The full-size table: Gluing up the top

[Al Navas]

My thanks to all who read and looked at the beginning of the build of the full-size table.

Now I continue, with the glue-up of the boards that will make up the table top. The top will be 1-1/2 inches thick, 30 inches wide, and 60 inches long. At this stage the boards are a little thicker than 1-5/8".


From my blog:

After prepping the boards that will make up the table top, it is now time to glue them up. Due to their sheer size, I do this in stages, two boards at a time. Doing it this way removes much of the anxiety associated with large glue-ups.

I apply sufficient glue to get some squeeze out and, using several clamps while carefully lining up the edges as I go, I gradually start clamping down from the center toward the edges. When finished, I normally want a small bead of glue all along the glue line, on both sides of the boards being glued. I then wipe down much of the excess; and, when the remaining glue starts to gel, I scrape it off. The following photo shows one half of the table top immediately after tightening the last clamp; note the size of the glue bead I get:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/table-top-glueup-1.png

Once I remove the bulk of the remaining glue I check for flatness, using a good straight edge; the two glue-ups I did today were perfectly flat - a pleasing result after the work that has gone into these so far.

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/table-top-glueup-2.png

No doubt, the nice flat surface is the result of spending the time with a hand plane to touch up the board edges, in preparation for the glue-up.

Next: I will glue the two sets of boards I glued up today. At that point the entire table top will be ready for sanding to final thickness. Since I don't have a machine that will take this huge slab, I will use a friend's wide belt sander. Later I will use another friend's slider to cut the top to final length on his table saw. I hope to document those two critical steps soon.

I think my newly-found muscles are starting to feel better. They ached for two solid days. And, to quote Peter McDonald, one of James Patterson's characters, today "...everything was copacetic..." (1)

Thanks for reading about my build of this table!


(1) The Season of the Machete, Page 75, James Patterson, 1980


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[Scott Wigginton]

Looking good! Can't wait for more pics as it starts to come together. Looks like it's going to be a beast to handle once you get both tops glued up.

[Al Navas]

Looking good! Can't wait for more pics as it starts to come together. Looks like it's going to be a beast to handle once you get both tops glued up.
You are right, Scott - it will be heavy! For sure I will need help to even remove it from the clamps.


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[Mike Gager]

please forgive me if im wrong but arent you supposed to stagger the end grain so its not going the same direction on adjacent boards? the two boards shown have the grain going in the same direction


you have the boards like this )))|)))) when they should be like this ))))|((((


im new to woodworking and ive only done 1 table top glue up but i thought thats what i read :confused:

[Al Navas]

Mike,

Some people believe you should do what you mention, and it applies to flat-sawn boards, which have a tendency to move more than quarter-sawn boards. But others believe that if the wood is selected and used at the correct moisture, and that the lumber is (relatively) stable to begin with, you should not experience great problems if you orient your boards similarly. However, there is lumber that will almost always tend to be troublesome, such as lumber harvested from a tree that grew on a steep hill, improperly dried, improperly stored, etc.

The boards I am using are all quarter-sawn white oak (QSWO); typically, quarter-sawn means the lumber will be much more stable, provided it is suitably dry, and that environmental conditions don't change dramatically very often in the location where it is ultimately used.

As a result, my hope is that this table top will be quite stable. It is a good reason to use quarter-sawn lumber, if you like the grain and overall appearance.

If anyone has other input, please let us know - I don't want to find out in a few months how wrong I am! :)


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[Chris Schumann]

=
If anyone has other input, please let us know - I don't want to find out in a few months how wrong I am! :)
I'm still new at this, but I just got an e-mail with an article about wood movement. It said... hmm... how to explain without a picture...

Wood does NOT move lengthwise very much. That is, a ten foot board will not change length because of moisture change. Wood swells and shrinks along the growth rings.

So if you have a perfectly quarter-sawn board (imagine a 1x4 taken from the edge of a 30-foot diameter tree), it will only change thickness from moisture. A perfectly flat-sawn board will only change width. (Once I realized this, it became obvious why a flat-sawn board from near the edge of a small tree cups in the opposite direction of the end grain.)

Of course, no board is perfect by any measure, but Al's planks have nearly vertical grain and should swell and shrink almost entirely in thickness. That's something I'll be trying to attain when I glue up my workbench top.

As to orienting boards ))|(( versus ))|)) or ((|)), I can only think that a typical flatsawn, face-glued board would tend to cup, gluing those cupping (potentially convex) surfaces together makes them push together at the edges where they would swell the most.

I'm sure someone will educate me to my logical errors with some hard experience.

[Chris Padilla]

Properly dried and stable (stable moisture-content wise: 6-8% typcially) wood can be edge-glued together irrespective of the growth rings. You'll find that most people edge-gluing two boards together want the best color and grain matching versus ensuring the end-grain goes in opposite directions (or whatever).

[Mike Gager]

awesome guys thanks for the correction. :)

oh btw i cant wait to see more of this project!

[Greg Cole]

Some nice looking stock there Al.
I haven't seent the start of the table, but I'll be looking now. ;)
I'm with Al & Chris about the growth ring orientation. Properly acclimated and prepped stock should be glued up for best grain appearance. 1/4 sawn stock is very stable to start with.

[Tony Bilello]

Normally when you glue up boards you alternate the clamps from one side to the other so as not to have the tension all on one side and creating a bow.
Is there something special about the style clamps that you are using? They look like high quality and I was wondering if they somehow keep the tension even. If you can get away with all of the clamps on one side, that would be a great help to me because I make a quite a few table tops.

