Vicmarc VL300 bare bones build-up - gonna need some help

[Dave Schell]

Hi All,

I'm returning to turning after a 3 year hiatus. I had the Oneway 2436 and all the other expensive accoutrements. Liquidated all of it to some very lucky soul out there :) but am feeling the itch again. So my shopping list is quite large but step one is a new lathe.

I rarely buy what I can make so the barebones Vicmarc VL300 from Craft Supplies is right up my alley. At a $2200 discount over the fully assembled one, I figure I can buy the motor and drive for around $500, and another couple hundred for cabinet materials and remote control switches, and still come out about $1500 ahead.

The only thing that keeps me up at nights is the remote control and AC drive wiring and programming. Roger at CS was kind enough to give me the model numbers of the Leeson motor and ABB drive they use in their version of the Vicmarcs but so far has not agreed to send me any wiring schematics. I looked at the ABB drive manual and it is written to a much more sophisticated user than me.

So just hoping someone out there has been through this already and might want to make a new friend :).

Here are the links of the 3 significant components:

Barebones Vicmarc from CS ($2295): http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Lathes___Band_Saws___Full_Size_Lathes___Vicmarc_VL 300_CS_Series_Wood_Lathe___vl300?Args=

Leeson 3HP motor ($246): http://www.bearingsdirect.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2932

ABB ACs 150 drive ($277): http://www.state-electric.com/_product_18847/ACS150-01U-09A8-2_240_Volt_IP20_Enclosure

[Jim Kountz]

Do you know if this lathe has a through hole in the spindle? I heard that it does not and thus would make vacuum a little more difficult to set up without buying the dedicated drums Vicmarc sells> I really love the look and features of this lathe but that through hole thing put the brakes on it for me.

[Dave Schell]

Thru hole on the spindle? Holy cow - I hope so. Didn't even bother to ask about that though - I was counting on Vicmarc having figured out a long time ago that a spindle through hole is essential to vacuum chucking. Now you have me scared.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I'll put you at ease I think Dave, this is the V/S VL 300 info.

[Alan Trout]

Dave I am very envious of you. I had planned on doing the same thing except with the long bed version. However I did not have a lot of room and My Nova DVR fit my space and wallet a little better. I still may do it one day but for now I am very happy.

As Leo pointed out is does have a through hole in the spindle and many regard these lathes as some of the best in the business. However I am not real familiar with VFD's but I am sure the folks at ABB or one of its distributors will be more than willing to help.

Good Luck

Alan

[Jim Kountz]

I'll put you at ease I think Dave, this is the V/S VL 300 info.

Ahh thanks Leo, that changes things. I was wondering why they made such a big deal out of their vac drums and a guy in our club mentioned it was because there was no through hole. Guess he was wrong!!
Thanks again!!

[Dennis Ford]

I might be able to help, I have done this before but with a different brand of drive. Are you looking for advise or someone to wire it up?

[Tom Steyer]

The VL300 I have seen has a through hole, but it also has a very funky configuration that has both internal and external threads on the left end of the spindle. This may limit your choices when it comes to vacuum adapters, but you can make your own chucks and other pieces for a vac system. Also, it seems that Vicmarc accessories are VERY expensive in general.

[Dave Schell]

Dennis - thanks for your offer of help. I am mostly looking for advice and guidance on building and wiring up the remote control for the drive. I'm not a complete novice when it comes to electrical circuits, but the whole area of motor control is new to me. I see on your website that you used a Hitachi VFD - I'm not tied to the ABB drive - that is just what Craft Supplies uses. I'm perfectly willing to switch to the Hitachi drive if it makes it easier for you to provide guidance.

What model drive did you use?
Here is one that looks like it would be a good fit for the Leeson 3HP: http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Variable+Torque+VFD/X200-022NFU.html

[Jim Kountz]

Well I for one am going to keep an eye on this thread, I really like the Vics and now that I know there is a through hole Im even more interested.

[Dick Strauss]

Dave,
I looked at that lathe with and without the motor and had the same question...where is the $2k in value by adding the motor and VFD controller?

Good luck and let us know how you make out...

