? about Amish woodworking

[Jeff Cremers]

Since they probably aren't surfing the internet I guess one of you guys who live near them or know them could answer.

I was watching a commercial the other night for the Amish fireplaces with mantle. I'm not interested in buying one but noticed that they were using pocket hole joinery and thought to myself does the Amish use power tools. They said they were made by "The Amish". I have only been near the Amish in Iowa once and bought some rugs and fudge or something like that. Didn't see any 18volt DeWalts or anything. They are kinda weird but it is not for me to judge.

Thanks
Jeff

[Kyle Kraft]

I visited an Amish wood shop (commercial) in Shipshewana, IN one time. They had a Deutz air cooled diesel driven hydraulic power unit alongside the factory. All their machinery, which was somewhat newer, was driven with hydraulic motors. Instead of a lineshaft running the length of the building they had a pressure and a tank line. The lights were gas...like a Coleman lantern style. The front desk had a computer and a cash register...run by a diesel generator out back of course.

I can't recall seeing any cordless tools or Kreg stuff. They probably use them (the cordless) and charge them with the generator.

[Jim Becker]

Amish shops may not use electricity, but they do use "power tools". There is a nice specialty market out there for conversion of name brand stationary tools to run on alternative power arrangements, such as belt/shaft powered by diesel or hydraulics driven pumps turned by diesel engines.

BTW, those "Amish Fireplaces" are not really representative of the general Amish woodworking community... ;)

[Brian Effinger]

Some Amish do use power in the work aspects of their lives, but have none in their home life from what I hear.

[Matt Woessner]

Everyone is correct so far. Also, those people are not really Amish. The Amish will never show their faces for pictures or tv. I believe that is against their religion.

[Jeff Cremers]

thanks for the responses guys.


Jim- I'm sure its not a accurate representation of their work since "if you buy the mantle they will give you the fire part for FREE " :D

[Mike Henderson]

I visited an Amish woodworker in Pennsylvania. Except for the fact that he didn't use electricity, his shop was EXACTLY the same as any other woodworker. He had all the same tools (table saw lathe, jointer, etc.) but they were powered by other than electricity (I won't go into all the details because that's a discussion in itself). He was very friendly to me as another woodworker and freely discussed how he did things. One thing that was interesting was some kitchen chairs he makes. The crest rail had a design in it so I asked him if he carved those. He said, "No, I buy those from a supplier who presses the design into the wood."

His construction techniques were typical modern techniques, such as pocket screws (I didn't think to ask if he uses a battery operated drill, but he used compressed air for some of his portable tools). He had a spray booth exactly like you'd find anywhere else and his wife did a lot of the finishing.

My overall evaluation of his work is that it was nothing special. You could buy the same thing in a furniture store. The Amish are just people trying to make a living. Except where prohibited by their religion, they use all the same materials and techniques as other woodworkers. There's nothing "old fashioned" in the furniture they make, or in the techniques they use.

Mike

[Ben Rafael]

Amish can use electricity. They just cannot be connected to the outside world(or something like that). If they were on the grid then they would be connected; generators are not connected.
Some Amish dont have a problem with being photographed by outsiders.
But they do not photograph themselves or each other. You wont see family photo albums, wedding albums, graduation photos and certainly not Bar Mitzvah photos.

[Thomas Bank]

Years ago, we set my grandfather (in his seventies) up with a computer. He wrote two books about his local town and region, learned to keep the financial information for his lodge on a spreadsheet, and even kept in touch with the grandchildren by e-mail and IM.

In publishing the books, he went to a local (Ohio) Amish firm to do the printing. Everything for the printing business was in a building at the edge of their property and (as Kyle mentioned) the electronics were all run off a diesel generator. The proprietor even had a cell phone to keep in touch. Apparently electronics connected to "the grid" were a problem but on-site generators and batteries were no issue.

Between living near the Amish in Lancaster County of Pennsylvania and Holmes County in Ohio, I wouldn't begin to try to explain what is acceptable to them and what is not - it is more confusing than I've ever been able to follow. Then you get into the different sects of "Old Order," "New Order," Mennonite, and so forth and that just adds even more complexity to your question. :)

[Mark Uhlenkamp]

My brother lives a part of southern Iowa that has an active Amish community. He was told that some sects allow the use of power tools connected to the grid, as long as they did not own the tools, and the power was not connected to their property.
Leasing was one option he had listed along with renting shop space.

[Thomas Bank]

Mark's leasing or renting comment reminded me of another issue - they will hire English (non-Amish) to drive them if they are traveling out of their standard locale and there are people that do that as their entire business. Sort of like a travel agency for the Amish...

