1st "official" granite photo attempt

[Steve Clarkson]

Technically, my first granite photo attempt was on Laser Day 1.....and you all know how THAT day went! So, I don't consider that attempt as official......besides, it basically just came out looking like a sheet of white paper.........

So here is my first "official" attempt. The first picture is pretty lousey, but it shows the whole 12x12 tile.....the second picture is a scan, but my scanner wasn't big enough to get the whole thing.

On my 45 watt, I engraved it at 300 dpi and 100s/45p and I did not use the 3D or other dithering options (Floyd, Stucki or that other guy). I used photograv (black granite material option but no Interactive Mode changes)and the cutout lab in photopaint to process the picture. I also used armour-all on the tile (which I got from the largest and most popular Italian stone company in town for $13....the Home Depot tiles have alot fewer white specks than this "good" tile). The photo was scanned in by me at 600 dpi. I also powerclipped the photo into a white oval in Corel.

I was generally happy with the way the photo engraved (the detail, I mean) but I was very unhappy with the depth of the engraving.......can I engrave it a second time to make it deeper or do you only get one shot with granite? When you look at it from the side, you can barely see it.

I realize the thing that I need to work on the most is processing the photo in PhotoPaint....that will just take lots and lots of practice.

On my practice tiles (2x2), I tried white oil based acrylic paint....but it didn't really stick to the text and basically ruined the photo. Also on the practice tile, I tried to clean off the armour-all with a kitchen and bath cleaner and it basically erased the picture (guess that's why my bath tiles sparkle!).....so, how do you remove the armour-all AFTER you engrave the tile?

Everyone's comments and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

[Margaret Turco]

Good job Steve! So far in my learning curve, granite has been the most challenging material. I did one that came out ok. It actually looked best when I barely went through the surface but I had a bit of the same issue with it not being really clear when viewed from some angles. I also had big problems trying to color fill but it has been suggested to me that printers ink works well and I'll try that next time. Mine came out better when I used the cherry photograv setting.

[Anthony Scira]

Try hitting it with a little silver or gold rub and buff.

Makes the picture really pop out.

[John W. Love]

Steve, those look great! Granite does have a bit of a learning curve to it, however it does get easier each time you do it. I did notice a few weeks back that photograv has some new settings listed and I downloaded them. Tonite is actually the first time I have used the Armorall on the tile when I laser it, so I too am curious how to get it off once this piece finishes engraving. I am doing the chessboard that Onur posted for my son's birthday. I chose some marble that I picked up real cheap $1.98 /sq. ft. at Lowes It is pink with a blood red veining in it. Thought I would see how that looked because it is absolutely stunning to look at. Wife wants that tile in our house if we ever decide to do that, and I think it would look great. So far the tile is just partially done but I believe it is going to look great. I will post some pics when I am finished with it.

[Frank Corker]

Nice job Steve. You're getting to the point where you are starting to run, it won't be long before you start flame polishing Grasshopper!

John, you need to take into account the colour of your marble, if it is dark then you will have to use the negative image, if it is light then a positive. Potentially it could be both!

[Steve Clarkson]

Thanks everyone. But no one answered the two pass question in order to get it deeper or mentioned how they clean up their tile after it's engraved.

Anthony, the Rub N Buff seems to work great on text....but when I put it on the actual photo, it looks horrible.....do you have any application suggestions?

John, I made that chessboard on black acrylic and it's beautiful. I'll bet that pink marble would look great for Valentines Day!

Margaret, it seems like the general consensus on here is to use the cherry settings for everything....I'll try that.

How about Floyd, Stucki, Jarvis and 3D......any recommendations there?

Oh, and Frank......I just bought my first pack of matches.....what should I buy next?

[Frank Corker]

.....
Oh, and Frank......I just bought my first pack of matches.....what should I buy next?


I hope they are safety matches! Now go and strike one or two matches per day for the first week and then we will progress from there.

