Stanley 60-1/2 Block Plane

[Jim Crockett]

I read posts that say the older Stanley planes are readily available but other than ebay, I sure don't seem to find them. Woodcraft and Highland both have a 60-1/2 plane listed which I assume is new- does anyone have an opinion on these?

I have mixed feelings about buying a plane on ebay plus it seems that all of the reasonably decent ones are not selling for reasonable amounts any more. I'm sure that there are good honest sellers among those selling planes but I really don't want to lay out $40 or $50 and then get a piece of crap.

JimC

[Michael Faurot]

I've got the high angle version (Stanley 12-920 (http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=PLANES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=12-920&SDesc=Bailey%26%23174%3B+Block+Plane)). I think the low angle version is now numbered 12-960, instead of 60-1/2. My experience with this block plane, purchased new at Lowe's (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=97169-355-97169&lpage=none) for $30, is that it's okay. It took a bit of sweat equity to make it a decent user, but I was expecting that to be the case.

[Brian Ward]

I read posts that say the older Stanley planes are readily available but other than ebay, I sure don't seem to find them. Woodcraft and Highland both have a 60-1/2 plane listed which I assume is new- does anyone have an opinion on these?

Those are supposedly fine after tuning, but I don't have any first-hand info.


I have mixed feelings about buying a plane on ebay plus it seems that all of the reasonably decent ones are not selling for reasonable amounts any more. I'm sure that there are good honest sellers among those selling planes but I really don't want to lay out $40 or $50 and then get a piece of crap.

Most of my planes are oldies that I've gotten cheap on ebay, but when I was looking for a low-angle block plane, I considered the prices and the additional problems that these sometimes have (like chips behind the throat). So I decided to try the Veritas low-angle block plane. Haven't been sorry about that, not one bit...

[Justin Green]

I, too, am going to have to give serious thought before buying any further planes from ebay. I've bought two stanley's "as-is" from ebay recently. I'm a newbie at hand tools as well, so I'm not blaming the sellers. What I've learned is that, at least on the bench planes, is that some of these have real issues that you cannot see via pictures. I'm also buying planes for use, not collection.

I just received a Bailey #7 in the mail from an ebayer selling "as is". Everything is "as is". I paid a fair price and got exactly what was in the pictures. Only, the pictures didn't really show that one of the shoulders was bent about 1/8 inch out of square with the sole. That's a lot of metal to remove if I want the shoulder to be at a 90 degree angle with the sole.

I'm not blaming the ebay seller at all. Most probably don't recognize the issues with the planes they sell. Some might. I sure did not as a naive beginner. I don't blame them at all or doubt their honesty. That said, since I'm trying to build a collection of tools I can use, I will be buying them in person at flea markets and swap meets from now on, and I will be taking a small square with me to check the shoulders and sole. I'm fair at polishing and scrubbing and have had pretty decent luck sharpening and adjusting my 1st #4 using scary sharp. It makes pretty nice shavings, at least as far as I can tell so far. I'm certain I can make the #7 work for me, but I won't be using it with a shooting board or in a manner that requires the shoulders to be in square. One clue that maybe should have warned me of the damage was both the tote and the knob were in bad shape.

Anyways, my two cents as a naive begginer neander!

[Jim Koepke]

I have bought many fine tools on eBay. There are a few points to consider before bidding.

1. I would seldom buy a tool that was "as is," and "if you buy it you are stuck with it." There are some sellers that will try to deceive bidders. Beware of when pictures show multiple angles yet somehow exclude one side or part of the subject. Ask for more pictures. I was looking at a plane for the tote and knob one time. The picture clearly showed a repair on the side. It was a piece of brass held on by 4 screws. I asked about the cracks in the wood and any other damage besides what was pictured. The said they had taken the handles off and they were complete without damage. They sent pictures, but did not think there was damage the casting. From their other listings, it was apparent this was the only plane they ever saw. I was the only bidder and bought it for about $15 including shipping. All the parts were good but the base. I have used the two brass straps and some of the eight screws holding it together. the broken base is handy for holding totes while they are being sanded or filed.

2. A lot of sellers don't know what they are doing. Before bidding, always look at what else they are selling. Also look at what they have sold through their feedback. If someone is selling a lot of tools but says they know nothing about them, be skeptical. Someone selling a lot of decorative stuff and there happens to be a plane in there, may know nothing about planes. Ask questions, request more pictures.

