Griz Jointers: Assuming SIZE MATTERS, is 8" enough? [Archive]

Tom Overthere

01-28-2009, 2:46 PM

Eric DeSilva

01-28-2009, 2:52 PM

I've got an older 8" Grizz--think its a G0500. I would seriously try to discourage anyone serious about woodworking from getting a 6" jointer, but going up above 8" is different terrain. I use raw stock in the 6"-8" range a lot. The premium you pay for 8"+ stock, on the other hand, makes it far less common.

Would I like a 12" jointer? Yes.

Have I had times where 8" was not enough? Yes.

Has that occurred sufficiently that I regret buying my used 8" jointer for $300, as opposed to spending $2K+ on a 12" jointer? No.

Fred Hargis

01-28-2009, 2:57 PM

For me, there are times that the 8" hasn't been enough. The cost of moving up from the 8" isn't really the problem. It's the size and weight of the larger jointers that keeps me from upsizing. Going to a 12" from an 8" is a much bigger deal than moving to an 8" from a 6". Ideally, your jointer would equal your planer....at least in my opinion. As for the other stuff...I've always found my 2 HP motor to be plenty (Jet 8") with knives. I understand the spiral heads can use more power. And since I rarely change my depth of cut, I'm not sure I would see an advantage to the parallelogram bed. I think the main advantage is the gap spanning the knives, and I've seen no problem with that on mine. Someday I may get around all this by buying a combo machine...but for sure I don't see me buying one of the larger jointers. Even so, I smack my lips with envy when I see David Marks use his 16 incher.

glenn bradley

01-28-2009, 3:01 PM

Q1. Do you guys find that 8" (not 9-1/4") is always enough to take the twist and/or cup out of every board you work with? Or are there times when the G0586's extra 1.25" of table width would make the difference?

For what I do the G0490X has been fine. My 6" was inadequate for almost everything. If I could have fit it, I would have gotten a 12". The taller fence is definitly a good thing for me; YMMV.

Q2. Are parallelogram beds A LOT easier to deal with when setting up, changing/adjusting blades and raising/lowering beds?

Yes.

Q3. Does the extra HP (3 instead of 2) make a noticeable difference in jointing hardwoods? Or does 2HP work well?

My experience was with a 2HP 4 knife vs. a 3HP spiral so I can't really say. I wouldn't want to give up my 3HP based on jointing hardwoods with the spiral head.

Q4. Are these features worth paying the extra $300 for the newer G0490? a) parallelogram beds b) 1 extra HP c) mobile base

Yes.

Q5. Has serious work ever indicated that you need a 12" jointer such as the G0690? http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Parallelogram-Jointer-w-4-Knife-Cutterhead/G0609

Depends on what you do. I have never needed a 12" but I would like to have one (for no good reason; grunt, grunt).

I want to buy my first jointer for $595 rather than $895 (or $1,795!) but I want to "bring enough gun" and also wish to avoid any important shortcomings that might exist in the older G0586...

That price point excludes the G0490X and the 12" so I'm not sure where you're going with this. The G0586 is a nice machine.

Jason Beam

01-28-2009, 3:02 PM

I own the G0586. Aside from the built-in mobile base, I can't say that it's any better or worse than the G0490. A very close friend of mine owns the 490. It's also an incredible jointer. They're both absolutely great machines.

I didn't have to setup my tables - they were perfect out of the crate. My friend's were, too. So I can't really speak to the parallelogram adjustment - haven't needed to. I've had the jointer for about 3 years now and have run thousands of feet over it. I'm still on my first set of blades. I did have to buy a mobile base for my shop, and I do like the built-in one on the 490 better than any other options out there. I like it, but I don't $300 like it.

Horsepower. I've run full 8" wide hard maple over 3yr old knives - taking about 1/16" of a cut. It was fine. If the motor bogged down, I couldn't tell it. I DID replace the stock v-belts it comes with with link belts but only because 1) the stock belts had some pretty stiff "set" in 'em and vibrated like heck and 2) I already had enough 3/8" link belt laying around. My friend put a link belt on his, too, but I'm not sure he had any problems with the stock one.