[Dave Lehnert]

All that "Junk Furniture" people talk about being sold at Wal-mart. It is made by the Mennonite. Kinda like a modern Amish.

http://www.saudervillage.org/home/default.asp

[Chris Rosenberger]

I believe all of the above comments about the Amish are true. The local Bishops set the rules for their communities. That is why things can vary widely from one community to another.

[David G Baker]

There is a kitchen cabinet maker that is Amish in my area. They do use power tools and do very fine work. As has been written the rules vary from community to community.
There are quite a few Amish families with in a few miles from where I live. We do quite a bit of business at one of there general store.
There are probably 5 Amish saw mills with in 20 miles of us. I haven't done business with them but plan to in the future.

[Chris Rosenberger]

All that "Junk Furniture" people talk about being sold at Wal-mart. It is made by the Mennonite. Kinda like a modern Amish.

http://www.saudervillage.org/home/default.asp

I believe you a wrong Dave. We have been to Sauder Village many times & have never heard or saw any reference to the Mennonite religion or way of life.

This a link to the history of Sauder furniture.

http://www.sauder.com/aboutsauder/history.asp?l=2

[Tom Majewski]

We were looking to buy an Amish built house in central PA last month. While I was in the barn I noticed a powered miter saw. AHA! I thought I found a cheater. When I looked closer at it he had converted it to air power and was using a gas powered compressor.

[Jeff Cremers]

We were looking to buy an Amish built house in central PA last month. While I was in the barn I noticed a powered miter saw. AHA! I thought I found a cheater. When I looked closer at it he had converted it to air power and was using a gas powered compressor.

For some reason the Cheater comment made me laugh.
Jeff

[Thomas Bank]

I believe you a wrong Dave.

It is true that Sauder Village was constructed by the founder of Sauder Furniture - Erie Sauder: http://www.saudervillage.org/history/ErieSauder.asp - and that he was a devout Mennonite: http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Sauder-Woodworking-Company-Company-History.html

But Sauder Village is meant to show living history of how things used to be done and not necessarily Mennonite history.

[Gene Howe]

In the 60's, my parents had a new home built in southern IL. The contractor and his framing crew were "English" but their trim subs and cabinet makers were Amish. The cabinetry was awesome but, what intrigued me was the manner in which the hung the doors. I watched one fellow hang an 1 3/8 solid oak paneled interior door by himself with the use of a wooden lever he operated with his foot to get the door plumb. When he was finished, the door would swing shut very slowly (maybe 45 seconds) and get slower as it reached the jamb. It just shut with a satisfying click of the latch and there was very little play when latched. Most amazing demonstration of trade craft I'd ever seen.

[Chris Rosenberger]

It is true that Sauder Village was constructed by the founder of Sauder Furniture - Erie Sauder: http://www.saudervillage.org/history/ErieSauder.asp - and that he was a devout Mennonite: http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Sauder-Woodworking-Company-Company-History.html

But Sauder Village is meant to show living history of how things used to be done and not necessarily Mennonite history.

Thank you for correcting me & providing the links. :)

[Matt Meiser]

We usually visit the Amish area south of Cleveland about once a year. Furniture is definitely big business and it isn't built much different than anywhere else. The finishes are mostly pre-cat finishes and a lot of parts are CNC-cut. We stayed at one campground that offered free "firewood" which was actually a trailer of offcuts. On many you could see the faint marks from the CNC machine's passes. Many of them have faxes, email, and web sites. I'm not sure who maintains the web sites, but the way I understand fax and email to work is that someone prints it all and brings it to them. We bought a couple items when I was just getting into woodworking and corresponded completely by letter.

Our dining room furniture, dresser, and my wife's jewelery chest are all Amish made and all are constructed as well or better than anything I do. All are about 8 years old now.

In the 8 years or so we've been going down there, there have been a lot of changes. One place we went has gone from a small retail shop upstairs with a wood shop underneath and a big chicken barn out back to the chicken barn being the shop with a huge cyclone system sitting outside and the old wood shop is now part of the retail space. I'm assuming the chickens made a nice meal at one of the local resturaunts. :D A lot of them have gone to specializing in one thing, like chairs, finishing, etc.

Sometimes its difficult to understand why some things are allowed and some aren't, but then again I was raised Catholic and don't understand a lot of the Catholic Church's rules either!

BTW, Sauder had a division that makes liturgical furniture which I think is a little higher quality than the Sauder furniture we know.

[Scott Vigder]

I live in Northeast Ohio, and Amish folk are all over the place. Here's an interesting observation.

"Amish" is a religious denomination of Christianity. Funny how you never hear about those Presbyterian Retailers or Catholic Farmers. "Amish" as we outsiders use it today refers to a lifestyle they have chosen to follow.

