Help on a "Vintage Stanley Plane"

[Matt Sauber]

Hello,

This is my first post here - I have enjoyed lurking for a few months now as I have been thinking about tooling up for a woodworking hobby.

There is a listing on my local craigslist for a "Vintage Stanley Plane". That is all the information given. It looks to me like a shoulder plane but I could be wrong. I do want quality tools - that is important, but I like the idea of some older fixer-uppers to add some nostalgia.

I'm more or less just trying to get a feel for what other people see and find potential in on the used market.

Anybody here know anything about this by looking at the picture? Is it worth $10? Could this be restored to a quality tool (barring any major defects not visible in this picture)?

I attached an image of the plane.

Thanks!

[Robert Rozaieski]

Looks like a #78 rabbet plane that's missing some important parts like the fence and fence rod and depth stop. I'd pass. Complete #78s are as common as dirt and can often be had for about the same price as this one. A #78 is not a first tool I'd get anyway. Much more important tools to get before a #78.

[Ian Gillis]

Hi

It doesn't look like a #78 to me, unless I'm missing something in the dark photo. The #78 is a "duplex rabbet plane" with 2 positions for the iron. This doesn't appear to have the forward or bullnose position. I think it's a #180 rabbet or similar.

For $10, I'd be snapping it up real fast. It wouldn't be the most used plane in your shop, but what else can you buy for $10?

Cheers
Ian

[John Dykes]

Heya Matt -

Glad to have you along. Might help to post where you are from, there might be some locals who can better assist you a bit.

It does look like a #180'ish rabbet plane, but I can't honestly say that you should go out and grab it. If it's $10 bucks, feel free - but I don't think you should start this journey with that plane.

I'm a big fan of the refurb process - I get a real kick in bringing these planes back from the dead. If that's something that interests you, I'd be happy to help you along. It's great fun (for some sick people like me)!

I'll assume you want to pick up an old Stanley... I think you should be looking at #3's - #5's (1/2 sizes included) as a place to start. I went through a phase where I was buying planes like crazy from ebay. I studied the Stanley Bench Plane Dating Page (http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating/) and poured over every ebay plane I could find. I was pretty successful - though I bought more planes than I should have, and spent more money than I should have. But when you get a 100+ yr old rust heap and turn it into your goto plane - man, there's nothing like it!

When I first got started, and as I was learning, my first "go, no-go" test was the lever cap hole. If it was "keyhole shaped" - I considered it, if it was "kidney shaped" - I just skipped it. Yes, there are lots of years where the kidney shaped hole planes were fantastic, but many of them were not. Another good thing to look for are dates cast behind the frog (the angled metal part that is in the middle of the plane).

So again, step 1 - look for the keyhole shaped. Step 2 - See if there are dates.

I don't know about your thoughts on ebay, but consider auction #130283814050






Nice #5, keyhole lever cap, 2 patent dates - so either Type 9 or 10. I'd prefer a 10 to a 9, but for $10.... Bottom of the plane could look rough, you'd need some better pictures of the mouth (the slot in the bottom). Not bad, but I probably would pass.

He's also selling 130283814055 - a #6. It has a kidney shaped hole, let's just pass.

250363441020 is a nice looking plane. 3 dates (ideal), Likely a Type 11 - regarded as the best type for old Stanleys.

That may be enough to get you started... There are also reputable folks who sell online....

You might want to post things you are looking at for feedback, help...

[Jim Koepke]

130283814050

Looks like an early type 9 from the frog notch/rib.

The wood alone is almost worth the current bid.

May be too little time left to contact the seller with questions. Blowing up the pictures do not show any damage around the mouth or the lever cap.

If I was in the market, I would consider this plane. It is already more, when shipping is included, than I have paid for either of my #5s.

jim

[John Dykes]

Jim -

Was thinking the frog adjustment of a 10 vs 9 might be of value to a new user? But I'm in full agreement, it certainly is well worthy of consideration!

[Jim Koepke]

Was thinking the frog adjustment of a 10 vs 9 might be of value to a new user? But I'm in full agreement, it certainly is well worthy of consideration!

I used to also think the frog adjustment screw was a good idea. Then, it was realized that the frog is usually set and left. Since one still has to take the blade out and often do an angular adjustment to the frog, this has not been a deal maker or breaker for me. For the planes that I use with different settings, like a #4 & #5, it is easier to just have a couple of them. The pre-adjuster types 1-9 in many cases are less costly. Well, the 1-5 are likely to cost more. The 6-9 are not too expensive. For the average user, my suggestion is to get the type 9. It has a better frog seating set up.

On a #5 type 10 of mine, the frog and rib had to be fettled to get the frog aligned with the base so a square blade would not need a lot of lateral adjustment to cut evenly. There may be some blessings to having the adjustment screw, but there can also be other problems. Of my bench planes only 3 are type 10 or newer the bulk, 10 planes, 8 are type 9 or earlier and 2 are models that never had the adjustment screw at any time.

IMO, if one is going to use the adjustment frequently and can not have 2 or 3 planes of the same size, then a later model Bedrock, flat top sides, may prove a better choice. The blade does not have to be removed to make the adjustment. It will change the depth of cut which can be easily adjusted.

jim

[Justin Green]

I second the 180-182 guess. Looks like a 180, anways, in which case there's not that many pieces missing - just the depth stop and screw?

[John Dykes]

Good thoughts Jim. Thanks -

Additionally, there is a nice #5 ready to be picked up in the Classifieds section.

[Bill Houghton]

I second the 180-182 guess.

But the question for our new user is, what use is this thing?

A plane like this is usually used to make rabbets. The Stanley 78 differs from this in several ways: it has a second bullnose position at the front, for when you need to plane into a corner (not often useful for furniture because the plane's a bit too big for that sort of cleaning out; when it is useful, mainly at carpentry scale); it has a fence, allowing you to set the width of the rabbet; and it has a depth gauge, allowing you to set the depth.

You can get by without the bullnose position. The width can be set by clamping or temporarily nailing a cleat to the stock; the depth can be set by gauging it and then watching your work. For $10, this might be a good plane as a first plane for rabbets, although you'll have to learn a lot more than if you had a more sophisticated plane; but that's not altogether bad. As others have said, it's not your most important first plane, but when you're buying used, the tools do not always appear in order of priority.

I'd buy it, myself, even if it's a while before you need a rabbet plane.

Three suggestions:
1. Go to your local library and see if they have Garrett Hack's, "The Handplane Book." This will give you an overview of the various plane types and purposes. Also see what hand tool books they have, and read them all. The nice thing about libraries is that you've already purchased every book there through your taxes (and everyone else's), so you might as well make use of them.
2. For Stanley planes, reading through Patrick Leach's "Blood and Gore" will give you a lively if opinionated tour of the various Stanley plane models. See http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm
3. If you have the money, go to the nearest Woodcraft store or online to www.woodcraft.com, and buy "Planecraft" ($12 plus tax and/or shipping and/or gasoline to get to the store). This is a reprint of a mid-20th century British book on basic plane use. It's a bit heavy on Britishisms for most folks in the U.S., and is exclusively about the Record plane line current at the time the book was written (Record was a major, now defunct, British company - sort of the Stanley of England, but a much smaller product line). It will try to get you all excited about planes you'll never see (like the T5 "technical jack," which is cool but unnecessary), BUT it's one of the best discussions I've ever seen of how to use hand planes.