[Dave Schell]

I placed my order with Craft Supplies Tues of this week so I'm expecting the lathe to arrive sometime next week (I'm in Raleigh, NC). I'll start posting pictures of the build-up as soon as I have something interesting to show. In the end, I hope to have a nice set of pictures, design, and tips for others to follow (and a very nice lathe too of course!).

In the meantime, I'm spending a lot of time reading up on motors, drives, and controls wondering how the heck I'm going to wire and program this thing. But I'm starting to feel a little more confident each day.

[Bob Hallowell]

I used this vfd, http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.196/.f?category=32 and bought a motor on ebay. The remote is vary easy. just a 3 postion sw for fwd/off/rev and a 10k ohm pot for the variable speed. I suggest a single turn resalution (sp.?). I bought my switches from www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) as they were cheaper but factorymation sells nice ones and the tech support is great.

Bob

[Jeff Nicol]

Dave, I had never done any work on a Vfd before in my life. But when I got the TECO drive the instructions were very straight forward. I have a remote on mine and it was a snap. It has a switch and a potentiometer for speed control. It told me what POT to get so the control was correct. I did not like the range so I went up to different one. But that is not problem. So I think the instructions will have a schematic and wiring diagram in it and will guide through the process. You should be able to get PDF files on the drive you choose from the site or manufacturer.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=101395

Above is the link to my changeover.
Good luck

Jeff

[Dave Schell]

Appreciate the information on the Teco drive - would save me about $50 over the Hitachi or ABB. But I'm wondering if the single switch for On(forward) - Off - On (reverse) is my only option with that drive. Having used the Oneway 2436 for a while, I'm partial to a big red off switch. So I would prefer separate On-Off buttons as well as a separate forward-reverse toggle.

On a related note, Oneway (and some other manufactorers too I think) actually goes beyond this with both a red button for Off (decelerates the motor to a quick stop) and a bigger red button for an "Emergency Off" (coasts the motor to a slow stop). Seems the opposite of logic - in an emergency, you want the motor to come to a quick stop. Unless I am thinking of the wrong kind of emergency. Any thoughts on that one?

Today's progress update: No word yet if the lathe has actually shipped from Utah but I did go ahead and order the Leeson motor since I will need it to design and build the mounting for it in the cabinet I build. Still holding off on the drive though.

[Bob Hallowell]

the 3 way switch on mine only has the fwd and rev hooked up the other is a dummy location. I have a seperate switch on the wall that turns the drive off and on.

Bob

[Jeff Nicol]

Dave, You can use any type switch you would like to use. I used this because it was what I had on hand in the shop. So far no troubles, I used the original switch on the lathe to shut all power to the lathe off so I guess that is my emergency switch.

Jeff

[Scott Conners]

Dave, you should easily be able to wire separate on/off and direction switches if you prefer that, it's just a matter of using a two position DPDT switch for direction and breaking the circuit with the DPDT on/off switch.

As for the emergency stop, here's why: Big lathes actually use the motor in a braking action to bring the work piece to a stop quickly, which is why many have adjustable deceleration times. I can't confirm this 100%, but I'm pretty sure the emergency stop is an actual power kill, which turns the VFD off completely and lets the piece coast to a stop without braking. Not sure why they do it that way, but I bet they have a reason.

Personally I love the idea behind the VB36's 10 turn speed pot - it prevents accidental bumps raising the speed dangerously, and allows very fine tuning of rpm for harmonic balancing.

[Nathan Hawkes]

I used this vfd, http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.196/.f?category=32 and bought a motor on ebay. The remote is vary easy. just a 3 postion sw for fwd/off/rev and a 10k ohm pot for the variable speed. I suggest a single turn resalution (sp.?). I bought my switches from www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) as they were cheaper but factorymation sells nice ones and the tech support is great.

Bob


Bob, could you elaborate maybe by PM on this?? I'm thinking about doing the same thing here soon, maybe with a vicmarc, maybe another lathe, anyway, I'm confused by all the switches mcmaster sells. They have EVERYTHING!! Great company, good customer service IME. Thanks in advance.