Driving with my sister and nieces one day, my sister blurted out "look, girls, there's an Amish horse!" I didn't know horses practiced religion :p !?!

As to those heaters referenced in the original post, it really is a marketing scam as all they ask you to do is pay for the Amish-built mantle, and you get the heater for free. That's like saying if you only spend $35,000 for this pair of Pirelli tires, I'll throw in the BMW for free, and you'll think you got a good deal on the tires.

[Bob Fraser]

"They are kinda weird but it is not for me to judge."

...you just did.
bob

[Tom Hargrove]

I drove through a large Amish community in central Illinois area last winter. I saw several woodshops that were powered by large diesel engines. Whether they drove generators or hydraulic pumps was not clear. However, we saw no utility lines for miles in each direction. The shops I saw made pallets, fencing stock, cabinetry and furniture.

We also saw a large warehouse with attached offices and showroom that served as a broker for the local Amish woodworking community. Unfortunately, it was closed when we went by.

Our kitchen cabinets came from a shop operated by two Mennonite brothers who live in the same general area. They were hooked up to the grid, and use telephones and a fax, but would not connect to the internet, and did not listen to the radio or watch TV. They drive automobiles, and used diesel powered tractors equipment for their farm operation. Their shop was well equipped with modern high end equipment, and they used pre-cat finishes. They were exploring CNC equipment, but felt that hands on work produced a better product. They were second generation cabinet makers, and their teenage sons were working in the shop alongside them. One of the sons planned to go into the business, the other did not. I have seen five of their kitchens, think their design work and craftsmanship is second to none.

A nearby farm was owned by an Amish family that also did woodworking. We were told they used no outside power, but used power tools. We were also tod they did not have a telephone, but from time to time would use a pay phone for outgoing calls. The payphone was located on a telephone pole at the intersection of two country roads surrounded by farm fields.

[Lee Schierer]

All Amish woodworking shops are not created equal. It depends on who is running it. I've seen shops with everything from strictly hand tools to belt driven to fully modern electric shops. It depends upon the degree of modernization their sect tolerates. The quality of workmanship also varies widely. Like everyone else, they feel the economic pressure from China and other low labor cost areas and man made materials so many are migrating those materials and methods into their products. I've also seen "English" owned factories full of Amish workers doing work just like the rest of us and using CNC machines. They arrive in their buggies, go to work, and go home in their buggies.

[Roger Lance]

There is a large woodworking show in Grand Rapids every year for the commercial trade....and you must be pre-registered through a commercial business to attend this show. There has always been numerous Amish gentlemen at the shows I've attended....and these Amish woodworkers appear to be very knowledgeable about and interested in buying all levels of woodworking machinery (perhaps not the $100,000 CNC large factory stuff)....and the sales staff at these shows are very willing to spend their time with these Amish gentlemen as well. So I'd have to conclude that however the Amish power their equipment, they are active purchasers of modern woodworking tools

[Dave Lehnert]

I believe you a wrong Dave. We have been to Sauder Village many times & have never heard or saw any reference to the Mennonite religion or way of life.

This a link to the history of Sauder furniture.

http://www.sauder.com/aboutsauder/history.asp?l=2

http://www.saudervillage.org/history/BlackSwamp.asp

This link will show the connection with Mr. Erie Sauder and the Mennonite.

I deal with sales reps from Sauder in my day job and were the ones that told me the Mennonite connection.
Had the opportunity to take there private Jet to the Village but passed as I had other things to do that day.

[Mike Parzych]

There are several sects, I believ, under the general umbrella of Amish.

I've seen that TV commercial too ans I think there's a good deal of bs involved - not from the Amish though. The mfr. is just buying the carcasses from Amish and putting in their own electronics. They say "the Amish stand behind their work" which I suppose they do, but they'd only back up the cabinets themselves and not the guts. Plus they say "the Amish have placed a limit on 2 units per household"....bull!

[Myk Rian]

There are several sects, I believ, under the general umbrella of Amish.

I've seen that TV commercial too ans I think there's a good deal of bs involved - not from the Amish though. The mfr. is just buying the carcasses from Amish and putting in their own electronics. They say "the Amish stand behind their work" which I suppose they do, but they'd only back up the cabinets themselves and not the guts. Plus they say "the Amish have placed a limit on 2 units per household"....bull!
I noticed they use pocket screws to build the cabinets.

[Craig Hemsath]

My brother lives a part of southern Iowa that has an active Amish community. He was told that some sects allow the use of power tools connected to the grid, as long as they did not own the tools, and the power was not connected to their property.
Leasing was one option he had listed along with renting shop space.

