Mike Morgan @ PaLumber.com - Buyer Beware !! Internet Fraud

[Marshall Gayton]

Heard a lot of good things about Mike and PA lumber on this site. Unfortunately my experience doesn't mirror that, and is more like that described in a recent post. (Mark Hochstein FRAUD/SCAM ALERT!! Mike... (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1032471#post1032471) 01-26-2009, 5:22 PM)

I placed a small order 100bf Ash and Maple on 12/31, paid via Paypal. Haven't received anything from Mike and after multiples attempts to get in touch with him via Email (he never responded), I filed a claim with PayPal. That claim was found in my favor (1/29/2009), Mike never even bothered to respond. So I am down $383. not as bad as others but painful nevertheless.

My next step it to file an internet fraud case with the FBI http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx (http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx) as I paid for goods and did not receive them. I would encourage others who have similar a similar experience with Mike and PA Lumber to use the link above to do the same. I think we all need to get businesses like Mike’s off the internet.

Also, I would like to hear from others who have had similar issues with Mike and who have made payments through PayPal. I’m surprised that PayPal has not already pulled Mike’s account after reading the posts in the initial thread. I would like to do a follow up with them.... (and previous paypal case numbers would be very helpful)

A closing thought – at time we all experience difficult times – it never is an excuse for stealing from others!
Mike, I hope you do the right thing and return the money you've taken from others.

[Chris Padilla]

Okay, some of the mods feel this thread should be allowed to go on for a bit so it is reopened.

All we ask is that you behave yourselves. We want to keep the community informed and perhaps those of you who feel wronged can get together and do something about it.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I guess opening it again is the right thing to do - let people share their experiences.

Sorta related story - a "parable" of sorts, I guess. Friend of mine opened his own restuarant, convinced that he had covered all the bases, got solid funding, good business plan, schedule, and would be able to work some non-trivial hours at his other (contract-style work) job for extra cash while keeping the restaurant going. Needless to say, he was underfunded, overstressed, and had no time at all for anything other than working the restaurant. He's making it work by sheer will, but at the same time definitely manage to upset a number of people that went out of their way to help him out; I can easily see how something like that can get just so overwhelming in every sense that it's tempting just to close your eyes and hope it goes away.

[Craig Coney]

I guess opening it again is the right thing to do - let people share their experiences.

Sorta related story - a "parable" of sorts, I guess. Friend of mine opened his own restuarant, convinced that he had covered all the bases, got solid funding, good business plan, schedule, and would be able to work some non-trivial hours at his other (contract-style work) job for extra cash while keeping the restaurant going. Needless to say, he was underfunded, overstressed, and had no time at all for anything other than working the restaurant. He's making it work by sheer will, but at the same time definitely manage to upset a number of people that went out of their way to help him out; I can easily see how something like that can get just so overwhelming in every sense that it's tempting just to close your eyes and hope it goes away.

To relate what has happened to the parable above, you walk into a restaurant, place your order, pay in advance, and then wait weeks or months for your food to show up, if it ever does.

I think the most frustrating part for myself, and possibly others, is being told a series of misinformation. ( I'll refrain from using stronger language here, and try to be nice with my wording.)

If you pay for a product, are informed it will ship on a certain date, follow up and are told it shipped, and tracking numbers or bill of ladings cannot be produced, you start to have serious questions arise when this continues to happen. I was at the point of getting the FBI involved after going thru this process for over 2 months, then I finally received the remainder of my order.

I completely understand how overwhelming running a business can be. I think most small business owners can relate to this. Being overwhelmed does not excuse the practice of what has occurred.

All that I have asked is to be told the truth. What concearns me is how similar the stories of others are to what I experienced. I know now that this is is not just an isolated occurance.

[Scott Rollins]

I wonder if he would be willing to do business on a C.O.D. basis. This isolates the buyer from the seller and uses the trucking company to verify shipment.

[Peter Quinn]

After an hour conversation with Mike this spring I considered placing an order for some walnut for a commission for a customer that was on the fence between wanting walnut and mahogany for a desk. He seemed very personable on the phone. I was all but ready to go with PA lumber when I read a thread here about trouble getting an order or a refund. I opted not to use PA, steered the customer towards mahogany as I could easily source leg stock in that species (though i really wanted to render the piece in walnut). Now I read what seems like the periodic complaint about PA, a supporter of this site with its own vendor area, and all I have is more questions. If I got duped on a load of wood I would be tempted to take a ride and straighten things out in person, but I prefer not to be in that position, and I sure would like to avoid filing a case with the FBI for interstate commerce fraud. Can this vendor be trusted?