[Dave Schell]

After reviewing the manuals for the Teco, ABB, and Hitachi drives, I decided to go with the Hitachi drive. The manual for this drive is very well written and describes exactly how I need to configure the drive and the remote for what I want to do. I now have high confidence that I can build and wire the remote successfully. I spent about $70 more for this drive than the Teco FM50 that would have worked, but the quality of the manual really drove the sale here.

I just ordered it from driveswarhouse for $255.00: http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Variable+Torque+VFD/X200-022NFU.html

The Vicmarc is now on a truck somewhere between Utah and North Carolina and expected to arrive here Monday. :D

My question of the day is about adding ballast in the cabinet I build. I would like to add at least 400 pounds. I'm wondering what is more dense - water or sand. I was thinking one of these two would better absorb any vibrations over steel weights I could add. Thoughts?

I'm not a big fan of bolting lathes down to concrete floors since I think something has to absorb vibration and if it's bolted tight to the floor it's probably gonna be the bearings that take the beating.

[Alan Trout]

Dave,

Congratulations on the new lathe! I recently built my stand for my Nova DVR lathe, here is the thread. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=99001 I used sand in my center mounting tube and in the ballast box close to 400lbs total worth of sand. It seems to work very well and probably is less of a hassle then water would be. I kept the sand in the bags for the ballast box so it could be removed easily if needed. I have seven bags in the box and the box is approximately 24x32x10. Probably similar in size to the footprint that a short bed Vic will have.

I can't wait to see how you progress with your project. I hope you have a good time getting it together. I had a lot of fun with my project.

Alan

[Scott Conners]

I'd definitely use sand over water - the friction created as particles move (tiny amounts, but still there) as vibration travels through the sand will help dampen vibration, while water will transmit the vibration through itself much more efficiently. Water will be prone to standing waves as certain frequencies depending on the container as well. Sand is also much easier to handle and maintain.

The actual answer to your question is that sand is also much more dense - water has a specific gravity of 1.0, dry sand is 1.4-1.7 depending on compaction.

[Dave Schell]

Alan, that's a great job on that stand - you obviously have some great metalworking/welding skills. I'll have to make mine out of wood - I've failed welding class twice now :eek:

Scott - that makes alot of sense about sand being not only heavier but also better at aborbing vibrations. I'm sold.

Just ordered the buttons, switch, and potentiometer for the remote from Automation Direct. The credit card balance is going to be a doozy this month.

So far:

$2500 Vicmarc lathe (including shipping)
$280 for the Leeson motor
$260 for the Hitachi drive
$80 for puttons, switches, and the pot

[Mike Spanbauer]

Sounds like quite a bit of lathe for just a tick over $3k so far. Of course, once done w/ materials and assembly you'll have another 400 into the stand + ballast right?

Still, $3500 for a 24" swing, 21" centers lathe... impressive.

mike

[Wyatt Holm]

Do you know if this lathe has a through hole in the spindle? I heard that it does not and thus would make vacuum a little more difficult to set up without buying the dedicated drums Vicmarc sells> I really love the look and features of this lathe but that through hole thing put the brakes on it for me.

It sure does have hole through the spindle. It came with a 1/2" steel bar as a knockout rod, works great. On building your cabinet your best bet would be to have a steel shop (such as one who makes wood stoves) bend and weld you a steel stand. Or if you like building things yourself get some sheets of steel and weld it up yourself. Sometime I want to build a lathe from the ground up, including casting the lathe bed and headstock out of cast iron.
Vicmarc lathes are nice, you won't be disappointed. I bought one ask me all the questions you want.

[Joe Kaufman]

"Leeson Three Phase Drip Proof Capacitor Start and with Rigid Base". I wonder what they mean by 3 Phase Capacitor Start? Probably left over from a single phase motor description.

Joe

[Dave Bender]

Looke up a guy named Steve Tiedman (MN WoodTurners Guild) in St. Paul. He did the same thing you're planing on doing. I think I'll get back to my Oneway 2436 now :)

[Dave Schell]

Barebones Vicmarc arrived today. It came well-crated and damage free. It's a beautiful thing. I like the proportions and the fit and finish is first class. Leeson motor also arrived today and I was relieved to see that the motor pulley included with the lathe fits the shaft of the motor perfectly.