I grew up near an Amish community in NE Iowa. They were allowed to use all the power tools they wanted as long as they didn't own them or use them on other Amish properties. So you'd see crews building houses & such using all the tools in the world, but it was all owned by the "foreman" who drove them to & from the site.

[John Shuk]

In the newspaper ad they are also using a handplane on a finished piece.:rolleyes:

[Brent Leonard]

I used to know a Mennonite family in western Kansas (Sharon Springs, KS). I used to hunt pheasants on their families land and in return give them elk meat from Colorado.

They had one car. They had one big tractor for the farming. Inside their home they had no conveniences like coffee maker, microwave, TV, radio, electric stove top, etc.... No pictures on the wall and the furniture, floors, walls, and such were all wood. Nothing that looked machine or factory produced (drywall, laminate flooring, etc..).
The man of the house, to see the weather forecast, would look at the weather computer at the Co-Op in town.

It was funny, the wife, would occasionally wear jeans. When she did, she would tell my brother and I that we shouldn't dare tell anyone in town she was wearing jeans!!!!


My understanding of that sect of Mennonites in desolate western Kansas, could only have modern conveniences for NECCESITY. Not luxury.
Very good & friendly people.

[David Keller NC]

Hmm - The most hilarious part about those exorbitantly priced, ridiculously inefficient "Amish Mantle Heaters" is the pictures in the local newspaper - it has a guy dressed in what would probably be construed by the public as "the Amish Way" (hat, beard with no mustache, etc..) taking a block plane to a pre-cat finished "mantle". Naturally, of course, any woodworker would recognize that doing something like that would completely ruin the piece - start all over on the staining and finishing.

What's not so hilarious is the sleazy marketing that goes on in these ads. These things are essentially blow-dryers with a cardboard cut out of a fireplace in it, and are marketed to senior citizens with wildly exagerrated claims of "saving money on heating bills". Well, under certain very restrictive conditions that might be true - if you'll tolerate turning the central heat off in your house, staying in the one room with the "Miracle Heater", your house is modern and very well insualted with no drafts, and you're OK with a temperature well below what most would consider "room temperature". And oh yeah - you have to live in a state with extraordinarily low electricity rates. The frigid Northeast is not known for low electricity rates.

[Rob Damon]

My grandfather (passed away few years back) lived in southern Indiana on a 160 acre farm and was surrounded on all sides by Amish.

Things I saw while visiting him:

-Kids rode bicycles or walked.
-Adults rode horse back or on Sundays to church took horse drawn carraige or wagons.
-They used no electric appliances in or outside their home.
-Light was by kerosine lamps
-Cooking on cast iron stove/ovens with fire wood
-Hay was cultivated with a team of 4-6 horses, and cut by hand
-The only "powered" item was the hay lift to the upper barn was a diesel driven chain drive
-Young-uns would wear "dresses" (under 5-6)
-And they really did have "barn raisings" and hundreds would show up for one. Start before sun up gather and be near complete come sun down. An amazing site if you ever get the oppurtunity to see.
-Some of the calmest and friendliest people you would ever want to encounter. I remember my first visit after he moved there and standing at the roads edge. They didn't know me from Adam, yet every single one of them waved/nodded as they went by.
-Oh and all wood working was with hand tools..
Rob

[Jay Yoder]

Hey all, I live about 20 miles North of Holmes county. I was raised a "modern" mennonite and must point out that Mennonites are not the same as Amish. Mennonites follow the beliefs of Menno Simons and the Amish follow the beliefs of Jacob Ammon. At least that is what i was taught in school. There are many different sects everything from strict, no electricity, to actually having a phone (at the end of the drive) or cell phones.

Anyhow...from what i have seen, the ultimate power goes to "the Bishop" who sets the "rules". Keim lumber in Charm,OH actually sells the air powered woodworking equipment. It is actually amazing. Most of the shops are air powered by generator. I do however remember touring an Amish woodworking shop that was amazing. It had a huge diesel sunk below floor level with sheaves and belts running everywhere! It was amazing the creativity and rudimentary designs! And the furniture was good stuff! But just like among us, some are better than others.

[Dennis Mas]

I might be mistaken, but I've read many stories about the Amish way of life and what's interesting to me Jay, is that Yoder is a common Amish family name.

Pops

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My wife comes from a town in central Illinois that has an Amish population. Like others have stated.....there are varying degrees of modern utilities used dependent upon the local churches. Some members had all the modern conveniences. Some....well they had electricity in the barn and shops but not in the homes. I can remember one winter evening driving from one of my wife's cousin's farm to town. My FIL was in the car with me. The sun was setting and as we passed one farm house 3 or 4 children dressed in winter coats and hats...carrying books headed for the barn. I asked my FIL what was going on. He replied they were Amish and used kerosene lamps in the house and the kids found that the electric lights in the barn were easier on their eyes for studying.

