Veneer rookie needs help please...

[Jon Richert]

Hello friends, I'm new to working with veneer and I hope someone can
help me with a couple of questions. I know this is a non-traditional use for veneer, but Im in the process of crafting a large cross that will hang in my church above the alter.

I recently purchased some hackberry veneer and my goal is to roll the ends (or sides) of the veneer into the shape of an open scroll that will have the letters INRI in a darker contrasting wenge veneer upon it and will be affixed near the top of the cross.

The seller I purchased the veneer from suggested a softener product
to make the veneer more plyable. My first question is will the veneer
hold its shape if I clamp the softened veneer to a sheet metal form in
the shape of a scroll once it dries? Secondly, and please pardon my
lack of knowledge, but which way would I roll the ends or sides of the veneer to appear scroll like? Length wise with the grain or perpendicular to the grain?
Thank you.

[Jamie Buxton]

Standard commercial veneer is pretty floppy stuff. Bending it won't change that characteristic. That is, it isn't going to stay in the bent shape you want. It will flop around. If you can handle the thickness, I suggest making the scroll from three or more layers of the veneer. The resulting piece will hold its curve, and won't be as likely to get damaged in installation. You'd be doing what's called bent lamination. You make a bending form, slather glue on the laminates, and hold them on the form until they dry. I find a vacuum press the ideal tool for this work.

[Joe Jensen]

I agree with Jamie. Multiple layers, or perhaps put veneer on each side of a sheet metal underlayment to hold the shape.

[Chris Padilla]

I would bend this with the grain and I'd do as Jamie suggested.

You'll want to use a glue such as plastic resin. Do not use PVAs (our favorite white or yellow glue like the Titebonds I-III) as they do not dry stiff enough although I must admit that Titebond III isn't too bad but still not stiff enough, IMO, for veneer work.

Visit joewoodworker.com and veneersupplies.com for a WEALTH of information and do not be afraid to email joe@joewoodworker.com, he responds to emails very quickly.

It sounds like a very interesting project! I hope you can post pictures of your project as you meander along! :)

Oh, and WELCOME TO THE CREEK!!

[Homer Faucett]

You need to roll perpendicular to the grain. If you roll parallel to the grain, you are inviting splits.

While a lamination as described above will work, if you don't have a veneer press, it's not what I would try. Instead, to keep the scroll thin (one ply), I would consider taking a metal form as you have described, place some wax paper on the form, and spring clamp the veneer to the form. Then, I'd take some thin penetrating epoxy, and paint the veneer to give it some rigidity in the form you have rolled it into. When dried, it should be able to maintain its formed shape. A coat on the inside once removed from the form would be advisable as well.

Depending on how tight you need the scroll rolled, you may not need veneer softener. If you don't need it, I would not use it, as it can add complications (ripples, puckers, etc.).

[Chris Padilla]

You need to roll perpendicular to the grain. If you roll parallel to the grain, you are inviting splits.

Are you suggeting he roll it like I've show in the graphic? If so, that seems to me that it would invite splits versus rolling with the grain. The lines on the pic indicate grain direction.

[Homer Faucett]

Are you suggeting he roll it like I've show in the graphic? If so, that seems to me that it would invite splits versus rolling with the grain. The lines on the pic indicate grain direction.

No, your graphic shows what I call rolling with, or along the grain, as the roll or lifting occurs parallel to the grain. That will invite splits. It will certainly roll more easily in that direction . . . at least until it cracks.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Homer...just semantics I guess. Pics are worth a thousand words!! :)

[Jon Richert]

Thank you very much for all the valuable input for my project. If I attempt to roll perpendicular to the grain of the veneer as illustrated in this example, but not as tightly maybe 3/4 roll, should I not consider some type of agent to soften the veneer? I live in very rural western Wyoming and infact my closest stop light is 72 miles away and my closest Walmart is 110 miles so is there a good resource online for glues and resin mentioned in earlier posts? And yes Joe at Veneer Supplies is a great source of information and he was the one who directed me to this very valuable community.

I have chosen some mighty fine looking goncalo 4/4 for the body of the cross and will stack the parameter with a one inch offset of goncalo and then slightly bevel the edges. Thanks for the interest in this project and I would love to update you with pictures.

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/6792574/2/istockphoto_6792574-aged-scroll-with-clipping-path.jpg

[Chris Padilla]

Jon,

For the glue, I'd suggest this glue (http://www.veneersupplies.com/product_info.php?cPath=86_40&products_id=187). If you read the description, it also names the plastic resin glue David Marks likes to use (DAP Weldwood brand (https://www.hardwareworld.com/Plastic-Resin-Glue-45-pound-p5GDTBS.aspx)). I think ANY of these will work fine for you. You'll like the longish open time.

Be sure to practice on some cheaper wood/veneer before touching that hackberry veneer you have!

As far as softening goes, I think that depends on the veneer itself. Hopefully you have enough spare veneer to experiment with to see how it does. If it is thin enough, you ought to be able to get a pretty tight radius but you never know. veneersupplies does sell a softener (http://www.veneersupplies.com/product_info.php?cPath=86_40&products_id=616) so read up on it, ask Joe about it. I attached a picture from the vs site to show what this softener can do. It looks like it could work for you. That is a madron burl veneer that he coiled around a pencil!

[Steve Schoene]

I've always thought of the scroll as a carved decorative form, rather than a veneer lamination.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Jon,

For the glue, I'd suggest this glue (http://www.veneersupplies.com/product_info.php?cPath=86_40&products_id=187). If you read the description, it also names the plastic resin glue David Marks likes to use (DAP Weldwood brand (https://www.hardwareworld.com/Plastic-Resin-Glue-45-pound-p5GDTBS.aspx)). I think ANY of these will work fine for you. You'll like the longish open time.

Be sure to practice on some cheaper wood/veneer before touching that hackberry veneer you have!

As far as softening goes, I think that depends on the veneer itself. Hopefully you have enough spare veneer to experiment with to see how it does. If it is thin enough, you ought to be able to get a pretty tight radius but you never know. veneersupplies does sell a softener (http://www.veneersupplies.com/product_info.php?cPath=86_40&products_id=616) so read up on it, ask Joe about it. I attached a picture from the vs site to show what this softener can do. It looks like it could work for you. That is a madron burl veneer that he coiled around a pencil!

The veneer softner that Joe carries is great stuff. I used it on some walnut burl for this a while back, and you really could bend it like the madron in the photo.