Steam bending window trim

[Richard Holub]

I have read posts here and read a book by Lon Scheining on steam-bending wood but can't find what I am looking for. Is there anyone here who has experience in this field who could perhapps answere my question? I have built a steam box (4" PVC x 5' L). I will be using a wall paper steamer and I am still in the process of building my clamping board.

My question relates to the results I will obtain by steaming and bending a 7' long piece of 3/4" to (1/4") deep x 2.5" wide pine colonial window trim. I have bent wood previously using this system but only by bending the "face" of the board. Will I be able to bend a half circle approx. 27" in diam. w/o breaking the board? Is there some technique that I should be aware of before I begin. I hate to waste wood by trial and error?

Thanks in advance.

[Michael Pyron]

from my experience this will be impossible...if it was possible then people like Jerry Hill in Dripping Springs, Texas wouldn't be able to make a living making custom arches for a living (BTW this guy does the best work I have ever seen and it has always been a pleasure to get the privilege of having his work to install..I cannot say the same for any other person's work I have had to deal with, in fact many censored words have been heard coming from my mouth)

assuming you live in a decently sized community that supports the building of custom houses a lumber supplier should be able to direct you to a maker of such products...be prepared to pay a price for properly made work that will match the profile of the straights you will use....

[Rod Sheridan]

That's a very tight radius, I've never bent anything to that tight of a radius in pine.

I haven't found that pine is good for bending, white oak and ash are two of my favourites for bending.......Rod.

[Craig Coney]

Check with your suppliers and see if you can get the polyeurethane(bendable) trim made to match the profile. They will need to know the radius to get the proper material to make the bend. Pricy, but no frustration involved.

[Richard Holub]

Thanks folks. That is what I thought. I have already priced a couple of brands, one being "FlexTrim", and it is made out of some type of rubber. The only problem is that the width is only 2 1/4" as opposed to the actual 2 1/2" standard width. Also, the price is ~ $50.00 each for that short piece of trim. I guess I was dreaming.

Thanks anyway...

[Quinn McCarthy]

Rich,
I have done that kind of trim on my W&H moulder. I start with a segmented build up on a jig that is the same shape as the window. Turns out great looking. You can do the glue up in solid wood or thin strips like the window companies do. Way easier than bending a solid piece.

Hope that helps.

Quinn

[harry strasil]

kiln dried wood is brittle and doesn't bend well even straight grained pieces.

[Lee Schierer]

I agree with the otehrs you can't bend pine molding that much.

Separate question: You said your steam champber was 5' long the trim was 7' what did you plan to do with the other 2' of trim?

Just so you know PVC will soften at 180 degrees and may melt at steam temperatures (212) so I would suggest using a wooden or metal box.

[Michael Pyron]

Thanks folks. That is what I thought. I have already priced a couple of brands, one being "FlexTrim", and it is made out of some type of rubber. The only problem is that the width is only 2 1/4" as opposed to the actual 2 1/2" standard width. Also, the price is ~ $50.00 each for that short piece of trim. I guess I was dreaming.

Thanks anyway...

actually that is way cheaper than paying a person to custom mill the stuff. the person I know joins wider pieces (doesn't bend layers of rips), cuts the radius then puts the profile on the piece.

take a piece of matching trim with you and see if it is possible to rip off one or both of the edges to get a decent match with the flex trim. I prefer the stuff that is pink as the green stuff has a nice outer surface but the inside is full of air pockets. the point I am getting to is when using flex trim one always has to do a lot of sanding to make a good joint. wood glue won't work so I would suggest using gorilla glue. at the very least use a pin nailer and preferably a micro nailer as rubber trim really doesn't like being nailed and also use construction adhesive to glue it to the wall. also it is many times essential to heat up the stuff as it can crack when trying to bend a radius that tight.

I always do my best to get the length correct, mark a relative point on the piece as I lay it out (I always put it up against the actual opening as opposed to trying to use a tape measure) so that when I put it up after cutting I can start at the tic mark. I've seen plenty of people put the straights up first which IMHO is moronic. I do the radius first then put the straights up.

