Did your new Jet wet stone grinder stop running?

[george wilson]

Mine did. I have had dealers tell me they sometimes don't work right out of the box. Mine was in use about 4 hours. I found out why: Take the panel off the wetstone grinder,and look at the little press on wire connectors. They are as thin as a beer can. They are very delicate,and one of mine had cracked when the assembler pressed it on. I just soldered the break,and it works fine. Costs less than a Tormek,but you had better know this little secret.

[Jim Koepke]

This seems to be one of the problems with manufacturing today. In order to lower the cost of making a product, cheaper components are used. Manufacturing may be moved to take advantage of lower priced labor. The workers are not fully trained on the use of tools and some will figure if crimping a connector lightly is good, crimping it twice as hard is better. Eventually it causes a higher percentage of failures.
The makers who refuse to give in to this type of false economy for "savings" are often driven out of business because everyone is shopping for a "less expensive" solution.

Maybe it would be beneficial for product reviewers to dismantle the products they review to expose the quality, or lack of same, used in making these items.

jim

[george wilson]

Jim,crimping was not the real problem. The problem was that the connectors were LITERALLY as thin as a beer can. I didn't measure the thickness of my broken one,but I don't think it was more than .002" thick.That's way too thin to stand the stress of assembly. At least,it's easily fixed IF you know what to do. At first,I thought my printed circuit board had gone bad,and was taking the machine apart to replace it when I noticed the break in the connector.

[Luke Townsley]

Maybe it would be beneficial for product reviewers to dismantle the products they review to expose the quality, or lack of same, used in making these items.

jim


Jim,

I nominate this for quote of the day. Comments about bushings vs. bearings, mount points, screw/bolt types and sizes, electrical connections, and other points could be quite enlightening although a bit subjective at times, but then isn't any review subjective by its nature?

[Dan Bertenthal]

George,
Thanks for the info. Mine has been going strong, but it's good to know some troubleshooting starting points if something like this comes up. (Just last weekend I had an issue with my table saw and remembered an old thread like this where someone had discussed the problem and fix and I was done and back to the project in 10 minutes.)
Thanks for the post,
Dan

[Joel Goodman]

+1 on Jim's comment about reviewers looking inside the guts. Long term durability is something we all want and a look at the machine dismantled is a least a partial indicator of build quality. Perhaps they could do this as a phase 2 part of the review -- weed out the stuff that doesn't perform up to snuff then look at the internals of the top choices?

[george wilson]

I must apologise. Being new to this forum,I forgot I was in the Hand Tool section.

[Gary Herrmann]

I just boxed up my original for UPS to pick up tomorrow (after replacing the motor and the potentiometer). The replacement is downstairs. It works. For now.

I got mine during that big sale last year. They were going for about $170. I forgot the adage about getting what you pay for.

Even the wife agrees (she likes wet grinders for her carving tools), if this one goes the same way, we'll probably get a Tormek.

[george wilson]

I think the Jet is o.k.,as long as you know the little glitch. I got mine brand new for $100.00 at a used tool dealer. He had 2 in a box. Jet didn't want to support mine when they found out I didn't get mine from a dealer. They just kept telling me I somehow cheated them (?) and how proud they were of their products. I didn't mean to cheat them,I just happened to be there when these 2 grinders came in. I didn't even know they made one,or the retail price. I still don't want to pay the Tormek price.Just don't see that it's worth that.

[Dave Anderson NH]

George, Don't worry about posting in the hand tools area when the post is about sharpening systems. This is done all the time and is quite appropriate.

[Jim Koepke]

I must apologise. Being new to this forum,I forgot I was in the Hand Tool section.

Hand Tool section? This is the neaner section. We have tailed tools, we just void the warrantees when we take them apart to make them more to our neanderthal liking.

LOL

jim

[Wilbur Pan]

Maybe it would be beneficial for product reviewers to dismantle the products they review to expose the quality, or lack of same, used in making these items.

Even better would be to see how those products hold up over time.