When we bought ours (he was about 8 months behind me), the 490 price was only about $75 more than the 586 once you'd bought a mobile base. Back then, it might have been worth it for the extra 1hp, built in mobility and potentially easier adjustment of parallelogram beds. Having known my G0586 for 3 years now, and his for 2, I can say without a doubt that I don't regret for a second my purchase. The longer infeed table still bugs me, too. He doesn't regret his purchase, though, either. Both are incredibly capable machines. I honestly can't say I noticed the table width difference and i've run big heavy boards over both of them (8/4 8" wide beech on his, 12/4 8" wide maple on mine).

Now ... as to whether an 8" is wide enough. Well I thought so. I sure was convinced it was plenty for awhile there. Then I bought a G0513x2 - 17" bandsaw with 12" resaw. Couple that with my 12 1/2" planer and I am starting to wonder if I shouldn't have 12" of jointing capacity, too. I have lots of 8-12" wide boards that I'd sure like to keep wide ... so i've been halfway considering the possibility of matching my jointer to the other width-wise tools. That also means my CMS should probably get upgraded, too. My wife is not pleased to hear this :P

You can't go wrong with any of 'em. It really comes down to whether you will want to use all 12" or more with any kind of frequency. I plan to, at least for the forseeable future. Though, I think if I'm gonna replace the 586, I'll also replace the planer and maybe find me one of those real nice european 16"-18" combo machines instead. Floorspace would get a little cramped with two big machines in my shop. :)

Tom Overthere

01-28-2009, 3:04 PM

Thanks a lot for the detailed answers, guys.

Is there some trick for jointing cup or twist out of a board that's wider than an 8" jointer bed, and cutter?

Matt Benton

01-28-2009, 3:27 PM

Is there some trick for jointing cup or twist out of a board that's wider than an 8" jointer bed, and cutter?

Planer sled.

I needed a J/P combo due to space contraints, so a 12" jointer was pretty much the cheapest option. If you are also considering buying a planer, I would consider a combo machine...

John Hedges

01-28-2009, 3:31 PM

I have the GO490 and I would get the 586 if I were you. The 490 seems nicer on paper but I cant recall any piece of machinery having so many reported problems on this and other forums. Seems like you either get a good one or a lemon (which is what I got). I did not realize the 586 had a 9-1/4" capacity. That would be the dealbreaker in my mind. On a separate note, I think if I were ever to buy an older machine it would be a jointer. They just don't make em like they used to and the old ones are not only beauty's but are a great value for a little elbow grease. As far as the 3hp motor it is WAY overkill on the 490. The 490 is a clone of the old Delta DJ20 which came with a 1.5 hp motor and I cant recall ever hearing anyone complain about that jointer being underpowered. So if it was between the 2 listed I would go with the 586, but I would get a PM, a used DJ20 or some old iron first.

Rod Sheridan

01-28-2009, 3:34 PM

The older (discontinued) G0586 has a table size of 9-1/4" x 75" http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/G0586

The newer G0490 has a more narrow table size of 8" x 76-5/16" http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Jointer-with-Parallelogram-Beds/G0490

Q1. Do you guys find that 8" (not 9-1/4") is always enough to take the twist and/or cup out of every board you work with? Or are there times when the G0586's extra 1.25" of table width would make the difference?

No, there are times that I've needed a wider jointer, so I purchased a Hammer A3-31.

Q2. Are parallelogram beds A LOT easier to deal with when setting up, changing/adjusting blades and raising/lowering beds? Or are the "traditional" beds of the G0586 easy ehough to deal with?

Having owned a non parallelogram 8" jointer for two decades (General) I never had to shim the beds so I cannot comment. When I worked in industry all the jointers were standard ramp type and they worked fine for decades.

Q3. Does the extra HP (3 instead of 2) make a noticeable difference in jointing hardwoods? Or does 2HP work well?

At 8" 1 HP would be suitable, so there's no reason to go to 3. I believe my General was 1 HP and it worked great.