[Darren Null]

it won't be long before you start flame polishing Grasshopper
Ah you smug city folk with yer flashy tools. We rub the edges with leaves and we're lucky to have them.

Photograv is really your best option. If you have that then all the stucki/floyd/etc are very poor second choices. And I use the cherry setting for everything and it works for me...if for no other reason than I know what I'm gonna get.

Unless you lasered it with it pushed hard and square against the rulers (if you have them), you have no chance of doing a second pass. Even if you did, and the granite is a tiny bit off-square you can misalign it and just write over your work. For myself, I never try to redo a photo job once I've removed it from the machine. I've got a bright torch that I use to examine the piece in situ, and if it needs more, then I run the job again..adjusting the power if it seems necessary (and even that's a risk, as sometimes on my machine changing the power can alter the print file slightly).

You also seemed a bit light on the power for granite that you intend to colour fill. I've only got a 10W, but I NUKE granite. 100P 1-1.5S. It's different for an indoor job that you only need to scuff the surface of, but you need more of a hole for colour filling.

Armour-all? Not a clue.

EDIT: Cleaning up?. Laser; wash under tap to getrid of dust before applying paint. Car paint, clean with WD40 (or turps, I'm told), normal indoor artists acrylic paint, clean with DNA (alcohol).

HAHAHA! Just put an avatar up. Contributors get 100x100 pixels and us mere members get 50x50 pixels. That's really....erm....thorough.

[fred sanchez]

why would you use armor all? i dont get it
when i engrave granite i do one pass with the universal setting for granite then fill it with white acrylic crylon paint

seems to work well for me

here is the link of the turtle i did

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=97291

[Steve Clarkson]

Darren.....thanks for the tip about the leaves.....I'll give it a try.....

And thanks for answering my question about the second pass.....yes, I did laser it up against the rulers.....then to read on here TODAY that you shouldn't!

As for the power.....I tried the NUKE THE GRANITE route the first time.....and all I got was a white sheet of granite! I will have to keep practicing though and trying different settings.....because I really do need to find a way to make the engraving deeper.

That's interesting about the Stucki/Jarvis/3D settings.....I assumed that they were kind of independent of your photo processing in CorelPaint/Photoshop/Photograv. So if I use Photograv, is the general consensus that you should leave those settings off?

Here we go with the Cherry setting recommendation again......when will I learn?

Fred, not sure WHY the amour all is recommended.....but it seems to work for everyone that tries it.....so I'm not here to prove them wrong.

[Tim Bateson]

Steve, As to your question about Stucki/Jarvis/3D settings vs PhotoGrav. In the case of Granite I would say PhotoGrav and Epilog's Standard settings are the better choice. I use Epilog's Stucki/Jarvis/3D settings and no PhotoGrav > 95% of the time, but not on Granite.

[Steve Clarkson]

Steve, As to your question about Stucki/Jarvis/3D settings vs PhotoGrav. In the case of Granite I would say PhotoGrav and Epilog's Standard settings are the better choice. I use Epilog's Stucki/Jarvis/3D settings and no PhotoGrav > 95% of the time, but not on Granite.

Thanks Tim

[Jerry Hay]

This lion was done from Lowe's granite tile there are 6 of them at 12x12 each. I cut the picture into sections and ran them through photograv. I did them one at a time and put them together on a board. I didn't use any armor all or rub n buff this is just the tile. I have a auto repair garage as well as the laser shop. Before I assembled the pieces I laid them between rags from the shop. To my suprise there was oil on the rags. It soaked into the engraving and I thought it was ruined. I tried everything to clean it off to no avail. I had some Brakeclean in my shop so I figured it is ruined what can I loose. To my surprise It worked amazing. The oil was gone and the image was as bright as ever. I take this piece to shows as a display and hundreds of people touch it at every show. I spray it with brakeclean from Advance auto parts and It looks good as new. I love working with granite it is my favorite material to work with. I always run it at 300 dpi make sure that the photo you are working from is 300 dpi. I think my settings are (my notes are not here with me) 90% power 95% speed. Granite has to be done fast to come out right. I hope it helps.