[harry strasil]

The smallest steam bends I have personaly done is one front wheel complete circle rim and one full circle rear wheel rim for this little antique toy farm wagon, when I restored it for a fella, the back wheel is 16 inches and the front I believe was 10 inch, I used green hickory and left it to dry and shrink in the jig for 2 months hanging near the wood stove in my smith shop, before working it down to the actual size, and both were rived from the small log. You have about 5 to 8 minutes of time to get around the jig before it starts to stiffen up and is unmanagable.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/lilwgn2.jpg

My steamer is a 6 ft long piece of standard 6 inch pipe wrapped with foil backed fiberglass insulation set on 1/2 inch rod legs at an angle with a top rubber sealed steel lid with a 1/4 inch hole in it. The boiler is a 6 inch piece of the same pipe with a top and bottom welded in it and a piece of pipe in the bottom of the tube and the top of the boiler that I slip a piece of radiator hose over and not shown in the drawing is another stub pipe welded into the top of the boiler with a large cork in it as a fill for the boiler, I set the boiler on top of a single electric hot plate. This design lets the condensed water flow back into the boiler. There is also a 3/8 rod rack inside with crosspieces covered with clear plastic tubing to prevent rust marks where pieces of wood lay across the crosspieces. It is rather heavy but does a good job as the material is not laying right on the bottom and the steam can completely surround the material to be steamed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/steamer.jpg

[Victor Stearns]

Find a Creeker that is close to you with a Woodmaster planer/molder. I was able to use my Woodmaster to make a molding that has a large radius, 60" or so. I laminated maple together, clamping to the share we wanted. Bending will have several issues, first, as stated earlier, dry wood does not bend. No amount of steam will help. You would have to have air dried wood. Secondly is the spring back. Using a laminated wood worked fine. We did build a test piece from poplar with excellent results.
Good Luck
Victor

[Jim Andrew]

I know this isn't exactly answering your question, but a friend who was building a house, using wide trim, just cut short pieces of casing and nailed and glued them to fit around the radius. Just set his miter saw off 1 or 2 degrees and cut the pieces about 2" long each, and went right around the window. It was up in a gable, and when I saw it it was already finished and looked great.

[Richard Holub]

Sorry for the delay folks but I just got back into reading this post. I ended up NOT doing any bending after reading your advise. I found "FlexTrim" and installed that w/o a problem.

Quinn McCarthy, When you do the segmented build-up on the jig, what thicknes of material are you using?

When you say "the window companies do the thin strips", do you mean "thin strips" around the jig in hight or in width?

Lee Schierer, WHen I said that I was going to bend a 7 ft. long piec e of pine in my 5 ft. long steam chamber I meant that "I place my stock into the chamber cover whith a small hole in it (both sides) with the extra sticking out. After the required time in the chamber I remove my stock and place it on my jig. The extras just extend beyond the jig. If I calculated correctly and adjusted for spring-back the extar length would etend on the side of the window". Regardless, I did not perform this project. I was not planning on using any rosettes anyway.

Hary strasil, I like your idea of a steam chamber. I just don't do enough bending to build one out of metal. No room in my shop!

[Paul Atkins]

I reread the post and realized your diameter was only 27" - I first thought was a 7 foot diameter. I have a faceplate lathe I made that I use to turn molding like that for round top doors and windows 6-8 times a year. Usually the customer glues up the stock so he knows what he is getting. Since I have to turn a circle they get 2 pieces even if they only order one. I have a system using a piece of the straight molding glued into the blank so the resulting circle is exactly as the profile. Usually I get $70 -$100 for a large circle like your depending on complexity and material. I also turn crown molding corners for curved walls and cabinets and bar rail corners up to 32" diameter. This picture taken from a video shows the backside of a mahogany bar rail being turned. Well, can't seem to get photo to post- this has happened more than once recently -hmm.

[Paul Atkins]

We'll try once more.

[Ken Higginbotham]

We used the flex stuff on the house we just built and it looks great. The only thing is where the curve mates with the straight pc the profiles do not match exactly. We cured this by putting a small 3" square wood medallion where they meet. It looks nice and dresses it up a bit. I can do a picture if you'd like...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

ya might be able to get that tight a radius by breaking the bond in both directions and then working the piece onto your form.

I think I'd try laminating thin pieces to get the radius.

[Richard Holub]

Paul Atkins- That's one cool idea you have there. I do have a lathe and perhapps I can play around with making one of those jigs (faceplate lathes). Never thought of using my lathe in that fashion. Thanks.

Ken Higginbotham- I'm familiar with the medalion/rosettes you are talking about. They use those, not only for aesthetic reasons but also to fix that problem you mentioned. The FlexTrim is only 2 1/4" wide and most of the pine trim is 2 1/2". The difference in width is "masked off" by using the rosette blocks. I was hoping NOT to use any rosettes and just continue the trim right through the curve. Since I HAD to use the FlexTrim I ended up using the rosettes. Some people also put one of those buttons directly on the top/center for looks.