Q4. Are these features worth paying the extra $300 for the newer G0490? a) parallelogram beds b) 1 extra HP c) mobile base

A) no B) no C) depends upon whether you need to move your jointer. Mine is on a mobile base because I need to move it.

Q5. Has serious work ever indicated that you need a 12" jointer such as the G0690? http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Parallelogram-Jointer-w-4-Knife-Cutterhead/G0609

I bought a Hammer A3-31 which is a 12 inch jointer/planer combo. It replaced a General 8" jointer and 14" planer, so yes I needed one. Obviously there wasn't anything wrong technically with the General equipment, it's arguably the best made in NA light industrial equipment.

I want to buy my first jointer for $595 rather than $895 (or $1,795!) but I want to "bring enough gun" and also wish to avoid any important shortcomings that might exist in the older G0586...

Thanks

I suggest that instead of buying your first jointer, you buy your last jointer and save yourself some time and money........Regards, Rod.

John Hedges

01-28-2009, 4:00 PM

I suggest that instead of buying your first jointer, you buy your last jointer and save yourself some time and money

Very well put. I remember my first jointer was a 6" General International, and although this was also an Asian import it was a real joy to use and VERY well made. I guess part of what turns me off to my Grizzly is that when I compare the build quality of that jointer to my 490 there is no contest, the GI was much better. If I had it to do over again I would definitely spend the extra $$ on PM or General if I was to buy new.

glenn bradley

01-28-2009, 6:03 PM

Thanks a lot for the detailed answers, guys.

Is there some trick for jointing cup or twist out of a board that's wider than an 8" jointer bed, and cutter?

+1 Planer Sled: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=58735

Jim Andrew

01-28-2009, 8:45 PM

Depends on how you buy or saw your lumber. I have a small bandsaw mill and saw my own lumber, most of it wider than 8". Had a smaller jointer and sold it and got the go609 12" jointer. Would have really liked to got the 16" jointer, as that would cover most of the boards I saw. Found a pretty nice board today, was 14" wide, so I sawed it down the middle before planing it, then found it was very nice, wished I had just cut off the edges down to 12".

Tom Overthere

01-29-2009, 1:15 PM

I needed a J/P combo due to space contraints, so a 12" jointer was pretty much the cheapest option. If you are also considering buying a planer, I would consider a combo machine... But the jointer beds seem kinda short. For example, the G0633 bed is only 60" long.

Griz 8" jointer beds are at least a foot longer - between 72" and 76" long.

Do you guys think 60" is too short for effective jointing?

Wilbur Pan

01-29-2009, 1:22 PM

Thanks a lot for the detailed answers, guys.

Is there some trick for jointing cup or twist out of a board that's wider than an 8" jointer bed, and cutter?

Hand planes. ;)

Wilbur Pan

01-29-2009, 1:24 PM

But the jointer beds seem kinda short. For example, the G0633 bed is only 60" long.

Griz 8" jointer beds are at least a foot longer - between 72" and 76" long.

Do you guys think 60" is too short for effective jointing?

Depends on what you are going to be jointing.

I have a 10" jointer/planer combination machine, and have jointed boards up to 8 feet long on it, even though it has a "short" bed at 40 inches.

Tom Overthere

01-29-2009, 1:35 PM

+1 Planer Sled: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=58735 Glenn ==
Thanks for following up on Matt's Planer Sled suggestion, with a link to your excellent tutorial.

QUESTION: After your first pass through the planer (workpiece atop sled), how do you reposition the workpiece+sled for the second pass?

Do you raise the planer's cutter and slide the workpiece+sled back to the infeed side - and then lower the cutter (plus another 1/8") for pass #2?

Or are you lifting the workpiece+sled and carrying it back to the infeed side of the planer (ugh)?

Tom Overthere

01-29-2009, 1:41 PM

Depends on what you are going to be jointing. I have a 10" jointer/planer combination machine, and have jointed boards up to 8 feet long on it, even though it has a "short" bed at 40 inches.Wilbur ==
Seems like 20" of infeed + 20" of outfeed is not enough flat surface to ensure a straight 8-foot board edge...