[Steve Clarkson]

[quote=Jerry Hay;1040907]

Thanks Jerry......that mural is awesome! Is that picture of the lion anything you can share? I would love to try it.

High speed and high power.....interesting. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to go through quite a few pieces of granite before I get my settings right!

So you use the brakeclean on ALL your tiles......not just the ones that get oil on them?

[Frank Corker]

Great job on the tiles Jerry. Very striking image, always grabs the attention when they are like that, well done.

Steve, for granite with a 45w I found my best settings on that have been 33 power to 100 speed

[Steve Clarkson]

Ohhhhh....changing your story, I see.......

A thorough search of the Creek shows your previous granite recommendations to be 100s and 44p...........and NOW it's 33?????

No wonder my tile didn't come out perfect! NOW I know who to blame!

But seriously.....like I said, I thought the detail in the picture was good....but the DEPTH wasn't where I want it to be (or maybe I'm just expecting too much.....more of a sand blasted look and feel). So for me, I don't think less power is what I need. I THINK what I should do is keep adding a little more power until I get to the point where the detail starts to wash out.

Even when I looked at the tile tonight....I had it sitting on the counter....the overhead light was off, but there was sufficient light just a few feet away....but I couldn't see ANY off the image on the tile in that situation. Who wants a picture that they can only see in bright daylight or when the lighting is JUST right? I wouldn't spend good money to buy a tile like that, so how could I expect someone else to?

Hmmmm......guess my perfectionist issues are coming out.......

[Jerry Hay]

Thanks Frank coming from you that really means a lot to me (since you are the man). I use brakeclean on every granite tile now. It cleans very well and I am very happy with it. You can buy it cheap and a little goes a long way on the tiles. It is a spray on and wipe off option for cleaning tiles. I buy it by the case at the garage but it is still cheap by the can at auto parts stores or wal mart.
I was thinking about what you wrote about the depth on engraving. Lasering granite will never be deep you etch the surface. Granite is hard only a diamond can cut it. The laser heats it up and melts the top of the surface. The wear is like a milimeter every 100 years so it will last almost forever. Don't worry about how deep it is it won't wear off in a few lifetimes.
I have the files for the lion on my laptop. I can send them to you in a few emails thay are too big to post. Send me an email and I can send them to you.

[Frank Corker]

Thanks Jerry. I actually have so much wildlife stuff, finding a place for it would be difficult, but I appreciate the thought. It wasn't actually me who had concerns over the depth of the engraving. It was one of the first things I started engraving on and I read at the time that the estimated life span was 8000 years before the start of deterioration. A piece I did three years ago is apparently in the same condition as the day I engraved it and it is sitting out in the elements. 7997 years to go, so watch this space and I'll keep you updated every 20 years or so!

I would like to do a large area like you have done, but unless someone wanted to pay for it, it would be wasted.

[Steve Clarkson]

Frank......you gotta keep up......I was the one who asked Jerry for a copy of the lion.....but since you offered......I would be DEEPLY appreciative if you would be willing to share a few wildlife photos (not clipart) with me. I have exactly...none.

[Frank Corker]

Frank......you gotta keep up......I was the one who asked Jerry for a copy of the lion.....but since you offered......I would be DEEPLY appreciative if you would be willing to share a few wildlife photos (not clipart) with me. I have exactly...none.

Duh Steve, I know it wasn't directed at me, but he did direct it at me!

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

Hi all
Here is another piece I did on an absolute black granitr from Home Depot. Make sure to get the one made in Brazil.
I am satisfied with the brightness of the result.
I use Armorall only sparingly and buff the tile before engraving. This way you dont have to remove anything after its done. Make sure to dust the tile before wiping it.
I use the spectralite grey granite PRM file as the one for black granite tends to lighten the dark portions of an inverted file.
Try to get good contrast in photopaint before engraving.
I use 100 speed and 40 power on a 50 watt machine.
Too much power tends to blur the image in a 8-bit greyscale file.(It is ok when you are only doing text)

Abdul

[Steve Clarkson]

use Armorall only sparingly and buff the tile before engraving.

