A little buyers remorse, sort of.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Late last year (Oct-Nov) I purchased a G0490 8" jointer. I opted to get the regular cutterhead instead of the spiral in the G0490X. My blades are ready for sharpening/replacement. I guess I've used it more than I thought. I began to wish that I had got the G0490X with the insert cutterhead...but after looking on the website I realized that there are three cutterheads for the 8" jointer. There's the regular straight blade (standard on the G0490), there is the spiral insert (standard on the G0490X), and there is the helical insert. It doesn't appear that the helical insert head comes installed in a jointer. Correct?

The spiral insert head has the inserts mounted in a spiral pattern but approach the stock square. Whereas the helical head has the inserts in a spiral pattern but approach the stock at an angle. At this time I either have to fork over some cash for new blades and/or sharpening or swap out the cutter head. Now that the eBay/Microsoft cashback has gone the way of the dodo, does anyone know of any ways to make buying the new cutter head a little easier on the pocket?

[Fred Hargis]

I keep kicking the cost question around myself. In some ways, it seems like it would be just as cheap (out of pocket) to sell my Jet 8" jointer and Delta 15" planer, and buy Griz units with the cutterheads installed. But that's probably not what I'll do. I'll just bite the bullet and buy the cutterheads outright...besides I really do want the Shelix style. But I don;t have buyer's remorse...I bought mine before the spiral carbide heads were generally available installed on the machines.

[Lee Schierer]

Maybe no resaon to be remorseful....Wood Magazine did an article recently regarding planer and jointer cutters heads with the new spiral cutters included. Their finding was that the spiral cutters left a noticeably more uneven surface than did the conventional cutters. You might want to read the article before getting too upset with your purchase.

[Butch Edwards]

Maybe no resaon to be remorseful....Wood Magazine did an article recently regarding planer and jointer cutters heads with the new spiral cutters included. Their finding was that the spiral cutters left a noticeably more uneven surface than did the conventional cutters. You might want to read the article before getting too upset with your purchase.

you beat me too it....;)

[Gary Click]

Maybe no resaon to be remorseful....Wood Magazine did an article recently regarding planer and jointer cutters heads with the new spiral cutters included. Their finding was that the spiral cutters left a noticeably more uneven surface than did the conventional cutters. You might want to read the article before getting too upset with your purchase.

Not been my experience with either my jointer or planer.

Both have inserted heads. the jpointer is a Grizzly and the planer is a Byrd. Other than requiring different inserts both leave a flat even surface ready for sanding or scraping.

[Gary Herrmann]

I put Byrd heads in both my jointer and planer. I do get lines (not scallops) when the boards come off the tool. Since my Byrds and the tools are relatively new to me, I lay my Starrett rule on edge against every board that comes off them. No light is visible anywhere under the edge of the rule.

Yes, I have to sand the lines out, but many people are of the opinion that you don't get a finished surface off either tool anyway.

I'll take the lines and the nobrainer insert changes any day over a standard 3 knife head.

[CPeter James]

IMHO, you should not feel bad. Get a Makita sharpener and learn to do your own knives. I can take the knives out of my Jet 15" planer, sharpen them and replace them and have the planer up and runing in under 45 minutes. The secret is to learn how (any method that works for you) and do it when they need it. Don't wait until they are so dull that you can't get the board through the machine. Like Chicago voting, early and often.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1459


http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/sharpening/021001.jpg

Get the optional "Green" Wheel. That is all I use. Be sure to download the instructions that are on the page with the sharpener. They are much better than the Makita version.

CPeter

[Kevin Looker]

I just put a Byrd head on my planer yesterday.

I ran the machine at it's slowest feed speed, 16 fpm, and it put a fantastic finish on the boards with no tearout, no noticeable lines or scallops and greatly reduced noise.

My motivation for getting the Byrd was to reduce tearout because I was getting tired of wasting time & material "fixing" tearout.

We'll see how the head performs after it gets some hours on it.

[Larry Fox]

I'll take the lines and the nobrainer insert changes any day over a standard 3 knife head.

+1 on this for sure. I still have the 3-knife head in my DJ-20 but hope to have the coin for a Byrd before I need another knife change. Huge PITA in my opinion.