I know this is the Neanderthal forum, so I apologize in advance for talking about powered jointers, but I find that the "measurements" used in your typical review have little to do with how well the tool holds up in actual use. For example, a review of 8" jointers in Fine Woodworking from a few years ago measured table flatness and alignment in their evaluation. I really don't care about table alignment so much. I know that these machines come with adjustments that allow you to align the tables, and that any misalignment from the factory can be fixed.

What I do care about is whether the alignment holds over time. I'd rather have a jointer that arrived with the tables out of alignment that once fixed, will stay in place, than a jointer that arrives perfectly aligned that I have to realign ever month.

[george wilson]

Wilbur,I am not sure where you are coming from. There is no way to fix out of alignment tables(tables not parallel to each other),except to jam shims,which don't stay put,into the dovetails that the tables rise and fall upon. You had better hope that your jointer has parallel tables,or you will be in a world of hurt. This includes having the cutterhead parallel with the tables. Many cutterheads are not adjustable. The Grizzly is. You can only raise and lower the tables,but that is not the same thing at all. All jointers can do that(except for a few old fixed outfeed table models,like the old Craftsman from the 50's and 60's. I am of course aware of the Fine Woodworking review of jointers.Their good evaluation of the Grizzly encouraged me to take a chance and try one. The trouble with Fine Woodworking evaluations is that sometimes they do an evaluation again,like wood chisels,and in the next evaluation,the results of the same chisels changes. My Pfiell chisels didn't do too well in the first go round,but were among the very best in the second. Therefore,I proceeded with caution in trying the Grizzly jointer. Being a machinist also,I had the necessary special straight edge,and dial indicators to accurately check table alignment,and get real figures for parallelism. As for the length of service you can expect from a machine like the jointer,I think the only problem you might ever encounter with this imported machine is to have to change the motor at some time,maybe never. I have had to change a motor on a Taiwan machine once years ago. It arced across the bearings. For the low cost of the jointer in question,I'd gladly pay for an American motor for such a perfectly aligned machine.I am sorry to put this in this hand tool column,but do not know how to otherwise respond to this posting.

[Tom Stovell]

Mine did. Mine was in use about 4 hours.

So did mine and at about that same use level. I took it back to the local dealer for warranted repairs although I should have check into this myself. It's been in their shop since before Thanksgiving.

Tom

[Wilbur Pan]

I was talking about using shims. I've had good luck with them in using them to align jointer tables that were not in perfect alignment, and haven't had issues with them moving.

Again, my point was not whether the jointer works well out of the box. I'd rather know that the jointer would hold its alignment, once set, over time.

Since this is the Neanderthal forum, I better use a different analogy. ;) It's no good if a #4 plane can take a 0.001" shaving out of the box, if you have to keep disassembling it to reposition the frog every few days.

[george wilson]

Wilbur. How can you suggest that using shims is in any way something one should have to do to a jointer? And,if you move either table,they will shift. That is simply not a viable solution. I won't accept such a machine. Modern jointers USUALLY have their tables ground in situ. I don't know why the Powermatic tables were 1/8" out. Maybe they are trying to grind tables before assembly. In the beginning,Taiwan tried to do that. It was a disaster. I hear the earliest Grizzly machines were like that.

A machine which is made correctly,and avoids the use of loose shims is inherent to a machine which has longevity without adjustment,the very thing you are concerned with. As said,the only thing I would be concerned with about the very accurate Grizzly,would be the motor. Chinese motors are not well insulated: Their rotors are not dipped in insulating varnish. At the low cost of this jointer,I'd not hesitate to but a new motor if needed. I've really only had 1 motor go bad,though.

Beyond what I've said,your logic is so convoluted that I must have to think that you are jerking my chain about this,aren't you?

[Wilbur Pan]

I don't see where I'm doing any chain yanking. :confused:

Perhaps you're missing my main point.

[Joe Close]

I don't see where I'm doing any chain yanking. :confused:

Perhaps you're missing my main point.