That's the answer I was looking for! Thanks Abdul!

[George Brown]

Hi all
Here is another piece I did on an absolute black granitr from Home Depot. Make sure to get the one made in Brazil.
I am satisfied with the brightness of the result.
I use Armorall only sparingly and buff the tile before engraving. This way you dont have to remove anything after its done. Make sure to dust the tile before wiping it.
I use the spectralite grey granite PRM file as the one for black granite tends to lighten the dark portions of an inverted file.
Try to get good contrast in photopaint before engraving.
I use 100 speed and 40 power on a 50 watt machine.
Too much power tends to blur the image in a 8-bit greyscale file.(It is ok when you are only doing text)

Abdul
The photo was a gray scale bitmap, you did not run it through photograv, correct? Did you calibrate the laser output to a gray scale? Or did you use dithering in the printer driver? Excellent quality!

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

George
The photo was a color JPG which i converted to an 8-bit greyscale bitmap and ran it through Photograv after removing the background in Corel photopaint.

abdul

[colin booth]

hi steve
with regards to colour filling and it not sticking very well, i used to be a painter and decorator for 20 yrs (got bored of watching paint dry)
there is a product called zinsser bullseye its a shellack based primer, if you apply i thin coat of this to areas to be colour filled first then any paint you use will stick fast, it was originally designed for painting tiles which are super smooth and have no keying properties, hope this is of help to some one
col
Laserhut uk

[Steve Clarkson]

Thanks Colin

[John W. Love]

Thanks Colin,

I have some of that bullseye somewhere in the garage. I am gonna try to dig it out and try that.
Learning something new every minute or two.

~John

[Tom Bull]

Check this out on page 14 for a great tutorial on granite photo engraving.
www.coreldrawpro.com/library/CP-607.pdf

[Jerry Hay]

I know Frank. I was trying to be concise and reply to everyone all at once. I was directing it to Steve and anyone else who was curious. The part about you being "The Man" really was directed at you though.

[Frank Corker]

.....The part about you being "The Man" really was directed at you though.

Well thank goodness for that! For a minute (just a minute) I thought you meant Steve was.

[Steve Clarkson]

SOME DAY you'll call me "The Man"!!!!!

[Dee Gallo]

Hi Steve -

I'm curious to find out if you got an answer regarding making your image more than a ghost on the HD granite. I am trying my first photo (of a person that is) on HD absolute black 12x12 and my tests are sketchy. There are several images montaged together and they all have that same ghostly appearance (you can see them well at the right angle). I would like the image to be a bit deeper so it can actually be seen!

I am running a 35w epilog. I am trying to isolate the problem:
1. not enough power?
2. bad photo prep?
3. wrong settings?

I did a test run on black matboard, as suggested by someone and it came out beautifully... now if I can just get that result on granite!

Thanks to any one who can offer advice, dee

[Steve Clarkson]

Dee,

No, I haven't solved it yet. Personally, I think it's either learning how to properly apply the titanium white paint to the photo or adding more power until it gets to the point where the image quality deteriorates.

I really don't think it's the image prep, since my image came out perfectly.....just way to light. Same goes for the settings.

I need to clean my laser before I try again....I don't want that to be the reason. I also want to try my 1.5" lens.......I think that might be a big part of it too.

What settings have you tried?

[Dee Gallo]

I stuck with the more common settings, high speed and low power: 100sp/25p. Then I tried lowering the speed to 90, since someone mentioned he never goes over 90 for some reason...thought I'd try it to see what happened, but that did not change anything. I believe he might have been trying to keep the head from jerking side to side...

I did not go all the way to 90/95 as suggested previously by someone, but I am going to try raising the power to see if that helps. I'm just guessing because others like Abdul have posted settings for 50w machines and my manual has NO granite settings.