[Jim Andrew]

I have byrd heads in both my jointer and planer. Only time I get noticeable lines on the wood is if a cutter is chipped. Just turn the cutter is all that is required usually. The wood is hardly ever ripped out around knots, but loose knots still get taken out. The cool thing is, I can use wood with character in my projects because the planer doesn't ruin the board. And the added benefit is I don't have to adjust the knives in my jointer or planer.

[guy knight]

Maybe no resaon to be remorseful....Wood Magazine did an article recently regarding planer and jointer cutters heads with the new spiral cutters included. Their finding was that the spiral cutters left a noticeably more uneven surface than did the conventional cutters. You might want to read the article before getting too upset with your purchase.

i had regular knives in both my jointers and planner i don't know where they got there info but it is night and day difference in finish and that doesn't even take into count eliminating tearout and longevity just goes to show you reviews are not always that accurate

[Brian Peters]

I just can't justify spending $300 on a sharpener. Most of the systems out there are around $300, really over priced IMO for what they are. Would take sharpening a lot of planer/jointer knives to have that pay off, years worth.


IMHO, you should not feel bad. Get a Makita sharpener and learn to do your own knives. I can take the knives out of my Jet 15" planer, sharpen them and replace them and have the planer up and runing in under 45 minutes. The secret is to learn how (any method that works for you) and do it when they need it. Don't wait until they are so dull that you can't get the board through the machine. Like Chicago voting, early and often.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1459


http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/sharpening/021001.jpg

Get the optional "Green" Wheel. That is all I use. Be sure to download the instructions that are on the page with the sharpener. They are much better than the Makita version.

CPeter

[Chip Lindley]

Don't be so remorseful! All that GLITTERS is not GOLD! And don't think that everything has to be *BOUGHT* as an accessory! And don't think that this utilitarian task can be done ONLY by a grinding shop. Its a 15 minute job in your OWN shop. Hardwood has been planed and jointed for over a century with HHS knives without the need for carbide inserts!

You have a nice machine with high speed steel knives that need resharpening! This can be done simply without a huge outlay of CASH! I have sharpened mine for 25 years, held in a hardwood block and run under an abrasive cup wheel in the drill press. There are also alternatives for sharpening knives on a table saw. A little ingenuity will save you the outlay for a *machine* to grind knives on.

A very viable alternative for sharpening is in Fine Woodworking mag #27 using a DP, and #30 using a table saw. A *white* friable grinding wheel must be used, which heats the HSS less than the harder wheels. The wire edge is removed after sharpening by hand-honing on a fine stone or carbide paper. Since your new jointer has jack screws to adjust knife height, resetting the knives should be a cinch.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Sharpening local or shipping factored in is running about 1" an inch. So 10 sharpenings on the G0490 8" 4-knife set (32" of knives) and it's paying for itself. Or 11 sets of knives from Holberen (fewer from others or fanicier knives).

What really hurts is the 300 smackers you have to outlay all at once for the system.

[Myk Rian]

Thanks for that info Chip.

[Craig McCormick]

Chip,

Do you have a source on the friable grinding wheel that you use with your drill press sharpening jig? I want to make one this weekend! Simple...I love it!

AZCRAIG

[Ron Bontz]

I don't sharpen my own blades. I just have two sets. Straight blades of course. When one becomes dull or damaged I just replace them and send them off to be resharpened. Doesn't cost much either and they are perfect every time. I may loose maybe 15 min. changing them out if that.:)

[Rod Sheridan]

Even faster is the Tersa or Felder (or other Euro machines) heads.

You can change knives in under 5 minutes with no adjustment required, and you can use HSS or premium knives.

I can't have knives sharpened locally for less than the replacement knife cost............Rod.

[lou sansone]

I use the local sharpening service for my 24 inch knives - great finish and pretty low cost compared to new knives

Lou

[Danny Hamsley]

I am with CPeter with the Makita sharpener. I have one and it makes sharpening jointer knives short work. I do two sets at a time so there is a sharp back-up set when the first set gets dull. When the second set gets dull, I re-sharpen both sets again. I have easily paid for mine with re-sharp savings and hassle.

[glenn bradley]

Unfortunately you will find reviews that state "one is better than the other" all the way to "there is no perceivable difference" when it comes to testing and comparing knives to inserts on jointers. I went with an insert head to avoid the issue you are now having. I would not beat yourself up with regret, knives leave a great finish.

The "additional cost" argument was a false economy for me. I work with a lot of figured woods and my straight knives would cause tearout after only a short period of use although they did pretty well when freshly sharpened. The inserts ( I have the Grizzly head, not the Shelix) almost never have this issue and that was important to me.