[Bill Eshelman]

I live near Lanceaster PA and I laugh every time I see those ads.
Made by "The Amish".
Thats like buying carpets made by "The Muslims" or blankets made by "The Jewish".

They may be great heaters, but the marketing is a little "off".

If it were real Amish heaters, they might not plug in.

[Chip Lindley]

I find those commercials patently obnoxious! The *heaters* are probably a real rip-off @ $299, I betcha an oil-filled radiator inside a particle board case. But "The Amish aren't telling"!

An Amish worker is shown using a nail set on the "solid wood, cherry or oak finished* mantle. Maybe thats their technique to insert the pocket-hole screws!! Oh Well! "There's ONE born every minute," P.T. Barnum said!

[David Freed]

I live on the edge of an Amish community, and know many of them. There are over 60 cabinet shops within 20 miles of me. They range in size from one man to one that has 35 employees that assemble and stain the parts that are pre-cut at another shop Three shops specialize in making doors, supplying many of the shops in the area as well as shops up to hundreds of miles away. They all do good work.

As has been said, the rules vary from one community to another. There is an Amish welding shop about 10 miles from me that has 15 employees usng modern high production welders, all run buy a very large generator. They have contracts with very large companies making a variety of products, including very large steel tanks. They recently sent a 12' diameter x 20' long tank to Alaska. I'm not sure how much they charge for the tank, but it cost $10,000 to haul it up there.

[Stephen Edwards]

We have a small Amish community near where I live on the Tennessee-Kentucky border, middle Tennessee and central Kentucky. As others have pointed out there are different rules for different sects of both the Amish and Mennonites.

The Amish here are very industrious and mind-your-own-business kind of folks. Not really knowing all the variations I'd call this group Old Order. It's a common sight in Celina, TN to see an Amish horse and buggy parked at the grocery store in town!

They have a produce and farm market in their community that caters to the locals and not so locals. Every year they have the first and best of any produce grown locally. There's also a cobbler in their community who will make practically anything that a person wants made from leather. We're talking quality items on what appears to be very well built sewing machines. I don't remember if it's foot powered or powered some other way. I know that they're not on the grid. No TV, radio, phones, etc.

There's also a Mennonite community nearby who are fine builders, sawyers and stone masons. They do use modern tools, cell phones and plain vehicles. At least they do when they're on a job site.

I have a good friend who was raised as a Mennonite in Western Kansas. She's one of 15 children in the family. She's been "shunned" by the church because she got an education in the outside world (nurse practitioner). When some of her siblings come to visit her she sets the table for whomever is there. Some will eat at the same table with her, others won't. She's over it though! Doesn't bother her a bit. She says it's THEIR issue, not hers. She's told me a lot about her life, her family and her former church. Very complicated it seems to me!

As for the furniture, there's a local furniture store that sells "Amish Furniture", made somewhere else other than here. It ranges in quality from junk to decent simple furniture. A lot of the furniture that's marketed as Amish Made is of inferior quality and seems to be nothing more than a marketing ploy for suckers. There are, however, some Amish furniture makers who do fine work. But around here, you aren't apt to see that in an "English" furniture store! You have to go to an Amish community to place your order.

[mike holden]

Jeff,
This is one of the biggest misunderstandings around.
There are Amish *welders* working near Wooster, Ohio! They arrive in buggies, go in and use the latest welding equipment. The rule, and this depends a bit on the local elder, is that machinery and electricity may be used for goods that are not used by the Amish. So yeah, you can have Amish computer programs. There is an Amish woodworking shop here in Michigan that looks like any modern woodshop!
Saying: "Built by the Amish!" means about as much as: "Built by the Lutherans!"

Marketing

Mike

[Chuck Saunders]

Saying: "Built by the Amish!" means about as much as: "Built by the Lutherans!"

Marketing

Mike

Does that include lutefisk?

[Craig Regan]

There is a big law case brewing in upstate NY dealing with building permits and freedom of religion rights. The Amish do not submit engineered plans to local towns for review before building. They also do not carry liability insurance. They claim applying for a building permit infringes on their religious beliefs. Towns used to turn a blind eye, but since the amish population is increasing things are changing.

[Matthew Minnig]

The entire culture is very interesting to observe no matter the case. Having lived both in Lancaster area PA and upstate NY I can vouch for the diverse nature of the groups.

If you really want to get a kick you should watch the Primetime show on Rumspringa!