For those who have this nailed down, could you please tell us if your granite comes out of the laser with a definite groove cut into the stone or does the surface still feel relatively smooth?

Thanks, dee

ps Steve - I seem to remember Frank telling us one time that the secret is practice! So whatever we are doing, it's all good, right?

[Steve Clarkson]

Well, I just got through the first cleaning video tutorial......only three more to go! Hopefully, it'll be all cleaned by dinner!

I've already set up a corel file with 16+/- different settings of the same picture.....maybe I'll do that after dinner and post the results for you.

Too bad Peck isn't around to tell us why the manual doesn't include suggested settings for granite!

[Tim Bateson]

Unless your engraving a black & white image with no gray, such as text - one of the things practice will teach you is higher power = less detail.

[Dee Gallo]

So Tim, are you recommending I go down from 25 power rather than up to increase contrast?

[Tim Bateson]

My limited experience has taught me that yes you need increased contrast. You see granite has no ability to display tones such as with wood, that may get deeper and/or darker. With granite that spot is either engraved or it is not. For example given a photo with a few clouds in the sky. Unless the difference between the clouds and the sky is massively different in contrast, you'll not see any clouds when your finished engraving onto granite. Does that make sense?
I do use PhotoGrav for Granite, one of the few uses for it. It'll take the gray tones and space out those black dots to fool the eye to appear as if it's a gray tone. However if you use too much power and/or too high of DPI those dots are too close and you totally loose the gray tones.

[Tim Bateson]

Another note Dee, your desired power depends on what your engraving. We can't always control what the customer gives us. So one photo my be perfect at say 33 power and the next no more then 20 and at times maybe 50. Unfortunately marble is also as different as is each job. I have a pile of marble and granite that is now scrap. Someday I'll either try re-polishing them or line the creek behind the house.

[Dee Gallo]

Another note Dee, your desired power depends on what your engraving. We can't always control what the customer gives us. So one photo my be perfect at say 33 power and the next no more then 20 and at times maybe 50. Unfortunately marble is also as different as is each job. I have a pile of marble and granite that is now scrap. Someday I'll either try re-polishing them or line the creek behind the house.

Well, thanks Tim! I guess it's time to re-process my 4 photos to make them more similar to start with, although I would love to be able to make one of them fade into the background without losing it. I'm starting to collect my own scrap pile now...

This is not a customer job - I am making a memorial for my father who just died 2 weeks ago, so it's for me. A good way for me to keep my fingers busy right now.

thanks, dee

[Steve Clarkson]

I am making a memorial for my father who just died 2 weeks ago,

Dee, I'm so sorry....I'll keep you in my prayers tonight.

[Tim Bateson]

My condolences Dee.

For the faded background image you may want to use Jackie's technique and color fill the foreground image(s)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=103685&highlight=Jackie

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

This is the first time I have used marble from Laserscetch.
I is a real pain to center the image on the oval shape

Abdul

[Anthony Welch]

Abdul,

Scan the oval marble, then trace out the outline. Right size or shape every time.

Anthony

[Dee Gallo]

Thanks Steve and Tim, you guys are so nice.

I did a little experiment with colored pencils after seeing Jackie's work. I found that watercolor pencils wipe off easily, but Prismacolor is a brand which is softer and waxy, they don't rub off easily plus they can be blended by rubbing. If applied heavily, the colors actually glow against the stone texture. The jury is still out on whether I think they add to the effect or not. In one respect, they look beautiful and the eye loves color. On the other hand, there is something more elegant about the pure engraving without "tricks".

cheers, dee

[Steve Clarkson]

Does Prismacolor come in white? I mean, is it a better alternative than a white oil paint?

I'll do my test first thing tomorrow.....I got a little side tracked looking for tiny screws that fell out of my laser during cleaning....

Oh, and suggest we start a new thread.....it takes me like 10 minutes to find a new post in this one!

