Birch or Maple Plywood - Which would be easier to finish in a Cherry color?

[Ryan Swanson]

I'm trying to decide between maple or birch plywood for built in shelves. I'm going for a Cherry-type final look and understand both are fairly difficult to stain. Advice?

[Steve Schoene]

I think each would be about equally challenging. I'd give a small edge to maple as having a bit more of a cherry like grain structure. Your choice may be determined by which wood has solid wood available for those parts that need to be from solids.

In addition to the problems with the blotchiness of either wood with consumer grade stains, plywood often has problems since the veneer often reverses its visual directionality--chatoyance.

I would start with dye to establish the basic color--aiming for a bit lighter than the final look you want. Unless you are spray equipped you would want to use powdered watersoluble dye.

Then seal the surface with about 1 1/2 lb. dewaxed shellac, and then use a gel stain to add a bit of depth and even out any color unevenness.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Steve...I'd use maple for this of the two. Alternatives would be poplar or alder. And don't pair them with cherry solid stock...you'll get into color issues down the road when the two species change inconsistent with each other.

[Al Navas]

I'm trying to decide between maple or birch plywood for built in shelves. I'm going for a Cherry-type final look and understand both are fairly difficult to stain. Advice?
Ryan,

Which cherry color are you going for? The commercial, dark cherry, or the reddish color that develops after about 5 to 10 years?


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[Ryan Swanson]

Ryan,

Which cherry color are you going for? The commercial, dark cherry, or the reddish color that develops after about 5 to 10 years?


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Al - good question. The reddish color, not the dark look.

[Mike Conley]

You might want to check out this site.

http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/

Click on "Classroom"

Click on "Finishing & Refinishing Articles"

Scroll down to "Poplar to Cherry"

[Michael Pyron]

definitely use the maple...IMHO birch stains horribly because of the way the stain digs into the open grain giving the wood a look similar to having pepper tossed on it....

[John Timberlake]

I have made birch ply look like cherry with garnet shellac on it. The ply was used for the backs and shelves of bookcases.

First step was red mahogany TransTint which looked horrible. Then a coat of garnet shellac gave the color I wanted. It looked just like the solid cherry in the rest of the piece which just had the garnet shellac. Then you can put any final finish you want.

[Ryan Swanson]

Okay more beginner questions here:

I have settled on a couple of things for my project (and started) but new questions have arisen:

1) I am using maple plywood for the carcases...what readily available wood would be the easiest to match for the face frames - select pine seems to be the easiest to get.

2) I think I have settled on using TransTint dye for step 1. What do I do next? Assuming I am not yet happy with the color, I seal with between a 1 and 2 lb cut of Shellac, then I go to a gel stain to get my final color. Do I seal again after the gel stain as the final coat, or do I leave the gel as the final?

Sorry for the dumb question, just never before done a project with anything more complex than a basic rubbed oil stain + poly.

On the other hand, what if the dye color comes out as a color I really like and no more coloration is necessary - what would I use for a final coat at that stage?

Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

Maple, Ryan. It's readily available, will match the grain and texture of the maple plywood you chose and will likely color up very similar to the plywood. Pine will not work at all, IMHO. Poplar might work, but it's initial color is different than the maple.

I would seal the gel stain before proceeding to your final finishing steps.

BTW, you absolutely should run through your entire finishing regimen on samples of both your plywood and face frame material before you commit to the real project... ;)

[Ryan Swanson]

Thanks Jim.

What would you seal the gel stain with, and what would be a good final coat once all is done? The look I am going for is somewhat semi-gloss.

[Jim Becker]

Use the same de-waxed shellac you use over the dye. Relative to your top coats, you have choices. Since your coloration is being taken care of primarily by the dye, shellac and gel stain, you could go water borne or oil based. If you can't spray, then a wiped on oil based varnish will likely be easiest. If you can spray, many of us enjoy using Target Coatings USL in satin as our primary top coat finish product. (It "can" be brushed, but most folks spray it since it dries so quickly)

[Ryan Swanson]

Good deal - I feel better about the process now.

Only other thing I am trying to find answers on is grain raising - do I need to worry about this before getting started with any of this? Or is this something I do after I've applied the dye?

[Jim Becker]

Ryan, I don't bother raising grain first. A quick swipe with 420 after the dye dries (and it WILL look horrible and muddy at that point) will cut most of the nibs and you can do it again after you seal it to get any remaining nibs. I'm not talking "sanding" here...just a quick rub-down that only knocks off the nibs.