I'm still tossing cabinet designs around in my head.

[Jim Kountz]

Nice Dave!! Cant wait to see that thing up and running, but I guess you're probably itching more than anyone else right!! What a beast!!

[Nathan Hawkes]

Barebones Vicmarc arrived today. It came well-crated and damage free. It's a beautiful thing. I like the proportions and the fit and finish is first class. Leeson motor also arrived today and I was relieved to see that the motor pulley included with the lathe fits the shaft of the motor perfectly.

I'm still tossing cabinet designs around in my head.



So what size is that motor shaft, out of curiosity......
I'm seriously considering doing the same thing.

[Alan Trout]

Dave that is a beauty. Congratulations.

Alan

[Dave Schell]

Nathan - the shaft diameter is 7/8 inch.

[Dave Schell]

Switches arrived today. I'm very pleased with the solidness and quality of movement with these. Found them at Automation Direct. Here is exactly what I ordered. Total cost was about $75.00

1 GCX1134 22MM MET PB BLK 40MM MOM MUSHROOM W/1NO
1 GCX1135 22MM MET PB RED 40MM MOM MUSHROOM W/1NC
1 GCX1300 SEL SW. 2 POS MAINTAINED 1 NO
1 ECX2300-10K 22MM POTENTIOMETER, 10KOHM
1 E22NS33 LEGEND PLATE START
1 E22NS34 LEGEND PLATE STOP
1 E22NS38 LEGEND PLATE FOR-REV
1 ECX2640 22MM LEGEND PLATE, POTENTIOMETER, QTY 1

I also orded this master power switch to shut off/on power to the inverter: http://www.grizzly.com/products/110-220V-On-Off-Switch/H8238

[Mike Stephens]

Very nice lathe. If you don't mind what is your total cost and how much did you save?

Thanks,
Mike

[Dave Schell]

Mike, so far my costs roughly break down as follows:

$2300 - Barebones VL300 lathe from Craft Supplies
$250 - Leesson motor from Bearings Direct
$250 - Fuji motor drive from Drives Warehouse
$75 - Switches from Automation Direction
$50 - Wood and bolts from Home Depot (for cabinet)

Total: $2925
Price for complete VL300 from CS: $4500

Savings: $1575

As for the cabinet design, I'm going to mimic the size and style of the factory cabinet from Vicmarc (only made out of southern yellow pine and MDF instead of steel). I plan to make a few modifications. No big red Stop bar across the front. Instead a couple of drawers up top and some cabinet doors down below.

I plan to start building the cabinet this weekend when it warms up enough around here for glue to dry :D

[Mike Stephens]

Very nice savings. Thanks for posting.:)

Would love to see some pics when you are finished.

[Dave Schell]

Mike, no worries on the pictures - I plan to document the process every step of the way.

[Wyatt Holm]

Why not steel?

[Dave Schell]

Why not steel?

I would love to make it out of steel, but I don't have a welder right now (or many other metal working tools either). And even if I did, I've failed welding class at the local community college twice now. :eek: The results could be iffy.

On the other hand, I've made a whole house full of furniture and cabinetry. It's what I know.

[Clarence Sears]

Dave, I just joined the forum in large part sue to your Vicmarc project. The Vic is a beauty and you have obviously done your homework! :D I am planning a similar effort myself and it is interesting because much of what you've done validates many of my plans - and gives me some new thoughts as well (the remote, for instance.) Great minds, I guess.

One question though: When I check out the literature on the ABB and other VFD's, all of them say not to use them in a dusty environment, which begs the question: wouldn't a NEMA 12 (or at least NEMA 4) enclosure/protection be a good idea? Not trying to be a spoil sport, but I'd really like to understand your thinking in this regard.

Thoughts?

[Dave Schell]

Clarence - yes - I noticed all of those warnings as well. But then I was in Woodcraft and was checking out the Jet and Powermatic lathes and there was the drive attached to the back out of the headstock right out in the open.

But on the other hand, the same instructions say the drive needs plenty of ventilation and I don't know how it gets that in a sealed enclosure. Oneway and Craft Supplies both mount their drives in metal enclosure though.