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

Abdul,

Scan the oval marble, then trace out the outline. Right size or shape every time.

Anthony

Anthony,
thanks. That is what i eventually did.
The main problem is to align the template vertically. This has to be perfect otherwise the image will be skewed on the plaque.
I still have not figured out a foolproof method.
When I put the oval on the scanner I had to figure out how to align the centerline of the stone so that it is perfectly parrallel to the front edge of the scanner.
I am sure there must be a perfect way of doing this. I just dont know how.
The attached drawing gives you an idea of what I mean.

abdul

[Dee Gallo]

Does Prismacolor come in white? I mean, is it a better alternative than a white oil paint?

I'll do my test first thing tomorrow.....I got a little side tracked looking for tiny screws that fell out of my laser during cleaning....

Oh, and suggest we start a new thread.....it takes me like 10 minutes to find a new post in this one!

Yes, it comes in white. I think they stick a lot easier than oil based titanium does and there is no waiting time for buffing. They are a premium brand colored pencil.

[Steve Clarkson]

Abdul.....just put a piece of cardboard, or use tape, on your laser bed, then engrave the oval only at like 100s/5p and it should leave a mark on the tape/cardboard so that you can simply place the marble oval on it and then it will be lined up perfectly for when you engrave the photo.

Did anyone else notice how long that sentence was?

[George Brown]

Well, thanks Tim! I guess it's time to re-process my 4 photos to make them more similar to start with, although I would love to be able to make one of them fade into the background without losing it. I'm starting to collect my own scrap pile now...

This is not a customer job - I am making a memorial for my father who just died 2 weeks ago, so it's for me. A good way for me to keep my fingers busy right now.

thanks, dee
I'm sorry to hear that Dee. My prayers are with you. May he rest in peace.

[Dee Gallo]

Thank you, George. I appreciate your comments.

- dee

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

Abdul.....just put a piece of cardboard, or use tape, on your laser bed, then engrave the oval only at like 100s/5p and it should leave a mark on the tape/cardboard so that you can simply place the marble oval on it and then it will be lined up perfectly for when you engrave the photo.

Did anyone else notice how long that sentence was?

Steve
This is a very good idea. This is what i did. Made a jig out of foamboard.
The problem is how to vertically align the outline of the marble in the graphic. This graphic is used to mark/make the jig and if it is even slightly lopsided, the contents of the engraving will not be centered and aligned.

The problem boils down to the following simple statement:

Create an oval graphic.
Rotate is slightly at no precise angle
Now try to perfectly align it vertically.
Remember that we cannot rely on eyeballing it back to the vertical plane.
Abdul

[Tim Bateson]

I think in Steve's suggestion - use cheap masking/painter's tape; Mark your oval as it is in Corel, align your marble and laser. Then throw the tape away. No jig, just a simple and fast solution.

On my Corel templates using various jigs, I have shapes that I NEVER move. I just place the image and/or text within the shape and go.

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

I think in Steve's suggestion - use cheap masking/painter's tape; Mark your oval as it is in Corel, align your marble and laser. Then throw the tape away. No jig, just a simple and fast solution.

On my Corel templates using various jigs, I have shapes that I NEVER move. I just place the image and/or text within the shape and go.

Tim
This is exactly what I do as well and the suggestion about using the masking tape is a good one. However, as the oval does not have a square edge, I cant align the marble perfectly either horizontally or vertically when I place it on the scanner. Now this scanned image is the only outline I can use in corel and if it is not vertical, my text/picture will be lopsided

Maybe i am not coming across very clear. If you have the time, try experimenting and you will realize what i am saying.
Abdul

[Tim Bateson]

Why are you scanning it? I just use Corel to draw an oval the same shape and size. Laser this shape onto the tape, then set the marble within that outline on the tape. I then setup the photo and raster away.

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

Why are you scanning it? I just use Corel to draw an oval the same shape and size. Laser this shape onto the tape, then set the marble within that outline on the tape. I then setup the photo and raster away.