What do I know? I gots no jointer (yet). But the physics seem to back up my concern... Now a 40" HAND PLANE (per your suggestion) is another story! :D

Brian Kincaid

01-29-2009, 1:43 PM

Q1. Do you guys find that 8" is always enough
Q2. Are parallelogram beds A LOT easier to deal with
Q3. Does the extra HP (3 instead of 2) make a noticeable difference
Q4. Are these features worth paying the extra $300 for the newer G0490?
Q5. Has serious work ever indicated that you need a 12" jointer

I have a G0490, I work with 8"x2" oak right from the sawmill, then air dried (in which time it shrinks to maybe 6" x 1 3/4").
Q1 8" is never enough, but for 95% of my work it is enough. The other 5% can be handled by my Stanley #6 and #8 then to the planer. It's just like everything else: for example the only way to set up your shop to handle every project without moving a machine is to have infinite space.
Q2 Yes you must get parallelogram beds, not only for adjustment but for the way they move when you change depth of cut.
Q3 3HP loses speed when face jointing 1/32" off of a 6" wide board. I would not recommend getting less than 3HP.
Q4 For me, YES.
Q5 For me, NO.

Good luck with your decision, I hope this helps.
Brian

Brian Kincaid

01-29-2009, 1:48 PM

Is there some trick for jointing cup or twist out of a board that's wider than an 8" jointer bed, and cutter?
For twist it depends on how severe, with serious twist the board might keep moving as you machine it, making your project a mess, or causing you to re-machine what will end up as firewood. If it's not serious you can back your fence off and machine the corners that are the problem by skewing the board off each side of the jointer tables.

For cup I recommend ripping, edge jointing, then glue-up before face jointing. This will save you a lot of material, and a lot of extra work.

Brian

Joe Jensen

01-29-2009, 1:59 PM

On parallelogram. Good jointers never need alignment, well maybe only once every 30-50 years. I had a PM60 for 18 years and it never needed adjustment. When I bought it, 8" parallelogram style jointers were just appearing. Several heavily experienced guys back then felt that american iron with quality heavy castings were fine with dovetails. If you bought an import, back then, the castings were a lot lighter and they didn't use the same quality of cast iron. They advised that if you bought import buy a parallelogram. This was in 1990. The imports were not nearly as good back then, so I don't know if the advice holds today. I do know that my 18 yer old dovetail way pm60 was perfect for the whole 18 years I owned it, and the SCMI parallelogram machine was off quite a bit when I bought it used. It is a 1975 machine, and I bought it last year so who knows who did what to it. Adjusting it to "perfect" took me a couple of hours, and I found that even with a 4 foot precision straight edge, seeing how it cut was the final way to dial it in...joe

Paul Johnstone

01-29-2009, 2:03 PM

Thanks a lot for the detailed answers, guys.

Is there some trick for jointing cup or twist out of a board that's wider than an 8" jointer bed, and cutter?

I will rip it into two pieces, join and reglue.

Maybe not ideal, but it's not bad.

I get boards 12-14" wide mixed in with the order from my supplier, so I have to do some extra ripping.

Also, wide boards tend (IMO) to be more prone to cupping, so when you rip them down the middle, you have less wood to remove on the jointer and planer.

Paul Johnstone

01-29-2009, 2:08 PM

Do you guys think 60" is too short for effective jointing?

For me, yes, that would be way too small.. but I do a lot of built-ins/shelves. Just about everything I do has a piece 6 or 7 feet long, so a combo wouldn't work for me.

I tried rigging roller stands, etc when I had a short bed jointer. I know some people have success with that, but it made a mess of the board when I did it.. could never get it just right.

Anway, other people build things that seldom use such long boards, so it isn't an issue. Also, keep in mind .. if you join 2" thick stock, it's a lot harder to balance the wood on a shorter bed (more weight to fight).

So, think about the stuff you build.. for me, length of bed is much more important than extra width.

Anthony Whitesell

01-29-2009, 2:13 PM

The older (discontinued) G0586 has a table size of 9-1/4" x 75" http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/G0586

The newer G0490 has a more narrow table size of 8" x 76-5/16" http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Jointer-with-Parallelogram-Beds/G0490

Q1. Do you guys find that 8" (not 9-1/4") is always enough to take the twist and/or cup out of every board you work with? Or are there times when the G0586's extra 1.25" of table width would make the difference?