[Hank Knight]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/hankknight/YoderAuction5-10-08001Medium.jpg

[Kevin Barnett]

We used to live close to a sect in mid-Missouri. Probably close to 80 families. What everyone says about each sect having different views of using modern conveniences is correct.
I had a man and woman working on my house for one summer. All summer long they used my powertools for scraping paint and drilling and whatever else. They would always get to my house via horse and would leave the horse in the field while they worked.
One day I asked him if he'd mow the yard or the back pasture. He looked at me like I just punched him in the nose. He replied, "no." I got to talking and found out that he could use my tools, but couldn't use the mower because is had rubber wheels! I didn't even think about it. Later on I found a couple of interesting things about the sect...

Gasoline motor adapted washing machines

If you leave the sect, they cut off all ties (even family) to you

Some have "borrowed" cell phones

Here is the sadder part about what I learned. It seemed like if you had a longstanding Amish family, you were doing better than the other families. The elders would approve of purchases of property, building of houses, expansions of business somewhat based on your family ranking. I think they had it set up so that if you left the sect, you left without much money as well. I think that's how they keep the next generation Amish. Heaven forbid your dad going "English" and your mom staying Amish. Your dad couldn't really get a decent paying job with his Amish 8th grade education. And your family would lose its ranking in the Amish community.:(

[Tom Majewski]

I was looking up the rubber tire and cell phone issue, and found this article. A little funny but informative.
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/stein/article/0,9565,1118526,00.html

All in all, I admire them for trying to stick to their beliefs and lifestyle. It must be hard knowing that there are easier ways to do everything every day.

[Charlie Barnes]

I think much of what has been said regarding the differences between the various Amish communities is accurate. The one in Illinois near where I grew up wouldn't allow engines to be used to provide locomotion (my term). However, they could be used for other purposes. The most extreme example I saw was a pull type corn picker would normally be powered by the PTO shaft on a tractor. They had it rigged up so it was powered by its own engine, but the whole thing was being pulled through the field by horses.

Regarding the commercial referenced in the original post, I love it! There are so many problems, it's just hilarious. My favorite part is they are working in a building lighted by electricity and allowing themselves to be video taped. The print version of this shows a buggy heading through the scenic country side hauling 2 or 3 of the mantles to "the big city" using the country distribution network or something like that. The biggest point of all for me is that the finished product is powered by electricity. I know they could have alternate power sources for that, but it still makes me smile.

[Russ Sears]

Other than my college years at Penn State I've lived all my life here in Lancaster County, PA. I have Amish friends and neighbors. Yes, they live in parishes and the bishop has the final say. What goes in Lititz might not go in Gordonville.
Enough has probably been said but I wanted to share a story that I think is kinda funny. An Amish couple that we know had twins. Of course, they are not allowed to own photographs; it's seen as a breach of the commandment against graven images. But they ARE allowed to borrow photographs (at least in Gordonville). Well, my parents took baby pictures of the twins and lent them to our friends. I was about 12-13 at the time and they are still borrowing the photographs. I'll be 50 in June.

[Andy McCormick]

Funny story. About 15 years ago before I started making furniture my mother and father purchased a "amish Made table". About 8 years ago I was at their house and noticed that one of the table levelers needed ajusted. Me and my father turned the table over and it had a stamp "made in Canada" and I told him that it was assembled by the amish and we both had a good laugh. As far as I'm concerned the Amish just seem to bend there own beliefs to suit there needs. Whether they actually use electric or some kind of diesel generator its all the same to me. I find it funny that just because it says Amish made, people seem to think its high quality. Well I think that most of it is very poor quality and they just use it as a selling factor. Im sure there are better Amish furniture makers but at least around here the bad out number the good.

[John Shuk]

Funny story. About 15 years ago before I started making furniture my mother and father purchased a "amish Made table". About 8 years ago I was at their house and noticed that one of the table levelers needed ajusted. Me and my father turned the table over and it had a stamp "made in Canada" and I told him that it was assembled by the amish and we both had a good laugh. As far as I'm concerned the Amish just seem to bend there own beliefs to suit there needs. Whether they actually use electric or some kind of diesel generator its all the same to me. I find it funny that just because it says Amish made, people seem to think its high quality. Well I think that most of it is very poor quality and they just use it as a selling factor. Im sure there are better Amish furniture makers but at least around here the bad out number the good.

Not just the Amish bend the rules to fit. I've seen examples of many different people from different religions seemingly bending the rules.
Guess that is why religion is highly personal and the ability to celebrate it in our own way is one of our most sacred freedoms.
I have found that my surname is somewhat widespread amongst PA Dutch. No Amish heritage that I know of but maybe WAAY back.

[Stephen Edwards]

What a Great Story!!! Thanks for sharing. Brought a big smile to my face.