I scan because the oval shape from Lasersketch is not a perfect oval. It would not matter if the engraving is only text or the background does not have to be white. The edges of the white engraved oval should be equi-distant from all edges of the marble.
Abdul

[Dee Gallo]

I'd like to show the results of the fabulous Frank's touch on my work.

The one on the left is "Frank" processed, the one on the right is Photograv. Both are engraved at 100 sp/56 power on a 35w epilog mini (12 x 12 HD granite). The images are not brightened by photo-retouching or titanium, so you can see how they came out of the laser.

There is a bit of reflection on them, but you can clearly see the difference. It would be a matter of preference whether you choose the smoother gradations or stronger contrast. Both are actually crisper in person than these small jpegs.

I learned that my original photos needed much more oomph - stronger contrast and darker darks to create the correct starting point. Thank you Frank for teaching me that. Someday I hope to be able to walk on my own!

Either way, I am very pleased with them both and it's an honor to present my father's memory here. He would have loved the comraderie of this forum.

Thank you to everyone for their well wishes to me as well.

cheers, dee

ps- And by the way, thanks to whoever posted the yeoman's seal - it was the right thing at the right time.

[Steve Clarkson]

Wow!! I guess Photograv isn't the end all solution. This clearly demonstrates that a major part of getting a good engraving of a photo is the pre-engraving photo processing.

So how do we learn how to find the right contrast? I could change speed and power all day long and never get the result that Frank did....

Cheers to Frank for helping Dee!!!!!

And Dee, that is a WONDERFUL tribute to your Father.

[Dee Gallo]

Thanks, Steve-

I am SO grateful to Frank, but would also love to improve my own skills with processing photos. Even though it has NOTHING to do with my business, it's obviously a valuable skill and something I might need again sometime. What we really need is a face-to-face workshop so we can see exactly what works and what doesn't. When I saw what he did to my photos, it surprised me. My Photoshop skills don't tell me what my laser wants to see. Maybe those of us in NY State can get together for some computer time. But how do we get Frank to attend? Although, I sure could learn something from Jackie too.

cheers, dee

[Dee Gallo]

There was a white spot on the upper lip of this one, which I tried to hide with titanium. It did not help, but it did brighten the whole image. So, I used this test tile to try adding color with prismacolors and used a black pencil to hide the spot. There are red reflections in there of me taking the picture, but you get the general idea.

cheers, dee

[Tim Bateson]

Not being a fan of PhotoGrav, I still have to say the PhotoGrav one looks better. To each his/her own.

Dee, You did a great job in the composition/arrangement of the photos.

[Steve Clarkson]

Interesting.......maybe the key is to use the Prismacolors to touch up the tile instead of coloring the whole thing......

I bought a white prismacolor pencil today.....I'll play around with it.

But the bottom line is that we need someone to show us how to process the photo before engraving.....so that it is optimal for engraving, not necessarily so that it looks good onscreen. I think the key is that histogram.....whatever THAT is!

If we call it the NYS Engravers Conference, it'll be tax deductible.....

[Frank Corker]

Tim I think you might be pleasantly suprised by what the Epilog printer driver is capable of doing. Let me get you to try this one.

Get a piece of black acrylic.

Take a decent colour photograph. Resize it. Make a copy.
Put one through photograv (thus making it an 8bit b/w negative) and engrave.

On the other, make it a black and white negative, resize it in Corel if you want. Choose 'normal' for picture not 'stucki' or the others and engrave.

Out and out, the one not going through photograv will win hands down. It comes out just like a real photograph. Try it. Epilog Rocks!!

[Dee Gallo]

Not being a fan of PhotoGrav, I still have to say the PhotoGrav one looks better. To each his/her own.

Dee, You did a great job in the composition/arrangement of the photos.


Thanks, Tim -

It helps when you have done a few layouts before. The key to this one was the photo prep. And I think Frank has convinced me to upgrade to the new epilog driver (finally).