Thanks in advance.

[Al Navas]

Tony,

I do exactly as you describe, when I use pipe clamps.

The ones in the photo are the Bessey K-body clamps. They stay square under pressure, and eliminate most of the problems you normally have with pipe clamps.

The main drawback of this style of clamp is price, which is about $50 for each 48-inch clamp. But you sometimes find them discounted about 15% to 20%. I have bought several of them over the years; otherwise I would not be able to eat for 18 months or so... :eek:


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[Al Navas]

Some nice looking stock there Al.
I haven't seent the start of the table, but I'll be looking now. ;)
I'm with Al & Chris about the growth ring orientation. Properly acclimated and prepped stock should be glued up for best grain appearance. 1/4 sawn stock is very stable to start with.
Thanks, Greg!

I am sorry I totally missed your post. I have not been paying attention, and it is my bad :o :o . I promise to do better...

[Tony Bilello]

I figured that they would stay square by their design but it's also nice to hear it from a user. I will take your word for it that they are worth the money or you wouldn't own a bunch of them. I think I will have to put some on my "gotta have" list. I will need 4 to start with so I will be looking at our lagging economy sales.

[Dwight Boesiger]

Al Navas

Thanks for your informative posts on building a table from white oak. It is all very pertinent for me since I found some 8/4 QS White Oak just yesterday and purchased it to start building our long postponed dining table. I’m hoping to keep the 40”x66” top at least 6/4 thick. Today I started the board preparation and selection by running two over the planer and cross cutting the ends. To my surprise the crosscuts on one board revealed horizontal cracks (fissures) a few inches long. Unfortunately these showed on both ends of one board. A picture is attached. My questions are as follows:
1) I can still remove about 6 inches length, would I expect to be able to rid the board of the defect? I’ve never had the opportunity to work with QS white oak before and wonder if this kind of defect is common?
2. This particular board has attractive grain on the surface and I would like to use it if at all possible. Could I uses some sort of a fill in the cracks (epoxy?) and celebrate the character spot? I wasn’t going to bread board the ends but maybe now I should consider it.
3.) Would I expect the cracks to grow as the board ages? Should I be concerned about structural integrity?
Thanks for any words of wisdom.
Dwight Boesiger

[Al Navas]

Dwight,

Since you have several questions, I will answer the best way I can, and see how it goes. I will reply in green within your quoted text, below:


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1) I can still remove about 6 inches length, would I expect to be able to rid the board of the defect? I’ve never had the opportunity to work with QS white oak before and wonder if this kind of defect is common?
I don't know how common this is, Dwight. It looks to me like a crack that might result with sycamore, shen the sycamore gets "wind shake", and could even be caused during the felling of the tree, on impact. If so, it could be the only board you have that shows this problem. In other words, a mechanical problem. I hope others may be able to provide some additional insight.
2. This particular board has attractive grain on the surface and I would like to use it if at all possible. Could I uses some sort of a fill in the cracks (epoxy?) and celebrate the character spot? I wasn’t going to bread board the ends but maybe now I should consider it.
This could be the only board showing this type of defect, Dwight. I believe that epoxy will take of the problem, depending on how extensive it is. What I would do: Cut a little more on both ends, maybe in half-inch increments, and see how extensive the damage is. You may end up wasting the boards, but I hope it is the only one with this problem. Again, it might be isolated to a short distance. But, since it shows on both ends, you really have to determine the extent of damage. It would not cost too much to replace, I would not think, and then you would have total piece of mind.

I suggest you call the vendor, and let them know what you found. Sometimes they will take back a board, if nothing more than to keep your business.

On the breadboard: I have not planned on putting one on my table, as the quarter-sawn white oak is very stable. In the end, it will probably depend on your findings with the rest of this particular board.
3.) Would I expect the cracks to grow as the board ages? Should I be concerned about structural integrity?
Again, it really depends on how extensive the cracks are, and whether they might be along the length of the board. If it IS he only board with this problem, simply buy another one. At $5 to $6 bdft., it will cost a little, buy YOU will feel better. NOW is when you want to find out, not when the table fails a year from now.
Thanks for any words of wisdom.
Dwight Boesiger

As I said, I hope others may be able to help with additional input.You may even consider posting a separate thread, including your photo, and any additional findings.


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[Brian Peters]

I'm with Al, if it's deeper than your size allows replace it or save it and use it for something else that doesn't require that length. Especially if its for a customer I wouldn't take the chance with cracks, it's not worth it. Most of the time if I see it and I have more material I chuck it right away if there is no work around. You can fill cracks with glue and clamp fill with epoxy which will most of the time work but it won't give you the piece of mind. If its for a customer or a project you really care about replace it because later if it fails that callback will make you wish you had spent that small $$ on replacing that one board instead of replacing the entire thing.

[Dwight Boesiger]

Al and Brian

Thanks both for taking time to respond regarding the white oak fissures that I uncovered. I finally had time this afternoon to start nibblng away at the ends of this board. After multiple 1/2 inch slices the fissures remained and it is obvious that they persist the entire length of the board. The scary thing from a wood purchaser standpoint is that there was no evidence of this on the ends of the 7 foot by 6" wide 8/4 board. Ive had a chance to preliminary prep three of the other boards in the nine board lot and so far no evidence of similar defects are apparent. Maybe I'll get lucky!

Dwight Boesiger