Other than my college years at Penn State I've lived all my life here in Lancaster County, PA. I have Amish friends and neighbors. Yes, they live in parishes and the bishop has the final say. What goes in Lititz might not go in Gordonville.
Enough has probably been said but I wanted to share a story that I think is kinda funny. An Amish couple that we know had twins. Of course, they are not allowed to own photographs; it's seen as a breach of the commandment against graven images. But they ARE allowed to borrow photographs (at least in Gordonville). Well, my parents took baby pictures of the twins and lent them to our friends. I was about 12-13 at the time and they are still borrowing the photographs. I'll be 50 in June.

[Jay Yoder]

Yep, I wondered if anyone would catch that! Everyone assumes i am of Amish extent, my full name is Jeremiah! how's that for amish sounding? Ironically, my lineage is from Switzerland with no Amish in me!



I might be mistaken, but I've read many stories about the Amish way of life and what's interesting to me Jay, is that Yoder is a common Amish family name.

Pops

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Funny story. About 15 years ago before I started making furniture my mother and father purchased a "amish Made table". About 8 years ago I was at their house and noticed that one of the table levelers needed ajusted. Me and my father turned the table over and it had a stamp "made in Canada" and I told him that it was assembled by the amish and we both had a good laugh. As far as I'm concerned the Amish just seem to bend there own beliefs to suit there needs. Whether they actually use electric or some kind of diesel generator its all the same to me. I find it funny that just because it says Amish made, people seem to think its high quality. Well I think that most of it is very poor quality and they just use it as a selling factor. Im sure there are better Amish furniture makers but at least around here the bad out number the good.


Andy...I don't know that they are bending their rules to suit their needs. Just like there are different types of Baptists and Methodists.....different parishes of Amish have different rules......so what?

[mike holden]

Chuck,
you can blame lutefisk on the Scandinavians. Lutherans you can blame on the Germans - or more correctly the Popes of Martin Luther's time. (grin)
Mike

[Thomas Bank]

Yep, I wondered if anyone would catch that! Everyone assumes i am of Amish extent, my full name is Jeremiah! how's that for amish sounding? Ironically, my lineage is from Switzerland with no Amish in me!

"Ah, ja! Dat Charamiah Joder is a gud man, lives up da vaalley a ways!"

:D

No direct Amish descent here, but my grandmother spoke nothing but German at home until she went to public school.

Funny story: Once when I was a kid my grandparents were out to visit - they were the ones from Ohio, in Stark County bordering Holmes County. Anyway, we all went down to Lancaster for one day. At the time, Holmes County hadn't discovered that the Amish were a tourist attraction, but Lancaster certainly had. In the evening, we went to a restaurant and the waitress came out dressed in her little dress and bonnet and proceeded to give her little greeting (Guten tag and so forth). So my grandmother immediately feels this must be a kindred spirit and launches into her own greeting in German and proceeds to ask about items on the menu and so forth. The girl's face slowly falls and when my grandmother pauses, she cautiously says "They just tell us to say that, I don't even know what it means..."

[rick carpenter]

Some do use power tools. I have done quite a bit of hurricane resto/rebuild work on the Gulf Coast. Amish and Mennonites come down in organized worktrips to work. In Port Arthur TX, after being guaranteed work for a certain time period and contracted by a Methodist Church UMCOR partner relief organization, the Mennonites bought a house, moved in an older married couple, and rotated in young Mennonite men in a four man workteam. In Galveston TX, another UMCOR partner housed a couple of young Amish men. In both places, they were the "go to" team for seemingly impossible tasks. Their dedication to serving God by serving His people is inspiring. I thought I knew what work and service were until meeting these young men!

I was fortunate enough to work with one of the young Amish men most recently in Galveston and we had time to visit during lunch. His "tour" in Texas was nearly over and by now he's back home in Pennsylvania working in a furniture workshop. He said it was powered by a diesel generator outside providing pneumatic power for their tools.

[Ryan Welch]

Other than my college years at Penn State I've lived all my life here in Lancaster County, PA. I have Amish friends and neighbors. Yes, they live in parishes and the bishop has the final say. What goes in Lititz might not go in Gordonville.
Enough has probably been said but I wanted to share a story that I think is kinda funny. An Amish couple that we know had twins. Of course, they are not allowed to own photographs; it's seen as a breach of the commandment against graven images. But they ARE allowed to borrow photographs (at least in Gordonville). Well, my parents took baby pictures of the twins and lent them to our friends. I was about 12-13 at the time and they are still borrowing the photographs. I'll be 50 in June.

Funny. When I moved into my new house the previous owners had worked out an agreement with the Amish farm behind the property that allowed them to keep a freezer hooked up in thier garage so the amish family could store frozen meat. Beings that the garage would now be my woodshop I had to terminate the agreement but, thought it rather hilarious.