I recently purchased a G0490. I'm glad I didn't get anything narrower. But I don't think I could have afforded anything more expensive. I found the G0490 to be a great compromise.

Q2. Are parallelogram beds A LOT easier to deal with when setting up, changing/adjusting blades and raising/lowering beds? Or are the "traditional" beds of the G0586 easy ehough to deal with?

I haven't had the opportunity to work with both the parallogram and the dovetail adjustments. I've only worked with the G0490 parallogram adjustment. I will say the bump adjustment of the G0490 leaves a something to be desired. A handwheel adjuster would be much better.

Q3. Does the extra HP (3 instead of 2) make a noticeable difference in jointing hardwoods? Or does 2HP work well?

I can't advise on this point, I've only owned the 3HP jointer. But I've never heard it bog down.

Q4. Are these features worth paying the extra $300 for the newer G0490? a) parallelogram beds b) 1 extra HP c) mobile base

a) The big difference between the dovetail and the parallogram adjustment is that the parallogram ways maintain a constant distance from the cutterhead. I don't know what size gap range were talking about with the dovetail adjustment. As for adjusting the beds, the outfeed is only adjusted when changing knives and I don't adjust the infeed that often. Usually I run 1/32" to 1/16" of an inch and make lots of little passes.
b) Because I don't really load (make thick cuts) my G0490, I could probably get away with the 2HP, but since I have the 3HP I'll never know and haven't had a problem.
c)The built in mobile is nice. But I would have had to fork over the cash of a base. A base to support a 600 pound jointer with that size foot print would probably set you back $100.

Q5. Has serious work ever indicated that you need a 12" jointer such as the G0690? http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Parallelogram-Jointer-w-4-Knife-Cutterhead/G0609

There are a few times that it would be nice to have had the 12" width but I wouldn't afford the extra width. There are also times that 12" wasn't enough. I will note that the first project pieces that were run on my G0490 were 6 1/2" wide, making me very glad I didn't opt for the 6" machine.

I want to buy my first jointer for $595 rather than $895 (or $1,795!) but I want to "bring enough gun" and also wish to avoid any important shortcomings that might exist in the older G0586...

Thanks

I posted a poll a while back based on bed width, length, cutterhead, and adjustment. The machines were 6 vs 8, short vs long bed, spiral (not helix) vs straight, parallogram vs dovetail.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=95461

Rod Sheridan

01-29-2009, 2:40 PM

I have a G0490,

Q3 3HP loses speed when face jointing 1/32" off of a 6" wide board. I would not recommend getting less than 3HP.

Brian

Brian, are you serious that your 8 inch jointer can't take a 1/32" pass from a 6" wide board without slowing down?

My General 8 inch was 1 HP and it could do that with no slowing down whatsoever.

The new General jointer is 1 1/2HP and that's for a light industrial class machine.

There must be something wrong with your machine, glazed belts/poor belt tension, dull knives, poorly machined pulleys etc, or Grizzly is using ponies instead of horses to rate their motors.:D

Regards, Rod.

Tom Overthere

01-29-2009, 2:42 PM

Thanks, guys. Based on all comments, it looks like it's an 8" jointer and a 15" planer with a DIY sled for me.

I'd LOVE to buy that G0586 for just $595, but have read some mixed reviews. On the other hand, I read some references to vibration problems and misalignment or lack-of-flatness bed issues with the G0490.

Is there any consensous regarding problems (or lack thereof) with these two? Are the likely issues correctable via straightedge+square+dial caliper+shim stock?