I'm taking a compromise approach on mounting mine inside of the cabinet I'm making. It will be fairly dust free- but will have lots more space inside for ventilation. See my other post today for pics of the cabinet I have started.

Good luck with your project.

[Dave Schell]

Frame of the cabinet is complete. It was a beautiful weekend here in the Carolinas so I made a lot of progress on the frame of the cabinet for the lathe. See the pics below. The sides are 3 southern yellow pine 2x10s edge glued together. I made my cabinet 32 inches tall since I'm about 6'3" - this should give me a spindle height of about 50." The cross beams are glue-ups of two pieces of SYP 1.5 x 4 for beams then that are 3" x 4." I have two on top and 3 across the bottom. The bottom ones are dadoed in to the sides. The back slopes back at 20 degrees and the bottom of the base is 28" across. The bottom ones are dadoed in to the sides. The two front vertical pieces are for the motor shelf. I'm planning to attach the shelf to those pieces with two heavy duty hinges so it can swing down and tension the belt. From here, I plan to skin the whole thing in 3/4 MDF for a nice paintable surface.

[Bob Hallowell]

Looks good, but if I could make one sugestion it would be make a way to lock down the motor plate. I first tried to use the weight of my motor plate that wieghed 60lbs and motor that weighed 50lb to tension my belt. But when I would take a heavy cut it would lift the motor and let the belt slip so I had to bolt it in place once tensioned.

Bob

[Dave Schell]

Bob - I agree on needing to lock down the motor at the right tension - I was thinking of just a screw eye on the motor mount and one on the bottom shelf of the cabinet with a turnbuckle in between to tighten it down.

[Clarence Sears]

Agreed. It is a compromise situation - and your solution is probably as good as any. (Great job on the cabinet by the way....)

[Bill Bolen]

That is turning into quite the handsome project! Wish I had your electrical knowledge! Good luck getting all running and am looking forward to a curlie coved post...Bill...

[Dave Schell]

Update on remote control. I didn't like those big mushroom buttons on the remote control - they overdominated the speed pot and direction switch. So ordered some a new green and red switches that are a bit smaller. The green one is recessed into its' housing to prevent accidental starts and the red one protrudes above its' housinge to make it easier to turn off. I also scrapped the big label for the speed pot - didn't really fit on the box. I substituted a label that says "Jog-Run" instead - fits better. I've included a pic showing the inside view of these switches. I'm impressed how well-engineered and modular they are. I plan to wire them up to the Hitachi drive using a regular Cat 6 cable. More on that when I get there. I'm back to working on the cabinet tonight.

[Bob Hallowell]

Looks good but I wouldn't use cat 6, I would use a stranded core. I would think the thin solid core in the cat 6 will fail at the connection do to the vibration

[Mike Spanbauer]

speaker wire :) It's what I just used for my speed pot on my TECO VFD. 14g stranded iirc, but that's bigger than needed.

Looking good!

mike

[Dave Schell]

Hmmmm -thanks for the heads up that Cat 6 might not be the way to go. My problem is that I need at least 7 separate wires between the VFD and the remote. That's the equivalent of 4 speaker wires. I would rather have one jacketed cable with 7 stranded wires in it. Anyone have a link to wire that fits that bill? Thanks.

[John Fricke]

The cable that they use to wire semi-trailer lighting is 7 strand. It would be at least as heavy as speaker wire.

[John Fricke]

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200312018_200312018

[Dave Schell]

I got curious and took a closer look at the Cat 6 cable I was planning to use. It is actually Cat 5 (not sure that matters much) and when I stripped the sheating off one of the conductors, it is indeed stranded wire - not a solid core. It consists of 7 very fine strands. I think I'm good to go with this stuff.

[Dave Schell]

I had another good weekend building up the cabinet for the Vicmarc. I got the whole thing skinned in 3/4" MDF (for a better paintable surface). Between the very dense southern yellow pine and the MDF, the base is beginning to get very heavy and solid. I can't pick it straight up anymore - I can only scoot it around. I'll post some pictures in a day or two.

