High angle frog?

[Joe Cowan]

I am getting ready to order my first hand plane, other than my basic block plane. I am looking to order a Lie Nielsen #4 Smoothing plane and have the option of the high angle frog. I do not know which would be the best for me. Any advice?

[Joel Goodman]

For a first bench plane I would get the standard frog. The hi angle is only needed on some woods and makes the plane harder to push and less forgiving of a not razor sharp blade. Also for softer woods or endgrain it doesn't plane as well.

[Brian Kent]

From the look of the legs, this one would be good for at least 57.5°

[Rick Erickson]

I would go with the standard frog (45) and add the 55 as an accessory. I would also go with the 4 1/2 over the 4 (unless you have small hands).

[Scott Brihn]

I started with a LN #4.5 with the standard frog (45 degree). I ordered the 55 degree frog in late 2007 and have yet to find a reason to put the 45 back on. I personally don't find the resistance from the higher angle problematic. I have no proof, but the iron may dull a little quicker when bedded at the higher angle.

If I were going to order a LN #4 I would order it with the 50 degree frog.

[george wilson]

You could get an extra blade,and carefully grind,or just hone the front edge of the blade to produce the higher angle,which is better for hard woods.It also makes the plane harder to push. If you honed it to nearly a vertical angle,you can,with muscle,plane curly wood without tearing the curls. You don't need to hone a very tall secondary front angle,just enough to engage the wood,no more,should you want to regrind the blade to its original configuration. you don't need to severly alter the blade.

[Jim Koepke]

I would also go with the 4 1/2 over the 4 (unless you have small hands).

Heck, just by one of each model available and beat everyone else to the bottom of the slope. :D

If you have the chance to use the different sizes, it would be a help in deciding the size that best suits you. I find at different times a 3 may be better than the 4 or the 4-1/2. The 4-1/2 is the widest and heaviest. All of them are about the same length.

Wider shavings make bigger muscles.

jim

[Justin Green]

Not as hard as when you don't pay attention and install a scrub plane blade bevel up. I'm such a beginner.

[Joe Cowan]

I going with the 4 1/2. Thanks for the advice.

[Rick Erickson]

You won't be sorry you did Joe. Next up is the 5 1/2.

[Danny Burns]

I would go with the standard angle frog to begin with, and then look at getting the others as you need them.

In the meantime, you can just put small back bevels on your blade if you are in a pinch.

If you work in the tough stuff a lot, wild curly grains, then get the high angle frog as an accessory. You can always put a small back bevel on a blade to go up, but it's real tough to go down!:eek::rolleyes:

I have the LN #4 1/2 and find it easy to push because I am always smoothing with it, so the shaving thickness isn't that thick.
I hear people worrying about the workout these hand tools can give, but a sharp blade and a squiggle of paraffin wax on the sole, and you will be hard pressed to hold onto the plane, it will be so slick!

[Gary Click]

This is a #10 Frog that we make in my day job.

[David Keller NC]

"I going with the 4 1/2. Thanks for the advice."

I'm going to be a naysayer here, but I think a beginner to handplaning should start with a narrower plane, like the #4 or even the #3. There's a couple of reasons - one's the extra effort to take a wide shaving. This is not insignificant, particularly if you're 4-squaring lumber by hand and working with relatively hard species like maple or cherry.

The second's that it's a bit harder to get a good lateral (side-to-side) adjustment on the wider blade. None of these are deal breakers, but I think there's no reason to throw extra obstacles up when one's learning how to camber a blade, sharpen it correctly, develop a planing stroke, etc...

[Joel Goodman]

If you haven't ordered it one more thought. I find the 5 or 5 1/2 easier to register because the front before the blade is longer. I prefer those to the 4 1/2 even for smoothing. The 5 is the same weight as the 4 1/2 while the 5 1/2 is heavier for the same width as the 4 1/2 so it gets more momentum going. If you can try them out it's valuable.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Another advantage to ordering the 4 1/2 is its the same width as the 5 1/2 and #7. So you could swap frog's between them - have 1 high angle and if you really need to, swap to a standard angle.

Certainly few instances where that would be needed, but i just think its nice to have the versatility.

I have the HA 4.5 and don't find it harder to push - then again, i'm using it as a finish smoother, so i'm taking very light cuts.

It might be easier to learn to camber on a narrower blade, but then again you won't know its easier if you start out on the 4.5. I started out cambering with my 5.5 and didn't have trouble using the Charlesworth method. I think its all relative.

[Mark Roderick]

I vote in favor of the #4 1/2. For one thing, I don't think the high-angle frog is available on the #4. For another, I have the #4 and have never really been happy with it because it's so narrow. As others have said, it's a smoothing plane made for taking thin shavings, so the physical effort shouldn't be an issue. For that matter, I also have the LN #7 jointer, which is much wider than the #4, and that thing is an absolute pleasure to use, even with thicker shavings.