Steve - NYS Engravers Conference has a nice ring to it... now who will volunteer to teach us what a histogram is and how to use it? I'll make the cookies! Or is rum cake more enticing?

cheers, dee

[Frank Corker]

Well if you guys got yourselves on Skype this wouldn't be hard to achieve!

[Dee Gallo]

Well if you guys got yourselves on Skype this wouldn't be hard to achieve!

And how exactly do you get your piece of cake through Skype ?

[Tim Bateson]

I can't believe this! Frank trying to brag on the superior quality of the Epilog driver over PhotoGrav. Me having always held that same believe, but now pushing PhotoGrav for Granite. :confused:

Now I know it's a full moon! :D

I do prefer the Epilog driver in most cases, but I like the result of PhotoGrav on Granite. Honestly with the cost of materials I haven't even tried the new Epilog driver on Ganite. :rolleyes: I had back in 2007 - 2 versions ago and wasn't happy.

Frank if I find the Epilog driver does produce better on Granite, I just may put my copy of PhotoGrav up for sale as I don't believe I use it for any other material.

Also kudos to Epilog - now get busy on a production 64bit driver. ;)

[Frank Corker]

Tim, I don't think it's time to bin photograv yet, like you say it is preference. I'm actually one of those who has only just been converted to trying it first before taking the photograv step. Anthony Welch is the one who kept needling me to try it, well, he was right!

I think on wood I have yet to find the perfect way of getting a great image. It's very close, but still no biscuit. However on the black stuff, like black acrylic so far the Epilog's drivers have been the better result. The same with clear acrylic, the image just has more appeal to it, without having to do anything fancy. When you put a real quality image in, convert it to 8bit greyscale, the result becomes unbelieveable.

I think if I had stuck to my guns and wasn't prepared to make changes for the better, I could well have ended up eating another hat!

[Bill Cunningham]

I have always found the when doing the Romark/Encore/etc. laser badge material, even the normal 'clipart' setting in my old driver works very well @ 300 dpi. I find the driver alone also works well on Anodized Alum, enamel brass/aluminum, cermark photos on stainless, gold alumamark, and Marble of all colours. But not granite, glass or wood, for that I need photograv..

[Dave Coble]

Steve,


You're right, most of this is in your photo processing. At least from my limited experience so far. You can't even really apply a consistent formula to every image either as they will all have differing brightness/contrast going in. You will develop an eye for it though as time goes on. Once you zero in on the right combination I would recommend that you file a set of images that you can later reference for general comparrison to try to acheive the same qualities in future processing. What works for me (in general) is the following:

250dpi image (resize to this dpi if not starting there).

Adjust to grayscale.

Adjust brightness/contrast/clip whites so that nothing is completely black and nothing is completely blown out white. (sometimes this requires a separate layer from the foreground to the background to adjust balance but not usually)

Unsharp Mask Filter (amount 400, radius 2.0)

Import to corel

Invert the image (assuming your are using black granite)

*Notice - I don't even use PhotoGrav for granite at all

Power 23, speed 100, ppi 250 (50w machine)

Once it's done, fill with Winton Oil Color 40 Titanium White (available at Michael's)


This piece (the same $5 home depot granite you used) was done exactly like that except that the background was something entirely different in the original photo, oh and the girl on the right was doing a little something goofy with her eyes so I fixed that, and put a little vignette on the edges. The text I ran a separate pass at 100 power for deep engraving and filled with the same titanium white.

[Steve Clarkson]

Thanks Dave......interesting....another non-Photograver....

[Greg Sloan]

Steve,

Armour-all is used to lighten the photo. Sprayed on, let soak. I usually let it soak overnite. Wipe off before you engrave over it.

As far as double pass, if you don't move your tile after first pass do it again. If its just the lettering you want deeper then just lay it out as blue or any other color and boost the power on that color. One pass works for me and color fills great.

I engrave photos at 27power and 100speed
Lettering I engrave at 80power and 80speed