Jason Beam

01-29-2009, 2:56 PM

If you want an 8" jointer, the 586 is hard to beat ... Like i said before, it's a fantastic machine and has more than enough power for its size. A little vibration with the lumpy belts was all I had to deal with. I think I paid $625 for mine, so if I were you i'd jump on that puppy. I honestly am not convinced that spending any more money on the same size machine is anything short of wasting your money. I'm also quite biased being a perfectly satisfied G0586 owner. :)

guy knight

01-29-2009, 3:00 PM

i had the go586 nice jointer went to the go609 and added a Byrd head i try to buy the widest wood i can and allot is over 8" so yes it is worth it to me to go the 12" size

Wilbur Pan

01-29-2009, 3:46 PM

Wilbur ==
Seems like 20" of infeed + 20" of outfeed is not enough flat surface to ensure a straight 8-foot board edge...

What do I know? I gots no jointer (yet). But the physics seem to back up my concern... Now a 40" HAND PLANE (per your suggestion) is another story! :D

Well, I don't have an eight foot straightedge, but a check with a four-foot level showed that it was pretty straight.

I should also mention that my neighbor was helping me with feeding these boards. But my point is that I think that long beds for a jointer, although nice, are not a necessity. I've found the extra width on my jointer to be much more useful than a long bed.

However, for the price of an 8" jointer and a 15" planer, I'd actually get Grizzly's 12" jointer/planer combo. You get more jointer capacity for the same price of the two machines, and it's bed is a whopping 60" long! ;)

Joe Chritz

01-29-2009, 5:17 PM

8" is a fine size unless you need to face joint a 9" board. :D

When I had a 6" I had lots of boards that were 7" and now I have an 8" I have lots of 9" boards. I expect if I went to a 12" I would have lots of 13" boards.

I have a Grizzly 8" that I put on a Byrd head and I am very happy with it. The tables are flat and coplanar as checked with a 36" starett precison straight edge and it gives fine service with no signs of ever bogging down. I do like the spiral head.

My dad has a powermatic and it is a fine machine but I can tell no difference in the use of either.

Joe

Bob Luciano

01-29-2009, 5:29 PM

Tom If I were you I would look for a used General or PM 8" seems lots of shops are closing and the old PM 60 seems common in shops. That there is telling in itself, also you might actually get to run a board through it to see if you like the cut. I can't say anything about Grizzly other than I doubt you will see any in my shop unless purchased used I have read far too many stories about shipping problems. They all seem to get resolved but I don't like spending time on the phone with customer service reps. Wish you luck in your shopping

Cody Colston

01-29-2009, 8:47 PM

I've got the GO586 and love it. The beds were perfect right out of the crate and like Jason, I'm still on my first set of knives, too. The 586 is a major step up from the 6" Delta that I used previously.

Now, is 8" width enough? Most of the time, yes. I buy my stock rough cut and the majority of it is 8" wide or less. Even the wider stuff usually ends up less than 8" once I joint an edge and rip off imperfections on the other.

While there are occassionally times when I wish I had a wider jointer, I do this as a hobby and there are limitations to what I'm willing to spend on tools. Most of my stationary tools are Grizzly and I certainly didn't plan it that way when I started woodworking. But, I have found their tools to be good performers and they are an absolute bargain as far as price.

I've had one issue with shipping damage and that was a bent upper door on my GO513 bandsaw. I was at work and my wife signed the delivery ticket without noticing the damage. Grizzly replaced the door pronto with no questions asked. Good folks in my book.

I am in no way affiliated with Grizzly Industrial. I'm just a satisfied customer.

Bob Luciano

01-29-2009, 8:53 PM

Lighten up most things in life are a crap shoot if you don't believe me look at divorce rates

Chris Padilla

01-30-2009, 12:38 PM

When it comes to woodworking, bigger is usually better. The thing is, this hobby evolves over time and sometimes you just don't know what you'll need down the road.