[Larry Edgerton]

There is a large woodworking show in Grand Rapids every year for the commercial trade....and you must be pre-registered through a commercial business to attend this show. There has always been numerous Amish gentlemen at the shows I've attended....and these Amish woodworkers appear to be very knowledgeable about and interested in buying all levels of woodworking machinery (perhaps not the $100,000 CNC large factory stuff)....and the sales staff at these shows are very willing to spend their time with these Amish gentlemen as well. So I'd have to conclude that however the Amish power their equipment, they are active purchasers of modern woodworking tools

I go to that show as well and have seen the same. I was talking to a Martin salesman about a planer when a group of Amish came up and he dropped me like a hotcake and ran over to them. [I bought a SCMI;)]

I asked around a bit and they are indeed buying CNC machines, don't know how they work that out. When I was loading up the planer a amish fellow came over and helped me, nice fellow, and gave me his catalog for cabinet doors. The pictures of the machinery in the catalog were powered by electricity, but I suppose it could have been one big generator. He was driving a cube van.

That being said, I do admire their lifestyle, keeping things as simple as they can in this modern age. At some point we, the English, tend to become slaves to our own machines, as can be witnessed by all of the tool auctions in recent years. I am taking a lesson from their example and downsizing myself. Less overhead for me will be less time I spend working for what I have, more time with my family.

[Mark Patoka]

Every time I see that heater ad in a magazine I start laughing. I especially like the picture of the couple driving their buggy to the "big city" with two heaters to be delivered.

Of course one of my coworkers saw that ad and she thought that heater must be the best thing since sliced Amish bread so I guess the hokey marketing really works.

[David G Baker]

An Amish company enclosed my front porch and installed 4 very large windows. This company is hooked to the grid and uses some very unique window manufacturing equipment that is electric. They also drive vehicles. They have been given permission to use the vehicles and electric power in their business but when go home at night, no grid supplied power, no phone (other than the business cell phones),etc.

[Stew Hagerty]

I live in Fort Wayne, IN and around here, nearly all of the homes are built by Amish crews. They use all of the power tools that anyone else would use, both corded and cordless. They hire a non-Amish worker to also be their driver. They pay him to buy a 15 passenger van and he hauls them all over. They also work in manufactured housing and RV factories throughout the area and use all of the electric and air powered tools.

I have been to a couple of woodworking shops not too far from here. One was owned by the Amish family and had a generator as some of the other posters have mentioned. However, I also visited one that was operated solely by Amish workers, but was technically "owned" by someone that was not. Since they did not own it, it could be connected to the grid and fully powered.

There are always ways around the rules. Most have cell phones, they simply recharge them in the 15 passenger vans that they technically don't own.

[roman fedyk]

You were taught correctly. The Mennonites were the first group when Menno Simons joined the Anabaptist movement back in 1536. Jacob Amman broke with the Mennonites in 1693 and his followers were called the Amish. The Amish are much more conservative in their lifestyle and beliefs.

We have both groups in my area and everyone just seems to get along great. I have never met a nicer group of people anywhere I have lived.




Hey all, I live about 20 miles North of Holmes county. I was raised a "modern" mennonite and must point out that Mennonites are not the same as Amish. Mennonites follow the beliefs of Menno Simons and the Amish follow the beliefs of Jacob Ammon. At least that is what i was taught in school. There are many different sects everything from strict, no electricity, to actually having a phone (at the end of the drive) or cell phones.

Anyhow...from what i have seen, the ultimate power goes to "the Bishop" who sets the "rules". Keim lumber in Charm,OH actually sells the air powered woodworking equipment. It is actually amazing. Most of the shops are air powered by generator. I do however remember touring an Amish woodworking shop that was amazing. It had a huge diesel sunk below floor level with sheaves and belts running everywhere! It was amazing the creativity and rudimentary designs! And the furniture was good stuff! But just like among us, some are better than others.

[roman fedyk]

That is not unusual as all products made outside the USA have to be tagged where they are made. As far as the Amish go, there is rather large community in SouthWestern Ontario, Canada.

So it is not impossible to have furniture made in Canada and still be made by the Amish.....



Funny story. About 15 years ago before I started making furniture my mother and father purchased a "amish Made table". About 8 years ago I was at their house and noticed that one of the table levelers needed ajusted. Me and my father turned the table over and it had a stamp "made in Canada" and I told him that it was assembled by the amish and we both had a good laugh. As far as I'm concerned the Amish just seem to bend there own beliefs to suit there needs. Whether they actually use electric or some kind of diesel generator its all the same to me. I find it funny that just because it says Amish made, people seem to think its high quality. Well I think that most of it is very poor quality and they just use it as a selling factor. Im sure there are better Amish furniture makers but at least around here the bad out number the good.