Anyone know a good source for 8/4 walnut suitable for leg material with a waste factor below 50%? Some one that ships small quantities, even UPS or FedEx freight?

[John Stan]

try hearne hardwoods. After what I went through with Mike, I would not recommend him to anyone.

[Phil Thien]

A Google spreadsheet has been created which allows people to add themselves to the list of people that still have something coming from PA Lumber. Here is a link:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pcpG5OaYFpIf8LssIfUcrYw

Please be responsible in adding content to the spreadsheet (no inflammatory content, just the facts).

I am not the creator of the spreadsheet, I just suggested its creation because it seemed like there were quite a few complaints, yet it was difficult to know how many were duplicates and/or cross-posted.

[Darren Salyer]

Wow..almost 5k so far. Thats a lot of money to return, or lumber to deliver.





After sitting here staring at my screen for 5 minutes, thats all I can think to say. Hope this works out well for all involved, including Mike.

Darren

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Don't get me wrong - I was NOT looking to make it legitimate. Just an observation on how things like this sometimes happen.

[Laurie Brown]

Not related to this situation, but here's something that happened to me several years ago. I ordered a printer for a customer (I'm a computer servicer/reseller) from a place out of state in PA that I'd never dealt with before, because they had the best prices on this printer (the customer needed a particular model for their needs). I needed the printer quickly to meet deadline, and paid extra to have it shipped to me overnight. The printer did arrive, but the package was damaged. I opened it up and the printer inside was also damaged, had parts missing and was very obviously used and returned, and NOT new at all.

I called them and they apologized for the mixup and said they would ship me another printer. This would put me over my deadline, so I said I am going to get in my car and drive down there to pick up the printer. (I would be driving down from Rochester, NY to somewhere in the middle of PA on a Saturday so I would have the printer for a Monday installation.)

Well, long story short I got in my car and drove 6 hours one way to go pick up this printer. The place was a small office buried in an industrial park with no visible signs outside to identify them. I knocked on the door, rang the bell, no one would answer. My husband was with me, and we could hear people moving around inside the office, but apparently they were hoping we would just go away if they ignored us. Then my husband said loudly, "Well, we'll just have to come back with the police and see if they'll open up then."

At that point miraculously they heard us and opened the door and had my new printer. I gave them their used broken one back, took mine, drove 6 hours back home, and never did business with them again.

[Dwain Lambrigger]

A Google spreadsheet has been created which allows people to add themselves to the list of people that still have something coming from PA Lumber. Here is a link:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pcpG5OaYFpIf8LssIfUcrYw

Please be responsible in adding content to the spreadsheet (no inflammatory content, just the facts).

I am not the creator of the spreadsheet, I just suggested its creation because it seemed like there were quite a few complaints, yet it was difficult to know how many were duplicates and/or cross-posted.


I am not sure if it was noted here or on Wood net, however, Mike has stated he will not use the above referenced spreadsheet to work out his "issues."

Mike provided his phone number, so please contact him directly, and don't assume making a "claim" on this spreadsheet will get anything done.

I am in no way defending what has been done by PA Lumber in this message. There is no question that Mike was VERY wrong. I understand that being overwhelmed can be a challenge, but he seems to be taking from Peter to pay Paul, based on what was said. I hope this works out for all owed, and I wonder if this is a business that Sawmill Creek should advertise for...

[Phil Thien]

I am not sure if it was noted here or on Wood net, however, Mike has stated he will not use the above referenced spreadsheet to work out his "issues."


I don't think it matters if he works off his own list, or works off the spreadsheet. Cleaning up one will clean-up the other. ;)

[David G Baker]

What is really sad about this situation is that most of the people on this site would be forgiving and cut a lot of slack if they were dealt with honestly. If Mike had a problem and let his customers know before taking their money things could be much different I am sure. From what I have read, he is still taking peoples money, wonder if he is trying a Ponzi scheme.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I wonder if this is a business that Sawmill Creek should advertise for...

Actually Dwain....Sawmill Creek doesn't advertise for Mike Morgan or PA Lumber. Mike had a private forum here for a while. He had quite a few satisfied customer here for a while.

He no longer has a private forum here.

Things change.

[Andy Sowers]

Well, I for one am glad that these threads were started... As a relatively new woodworker, I was about to place an order with Mike for some PA cherry for a kitchen remodel my wife and I have been planning (for awhile now, but that's a separate topic altogether!). I made this decision primarily based on the positive feedback from several folks here at SMC. For me, this "endorsement" was very powerful.

Anyway, I wont be doing business with Mike. Its too bad, because like others have said... I think he had a good thing going for awhile.