3. Sometimes there are buying frenzies. Look at completed sales and see what prices for the item being sought has been. Some bidders have a need to win and they will bid up the prices. Let them win and wait until they are out of the auctions. Don't be tempted to go above your price. Another one will come along and with patience, you will get one at your price if your price is at the low end of the ball park. If it is below the low end, you may eventually get lucky. One of the bidders that just had to have an item had buyers remorse after I stopped bidding and he won. He contacted me and asked if I wanted to buy the item. I declined. eBay has changed the IDs on bids to prevent this kind of sale. Who knows, he may have been a shill that got beat.

4. If there are damaged parts on a plane, it may have been dropped. Someone may have mistreated the plane. Sometimes totes will crack because of humidity changes, but the horn does not pop off all by it self. If one piece is broken, there may be more damage.

5. You can learn a lot about sellers by how they respond when you ask questions. If they do not reply or refuse to send more pictures, consider that when bidding.

6. Fuzzy pictures can mean a couple of things. It could mean the person is not very good at taking pictures, checking their other auctions will help to determine this. It could also mean they are trying to cover something up. I do not recall how many pictures eBay allows with a standard listing. Some sellers can put up 20 pictures and still not show anything other than they think they are doing art photography. With digital photography, there is no film or processing cost. A few more pictures should not be that hard to come by. Do not that a lot of sellers on eBay are actually contract sellers who present items for others. They may have problems getting more pictures. Often they know nothing and the item is boxed up and shelved after the pictures are taken. They may have an item that was "repaired" by the true seller and they have no awareness of the problem.

7. Be careful buying planes from someone who seems to have a lot of the same thing. They may have come from the local school district selling off the old wood shop items. One plane in the hands of a hundred students is likely to have been mistreated by more than just one of them.

I am sure there are a few more things to consider, but I have not shopped on eBay in a while. There is not much I am looking for and do not have a lot to spend at present.

If someone were to be looking at something on eBay, if you give me enough time, my opinion on an item is gladly given.

If you would like, even if you are not going to bid on an item, I would be happy to go over auctions on eBay and render an opinion. Not sure, but it might come in handy. Maybe we could both learn.

Currently, the only hole in my collection of planes is a #8. Not sure if I will ever get one, but if I see one at a good price and have the money at the time, I would consider such a purchase.

Since I have not been active on eBay, I have been looking in antique shops. Currently, they are hurting financially as is the whole nation. Prices have been coming down in some places. Some people have been bringing in more of the old "junque" in the garage. A lot of the stuff is just rusty broken junk. Occasionally though, someone will bring in a nice piece at a good price. This is especially why my favorites are the Antique Malls. A lot of different vendors under one roof. Usually, the person at the counter can not deal on the price unless it is their own.

By the same token, some antique stores overprice everything. Some people think just because it is in an antique store, its price should double. Look, be polite and leave.

Study the prices on eBay, they may not make sense, but the more you know about what something sells for and the more you know about you quarry, the less likely you are to pay too much or buy a dog. It is also more likely you can find a good one at a good price if you keep looking.

Finally, do not be desperate to get something. Tools and many things in life are like busses, if you miss one, there will be another one.

Remember, the hunt is half the fun, all you have to do is be lucky.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

I, too, am going to have to give serious thought before buying any further planes from ebay. I've bought two stanley's "as-is" from ebay recently. I'm a newbie at hand tools as well, so I'm not blaming the sellers. What I've learned is that, at least on the bench planes, is that some of these have real issues that you cannot see via pictures.

Can you tell us about the issues?

If possible include pictures.

jim

[Paul Atkins]

I have several (7+) 60 1/2 planes -two with Hock blades. These are my favorite 'go to' planes. They just seem to fit me. I've picked them up over the years pieces and parts and complete planes. Antique stores - flea markets- other woodworkers - yard sales - I'm still keeping an eye out. They are out there.

[Eric Brown]

Here are a few good dealers:
http://www.handplane.com/
http://thebestthings.com/
http://www.finetoolj.com/

They know tools and tell the truth.
Decent prices too!

Eric

[Justin Green]

Can you tell us about the issues?

If possible include pictures.

jim


Hey Jim! I will have to post pics when I get home.

1) As I mentioned, the #7 I bought has one shoulder that isn't quite square with the bottom.
2) The cutter/iron is also bent, which makes it a bit more difficult to flatten the back of the blade (have to hang the blade off the edge of the stone/glass). With the chip breaker attached and tightened, the cutter appears flat.


3) A number four that I bought has a cracked Y lever/fork. The seller probably didn't even realize it as the lever/fork was covered with quite a bit of grime. I discovered it upon disassembly and cleaning.
4) The knob and tote bolts were both bent, which was not something easily seen with the plane assembled.
5) The tote was broken and incomplete, but unlike the previous two issues, I knew this ahead of time and purchased the plane anyway.

