easy for MS to claim sales of their OS outstrip any other OS when they package the product with every desktop and laptop you buy by default.

64-bit OSs are the next step, but until the majority of main programs out there support it (and I don't mean just run on it, I mean actually use its capabilities), progress will be slow. Kind of a chicken/egg deal...

[Tim Bateson]

I'm with you Dan. Linux and the Windows 64bit OS are fantastic if you can find the software to run on them. I just wish software drivers were as readily available as with the Windows 32bit OS. It's hard to compete when MS forces every PC vendor to package what it dictates. As with Vista, they even dictated hardware changes to fit the OS.
Now that's the tail wagging the Dog!