I agree, he missed the point some time back... But it makes for a funny read.. :D

And... my jet wet ginder failed to turn on right out of the box. The place I purchased it from had to order another from the factory. The second one worked. However, I must say I have not been "real" impressed w/ the quality. I've already replaced the blade holding jig w/ a tormek version of the jig. The jet jig would not hold a blade at 90* to the wheel, regardless of what I did.

[george wilson]

I am sorry,Wilbur. I cannot see how you think that alignment is not required,and shimming up a machine is going to make it reliable. Beyond caution about Chinese motors,the machine is just fine. Can you re word your point?

[Wilbur Pan]

I am sorry,Wilbur. I cannot see how you think that alignment is not required,and shimming up a machine is going to make it reliable. Beyond caution about Chinese motors,the machine is just fine. Can you re word your point?

If you reread what I've written, I never said that alignment is not required for proper jointer operation. But I'll try again.

I was responding to Jim's comment about tool reviewers checking the quality of components in the tools that they review. My point was that magazine reviews often make measurements of various parameters of the tool they are reviewing, and that I thought that often the choice of what to measure did not have much to do with how the tool held up over the long run.

I was using a jointer as an example. Of course I think that table alignment is necessary for a jointer to work properly, and that I would prefer not to have to deal with it at all if I was buying a new jointer. However, if the tables are out of alignment, I know how to fix that problem. And in any case, in the long run, jointer tables can and will move out of alignment with use, so knowing how to deal with this is a useful thing to know.

What wasn't measured in the jointer review I measured was how well the jointers held their alignment, which I think is a bigger issue in the long run. For example, many modern jointers have stop bolts that hold the position of the outfeed table. If the machining of the bolts or the screw holes for those bolts was sloppy enough that these bolts moved with use, the outfeed table would eventually move with use, and would have to be readjusted frequently. Unlike the table misalignment issue, I don't know how to fix this problem.

So for me, a commonly used parameter in tool reviews, jointer table misalignment out of the box, although annoying, is preferable to constant slippage of the table, which has never been measured in any tool review that I know of. In the first case, I can fix it, and my experience so far tells me it's a one time issue. In the second case, I would be stuck readjusting the tables, say, every few weeks, which would get old very quickly.

In an nutshell, what I'm saying is just because a tool review can measure something, that parameter may not have a whole lot to do with your experience using that tool. And that is my main point.

[george wilson]

Wilbur,I understand you better. But,I still cannot agree that shimming up a jointer is something that should ever have to be done,nor desirable in so far as the ability of the jointer to hold adjustment. It might be a bit difficult for anyone testing a brand new machine to predict future reliability.Even in car magazines they can't rate reliability of a new model.


I have never had much problem with any of the jointers I have used holding settings. If their outfeed tables did slip,I would just have improved on the clamping bolts as required.I personally would rather have to deal with slipping bolts than table alignment with shims on a machine that vibrates. My personal jointer at present is an 8" Bridgewood from 1982,made in Taiwan. It is so accurate,the wood sucks down when you lift it from the outfeed table after a cut,if you know what I mean. I personally think the Grizzly jointer will be just fine. It is made very similar to mine. The locking bolts worked just fine. We played with it quite a lot.

The Grizzly replaced a beautiful,clean old Delta from the 50's. I really hated to get rid of it,but the table was worn such that it was lower near the fence than it was near the rabbeting arm. It could not be gotten into such adjustment that it would cease snipeing near the fence,or causing a taper from the wood riding up when run near the other side of the table.

If my life depended upon it,I could have scraped the tables back to flatness with my Biax power scraper,high spot blue,and my precision straight edges. But,we had a daily influx of work to do,just as in a business,and I couldn't spend the time on it to save the low cost of a new unit. I used to rebuild lathes,but that was more for my own interests than for money.

[Wilbur Pan]

Wilbur,I understand you better. But,I still cannot agree that shimming up a jointer is something that should ever have to be done,nor desirable in so far as the ability of the jointer to hold adjustment.

Did I ever say that? You keep saying that I say such things, when I haven't. :confused:

Be that as it may, I would like to know how you would deal with a locking bolt that doesn't lock.