Again, I'm not upset with anyone about these issues, they're really old tools that were used and probably abused and definitely neglected at some point. I bought them to refurbish and use. If it sounds like complaining, it's not intended to be. I'm merely sharing part of my learning curve.

The number 4 can be fixed by simply finding a fork, knob and tote bolts, and the tote itself. For what I paid for the plane, however, the final cost to get the complete parts will still be under $40, which I'm satisfied with. The #7 can be fixed up by replacing the blade and then tuning it up, although I doubt the shoulder issue can be fixed by me. I'm assuming that this won't hinder planing operations except for shooting, which I won't be doing for a while anyways.

I guess my point was these types of issues are easier to see in person. And for me, even in person, these are things I might not have noticed before now. But I will in the future!

Something else I've learned. I have a Veritas scrub plane which is awesome. I bought it two years ago. When I pulled it out of hiding recently, it had a few rusty spots on the iron and on the heads of the set screws which screw in through the sides of the shoulder to adjust the iron. My philosophy going forward will be to treat all of my hand planes (and other tools) with the same care I go my rifles and shotguns... clean/oil after every use to keep them looking sharp (no pun intended!).

Oh, and P.S. Jim - I found a #8 in one of my local antique stores for $22. It's all original, but in need of some TLC, but for that price... I haven't typed all my planes yet, so I'm not sure when it was made... I believe pre-war based on the logo on the iron, but I haven't gotten the years narrowed any further than that - daughter requires math tutoring and social studies studying quite often!

Also, an offer - I'm going to Canton Trade Days this weekend (http://cantontradedays.com/)... This is a very very large flea market. There are always a handful of old tool peddlers there and I will be on the hunt! I've never paid attention to planes before while at Canton, so this ought to be fun. There's a good chance that one of these guys may have a box of parts or spares - if anyone is looking for anything in particular, let me know. I need new totes for a #7 and a #4. If a box of parts is there and cheap enough, I may just buy the entire thing and post pictures for you guys.

This is an illness and I'm really enjoying it.

[David Myers]

Justin,

Please do report back on the quality/quantity of tools at Canton. I've been contemplating going out there.

[Joel Goodman]

I have had good experiences with Sandy Moss for old tools. As for the the new Stanley I would avoid it.

[Douglas Brummett]

I read posts that say the older Stanley planes are readily available but other than ebay, I sure don't seem to find them. Woodcraft and Highland both have a 60-1/2 plane listed which I assume is new- does anyone have an opinion on these?

I have mixed feelings about buying a plane on ebay plus it seems that all of the reasonably decent ones are not selling for reasonable amounts any more. I'm sure that there are good honest sellers among those selling planes but I really don't want to lay out $40 or $50 and then get a piece of crap.

JimC

Best deals to be had on e-bay are underpriced buy-it-now auctions, as-is auctions, or poorly photographed auctions. That said, I have taken a few risks on these deals. Fortunately all have turned out well for me. Knowing what I know now I would rather pay double for a well pictured plane from a solid seller who advertises a return policy. Life is too short to go chasing the best deal. I only need a handful of stanley planes. So now I pick what I want and hunt by these rules. I think in the long run it saves money ;)

Regarding new low-end block planes...
IME a good Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen is only about $150. It will be tuned, have a new/thick blade, and only require a quick honing. The cheaper plane will run you $30-40, will have a thin blade of questionable material, and wil require some amount of tuning. Add $20 worth of sand paper to the price and 1-3 hours of lapping and tuning time. Basically you are at half the cost of a quality tool. It is worth the little bit extra here to get the better tool IME.
That said, I did have a Groz LA block that I was able to tune quite well. It worked great for what it was. The thin blade did chatter a bit and wasn't seated the best. The lever cap wiggled and allowed the iron to move if you hit a knot. The iron rusted like nobody's business even oiled and waxed. It took me a good 2-3 hours of tuning to make it work well. It was comfortable and I did like the adjustments of it though. I would recommend the Groz to someone who was budget limited.

[Richard Niemiec]

FWIW, two weeks ago I picked up a "newer" (1990s) english made 60 1/2, all rusted up and sorry looking from sitting in the bed of a framer's pickup for a few years, paid $5; spent about 30 minutes cleaning it up, fettling a little bit and sharpening the blade. Works fine, and I've got LV and LN low angles as well. I'll use this one as my traveler when I'm working outside the shop.