Also, I have been running my jointer since May of 2008. Based on my previous knife use I would have been through 4 sharpenings, replaced the knives and had the new set sharpened once by now. And I am only on the first of four edges. I did the math and the head pays for itself pretty quickly.

You have a great jointer platform and do have the option of changing heads if that makes sense for you. Take the price of a sharpener, factor in your time and the frequency that you would need to sharpen your knives. This will help you decide what is right for you.

Be sure to factor in that the sharpener could be used to sharpen other items as well and there is added value in that. I do spend a bit of time sharpening my hand tools. When it comes to my machines however, I just want to walk up to them and use them. That combined with the cost savings due to durability and the the superior finish made my decision for me. YMMV.

[Paul Ryan]

Once you learn how to replace the knives it really gets pretty easy. The 1st time I put my knives in it was a disaster. But since then I bought a real straight edge. Not a level or framing square. A real straight edge. It comes in handy for lots of things but expecially this. I can change knives in about 5 minutes. Granted it is a 6" with 3 knives but I have my straight edge marked. So all of the knives hit the same place on the staight edge when adjusted it is really simple. I have my knives sharpened for $8, it will take a while to get the the $300 point, and carbide inserts arn't cheap either.

[Cliff Holmes]

I just finished upgrading my G0490 to the Byrd head, so I can speak with some authority on this.

BOTH heads will produce scalloping if you feed too quickly. BOTH will produce beautiful finishes with a slower feed rate.

A knife is far easier to nick than a carbide cutter. If you do hit something hard enough to nick both, replacing a cutter is way, way easier than removing/sharpening/setting a set of blade. Even shifting the blades takes longer. Replacing a few cutterheads is also less expensive than replacing a blade. Only when you have to replace the entire set of cutters are you talking a serious bit of money, but you will have spent a lot on sharpening/replacing blades too.

A bladed head can produce a fine finish even in figured woods IF freshly sharpened. However, that fresh edge is quickly lost. Spiral carbide handles figured woods nicely far longer.

Carbide can handle materials blades can't.

I forgot to take readings on the old head, but subjectively the new head sounds quieter. It definitely has a different pitch which is less offensive.

Overall, I'm finding the upgrade well worth it. The only downside I've found with the Byrd is the cost.

[Cliff Holmes]

carbide inserts arn't cheap either.

They're only $2-3 apiece. With four edges, too.

[Cliff Holmes]

does anyone know of any ways to make buying the new cutter head a little easier on the pocket?

You're really not spending much more than you would have paid extra for the spiral version in the first place. Grizzly still has the Byrd and Grizzly heads on sale for $325/$275. I opted for the Byrd because the diagonal shear cut *should* be better than Grizzly's straight cut. For just a few dollars difference, I thought "why not" ?

Oh, note that Grizzly has two different 8" Byrd heads, make sure you get the one for the G0490

[Matt Meiser]

I suppose its possible that they are to ashamed to admit it, but I've never heard someone who installed a shelix head say they regret it.

[glenn bradley]

I suppose its possible that they are to ashamed to admit it, but I've never heard someone who installed a shelix head say they regret it.

True, there could be some Festoolian pride in spending the dough. There could also be a pride in 'old school' shining through here and there. That is the great thing about this forum; many people, many opinions and not too many bad apples :D.

[Cary Falk]

I suppose its possible that they are to ashamed to admit it, but I've never heard someone who installed a shelix head say they regret it.

I was orginally was one of those people. I was getting a very bad cut. My edges were slightly rounded so that I was not able to do glue ups. Once I removed all of the inserts, cleaned it all up, and put it back them back in, I could not be happier. It is a must have on the planer (G0453z) that I intend to get in the next couple of months.

[jeff kratz]

Hey guys--
Found out something 2 weeks ago while up at grizzly in PA picking up my first Jointer-Picked up the G0586 --thats right no "X" . The reason, the only reason not to have it shipped, was because after talking to 2 salesman, i found out that the only difference between a "G0586" and a "G0586X" iss literally the cutter head. i Picked up the same helix cutter head in the "X" unit (on sale) and a Mobile base for LESS then the G0586X alone. now i have 2 head for less then the price of one-

Buy the way- Page 14 of the Christmas catalog

now all i have to do is learn how to use it

jeff