[george wilson]

Since I have a machine shop,as well as woodworking,I would just have made new parts,tapped new threads,or whatever was necessary. Sorry if I misquoted you. The question you ask is hard to answer unless I had such a case to examine. Has this been a prevalent problem with your jointers? I've used quite a few in 55 years,and never had this problem. The very worst jointer I ever saw was the new Powermatic,with tables so out of alignement that it took a 1/8" stack of shims in the outfeed table's dovetails.

[Wilbur Pan]

Since I have a machine shop,as well as woodworking,I would just have made new parts,tapped new threads,or whatever was necessary.

So I hope you can appreciate that not all woodworkers, including myself, have access to a machine shop. My small basement shop barely has enough room for woodworking operations as it is.

As such, I hope that you can appreciate that from my point of view, shimming jointer tables to bring them into alignment is going to be an easier thing than machining new parts to replace a faulty stop bolt mechanism. If I had a machine shop, I might think differently. It would be really nice to have a milling machine and a metal lathe for such things, but I'll need to buy a new house before getting those machines.

BTW, most of my machinery is 1940's era equipment that I bought used, so I've had to learn how to tune up the machinery I have. My jointer is actually a part of a combo jointer/planer machine, and I did shim the tables, as there was basically no other way to adjust their alignment. However, once I did that, it has been a solid performer, and showed no sign of going out of alignment, even though I have to take the outfeed table off the machine to go from jointer to planer mode.

[Michael Gibbons]

Well , all those previous threads concerning the Tormek vs Jet wet grinders were thrown right out the window, weren't they?:rolleyes::D

[george wilson]

I am new here,Michael,what was the gist of them?

[Chris Padilla]

Hand Tool section? This is the neaner section. We have tailed tools, we just void the warrantees when we take them apart to make them more to our neanderthal liking.

LOL

jim

Ewww...you folks in here need HELP!! Or is that PLEH?? :confused:

[Michael Gibbons]

I am new here,Michael,what was the gist of them?Well, there's the group that says spend the extra cash and cry once or the other group that says the Jet is just fine and saves $$$ but then these things pop up. I'm with the former. Mines about seven or so years old and hasn't missed a beat. Although it's about time for a new stone-wear and tear ya know after sharpening lots of everything. Jeff Farris chimed in on a few occasions and explained shortcomings of the Jet or the virtues of the Tormek- depending on your point of view. The Jet is a knockoff clone of the Tormek. No money spent on research and development or fresh ideas. too bad the patents are only good for seven years. If you don't know, Jeff Farris was the one demonstrating the Tormek to Norm Abram on the New Yankee Workshop. Would you rather have a real Ferrari Daytona Spyder or a Corvette with the fake body panels??

Michael

[george wilson]

I thought your answer would be along those lines. I happened to come across mine NIB for $100.00. It hasn't been any trouble since I found the beer can connector problem. I have no way of knowing what's really inside the motor,etc.. Just,so far,so good. I did almost take it back when it quit,as I'm no electrical tech.

Of course I'd like the Ferrari,until it came time to pay for repairs!!! That,of course,has nothing to do with the grinder !!! I have many fine tools,and machines,but it depends upon how important the grinder is to me. I also have a Wilton square wheel grinder like many knife makers use. It grinds pretty cool with blue belts,and takes metal off a lot quicker. I didn't really have to have the Jet. Don't you see that I am really just a truffle rooting tool pig!!!

[Michael Gibbons]

George, I am truly not busting your chops.:D I do hope that the grinder doesn't give you any more grief. Since the Jet was not out when I bought my Tormek, The option was not there. If I were new to the woodworking hobby and I was looking for that type of grinder, I would automaticaly steer towards the more expensive unit. That's just me hearing that phrase all my life-"You get what you pay for".

[george wilson]

No,Michael,it's just that I have other ways of grinding,and if I wasn't a tool pig,I'd not have bought another grinder.But,$100.00,what the heck ! The knife maker's grinder is very fast,but I have to bother to change the belt.

Old wooden braces used to be so cheap,I knew a furniture restorer in Williamsburg who had several. A different bit in each. Now,That's lazy!!