Thomas S Stockton

01-30-2009, 1:38 PM

I didn't browse the whole thread but both those jointers are 8" so that is the widest board you can joint.
I have a 12" jointer and there are times when it is not wide enough, I also have a 12" planer and it is not wide enough at times either. You aren't going to find a big enough jointer unless you spend a whole lot of money to fit every board you're ever going to use, the key is to find ways to work around the limitations, these include flattening the board with a handplane and then sending it through a jointer or making one of the sleds to use your planer to flatten the board. Personally I use a handplane much faster than making a sled. I really only need to do it this way every couple of years so it's not a big deal.
An 8" jointer is going to work for you probably 95% or more of the time, it is a really nice usable size and a good compromise between a 6" and a big old aircraft carrier of a jointer and when you out grow it you can always sell it and upgrade.
Don't worry about HP 2 will work unless your taking real deep cuts.
Parallelogram or wedge bed design, both work fine the first seems to be the fashion these days, a lot of real nice jointers are built both ways , the parallelograms are pretty easy to adjust which is nice but I'm not convinced in a well made jointer it matters.
I did serious work for years with a 6" jointer, I think part of the problem stems from TV shows that show these greats shops that the hosts have with huge machines and that is what you need. For the big shows like New Yankee workshop they are mostly donated so why not get the best other shows like Woodworks with David Marks he started with smaller tools and slowly upgraded over the years to what he has now and has done some really nice work by figuring out how to work around his tools limitations. So what I'm trying to say is that creativity and skill is much more important than having the nicest most perfect shop.
Tom

Brian Kincaid

01-30-2009, 1:59 PM

Brian, are you serious that your 8 inch jointer can't take a 1/32" pass from a 6" wide board without slowing down?
There must be something wrong with your machine, ..., dull knives, ...
Regards, Rod.

You are right on the money. Still haven't touched up the factory blades. They need it. A lot. :eek:
I still stand by the 3hp requirement, though. I consider it a big hassle to have to constantly dress your blades to keep things moving. A little headroom in the HP lets you finish your project if you don't need a glass finish in that particular operation.

Brian

Chip Lindley

01-31-2009, 12:24 AM

You said, "G0586 has a table size of 9-1/4"

But the cutter head width is still 8" !!! Table width has little or no bearing on anything at all! You will not theoretically surface a board wider than 8" on any joiner with an 8" cutter head!

A 12" would be very nice! BIG BUCKS NICE! I just moved UP to a Delta DJ20 after many many years using an old Rockwell 6". What you HAVE is what you will learn to USE!! I surfaced a zillion BF on that little Rockwell. I had to rip a few boards and glue them back afterward. I flattened and jointed a 20ft long piece of red oak one time!! I got the results I wanted, one way or the other!

Tom Overthere

01-31-2009, 1:12 AM

You said, "G0586 has a table size of 9-1/4"
But the cutter head width is still 8" !!! Table width has little or no bearing on anything at all! You will not theoretically surface a board wider than 8" on any joiner with an 8" cutter head! Yeah, but when there's a lot of twist (or cup), the flat of the board isn't touching the bed - only a couple of points are. So I think it'd be an advantage to have as wide a table as possible - regardless of whether or not the cutter runs the full width of the bed.

If you run one point of a twisted 8.5" board over some part of the that 8" cutter, while some other point (of the board) is sliding on some other point of the bed, even that small-area cut makes progress toward flattening the board.

If that makes sense, it suggests that a wider bed is always better... It's too late and I'm not sure if I'm making sensezzzzzzzzzzz.

Sean Rainaldi

01-31-2009, 11:04 AM

Planer sled.

I needed a J/P combo due to space contraints, so a 12" jointer was pretty much the cheapest option. If you are also considering buying a planer, I would consider a combo machine...

Dang. Had I read this thread about a year and a half ago, instead of buying my 8 inch griz jointer and 15 inch planer, I would have just bought the 20 inch planer instead and built a couple of sleds for it.

maybe i should sell my jointer hmmm...

I looked at that planer - jointer combo machine last year, I was just worried about it's weight and size.

Ed Calkins

01-31-2009, 1:27 PM

Hi, re. combo machines has anyone had any experience with the minimax FS-30 (12" combo)? I am close to buying a jointer and had settled on the G0490X -- and now this thread has opened up the thought process somewhat. I have always been suspicious of combo anything -- although not related, I remember my motorcycle days and the combo street/dirt bikes -- could do both but not good at either. Griz is good at providing lots of info and marketing and lots of people have them so you get good forum feedback. The combo units seem to be just the opposite (at least here in the USA). Also the used iron crowd presents a good argument that I respect --- however, finding one, knowing how to check it out, pick it up, and then doing some level of restoration ranges from difficult to impossible -- especially if you knew you could get a "good" new one which also seems to be a crap shoot with shipping damage and less than 6 sigma build quality. Anyway -- I am sounding too frustrated and that is not the case but it is confusing to the overly research prone individual. I do have a portable makita (2012 i think) planer that I have only used twice but it worked well for two simple projects. Now that I am stepping up my hobby and getting at least an 8" jointer I'm not sure a portable planer is enough, time will tell possibly? So after all that rambling, two questions:
1) any experience or opinion on the minimax FS30 combo jointer/planer?

2) Ignoring cost and space (I know that is hard to do), is a combo unit (assume 12" with a shorter bed) better than a dedicated 8" long bed jointer and a good quality 12" to 15" dedicated planer?

Thanks in advance for the comments, Ed :confused:

Tom Overthere

02-03-2009, 11:24 PM

I have a 12" jointer and there are times when it is not wide enough, I also have a 12" planer and it is not wide enough at times either....Personally I use a handplane much faster than making a sled. I really only need to do it this way every couple of years so it's not a big deal.

An 8" jointer is going to work for you probably 95% or more of the time...Don't worry about HP 2 will work unless your taking real deep cuts.

Parallelogram or wedge bed design, both work fine...a lot of real nice jointers are built both ways.

I think part of the problem stems from TV shows that show these greats shops that the hosts have with huge machines...are mostly donated so why not get the best

So what I'm trying to say is that creativity and skill is much more important than having the nicest most perfect shop.
Tom Thanks, Tom

I somehow missed your post the first time around. Went back and re-read the thread to try once more to make a decision - and POP! - found your words of wisdom. I take all the points you made. Thanks.

Chip Lindley

02-04-2009, 9:34 AM

Tom, the point you make Does make sense! But, since I used a Rockwell 6" for many many years, ANY 8" jointer is LightYears ahead! Most jointer beds ARE wider than the cutter head on the inboard side to support the fence. But I would not let table width alone influence my decision on jointer buying. Once you get an 8 you will wish you had a 12....then a 16.....then an Aircraft Carrier! We make do with what we have until our needs totally outstrip our means....

Kevin Barnett

02-04-2009, 11:16 AM

I run a G0490X and a G0453Z. It is a good set up and they are good machines. For stock greater than 8" that needs to be jointed, I use a Performax drum sander. It can't hog off material like a planer, but realistically, how many times are you going to do this? The drum sander also has many other good uses as well. Most of my material coming out of the planer is pretty flat any way.

If I were on a budget, I'd save up more and go with the carbide head machines. It has advantages for people that don't have a lot of time for this hobby, don't like setting-up machines, and like better planed surfaces. Maybe you can save a little longer?...Or wait till a good buy used machine become available in your area.

As to the parallel vs dovetail design, it won't make a bit of difference once set up.

Tom Overthere

02-04-2009, 12:50 PM

...once you get an 8 you will wish you had a 12....then a 16.....then an Aircraft Carrier! We make do with what we have until our needs totally outstrip our means.... AMEN! If I can pull an order together (jointer, planer, bandsaw, etc @ $5K+) before the pricing changes again, I'm going for the 8" Griz G0490 with FREE Shipping.

I'm nervous about buying TONS of equipment for THOUSANDS of dollars at the outset of what appears to be a world-wide DEPRESSION. I intend to make $ with this (not a hobby) so I'm really sweating it. :eek:

Ahhhh... If only hand planes, hand saws and brace-and-bit would suffice...:D

Tom Overthere

02-04-2009, 12:54 PM

If I were on a budget, I'd save up more and go with the carbide head machines.

Or wait till a good buy used machine become available in your area.

As to the parallel vs dovetail design, it won't make a bit of difference once set up.Thanks, Kevin ==

When you say "carbide head" do you mean the spiral multi-cutters?

Been running a WTB ad in my local CraigsList and attended a local "Woodworkers Guild" meeting last night. Seeing zero movement in used woodworking equipment.

The older dovetail machine price jumped, and the newer para machine is going with free shipping currently. My decision is made for me :D