I got curious and took a look at the Leeson motor last night. I opened up the cover on electrical connection box and was surprised to see 9 yellow wires inside. The were labelled T1 to T9. T1, T2, and T3 were all separate, the others were twisted together in pairs (T4 twisted with T7, etc). I know the VFD gets connected to T1-T3, but what are those other wires there for? Do I just leave them twisted together and put a wire nut over them?

Looks like I'll have to do a bit of research on that.

[Dave Schell]

May have just found the answer to my wiring question. Found the text below on another forum. Judging by this, it looks like my motor came configured for 440V instead of 220V and that I will have to twist some new pairs together.


9-lead motor wiring
Typical 3 phase motors come with 9 labeled wires inside the junction box, for either 220V or 440V hookups. This is industry standardized, and would be helpful for those who are about to wire up their first idler or machine tool.
For 220V, Leg 1 gets hooked to wires 1 & 7, Leg 2 gets hooked to wires 2 & 8, Leg 3 gets hooked to wires 3 & 9. Wires 4, 5, & 6 are all hooked together only. For 440V, Leg 1 gets hooked to wire 1, Leg 2 gets hooked to wire 2, Leg 3 gets hooked to wire 3. Wires 4 & 7 are connected, wires 5 & 8 are connected, and wires 6 & 9 are connected. Many tools formerly used in industry come to home shop users wired this way...we just need to unhook all nine wires and then re-wire as above.

And here's another link that explains it pretty clearly: http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1rbq8-3-phase-1hp-9-wire-230-460

[Wyatt Holm]

Just because you failed welding class, doesn't mean you can weld. I would try to find a used welder on eBay, or else get a friend who can weld it for you. I think you may like your wooden cabinet for a while, then you may want to upgrade. If you do decide to upgrade to steel, I can send you some pictures of my stand, so you can get an idea how it was. Looks like you are doing good on the electronics.

[Nathan Hawkes]

I had another good weekend building up the cabinet for the Vicmarc. I got the whole thing skinned in 3/4" MDF (for a better paintable surface). Between the very dense southern yellow pine and the MDF, the base is beginning to get very heavy and solid. I can't pick it straight up anymore - I can only scoot it around. I'll post some pictures in a day or two.

I got curious and took a look at the Leeson motor last night. I opened up the cover on electrical connection box and was surprised to see 9 yellow wires inside. The were labelled T1 to T9. T1, T2, and T3 were all separate, the others were twisted together in pairs (T4 twisted with T7, etc). I know the VFD gets connected to T1-T3, but what are those other wires there for? Do I just leave them twisted together and put a wire nut over them?

Looks like I'll have to do a bit of research on that.


So, out of curiosity, how much does it weigh, roughly?? Also, I've looked around for what a shortbed vicmarc weighs without the metal stand, and cant seem to find the weight. I know its something like 360 kg. with a stand! I'm still thinking about doing something similar, but I may just end up with a powermatic instead for lack of time.

[Dave Schell]

Nathan - the barebones Vicmarc weighs around 300 lbs. I would guess my stand weighs about 200 already. Plus I have plenty of space inside to add more ballast. I'm trying to figure out a way to weight the stand - I need one of those spring scales that you can hang something from. Maybe a visit to Tractor Supply is in order. :D

[Dave Schell]

Funny you mention that - I just found a stick welder on Craigslist today and am picking it up tonight. But that was to fix some farm equipment around here - not to build a new stand.

Just curious - what do you view as the advantages of a steel stand over a wood one? Strength, rigidity, looks? I agree that I don't like most wood stands I have seen, but I'm trying very hard in the design of this one not to make it look like wood. You won't see any joining, etc. And also why I have skinned it completely in MDF that takes paint very well. I'm hoping it comes out looking very "steel" like. Pictures will hopefully prove my point in time as I get further along.

And please, send pictures now - don't wait until I decide I don't like my wood one. :) My email is djps78@yahoo.com

[Dave Schell]

Cabinet is now ready for some paint. Over the weekend, I skinned the whole frame in MDF and patched up the screw holes. It is now ready for a coat of primer (although I primed some of the bigger pieces of MDF already in green to prevent them from warping before I installed them). The back of the cabinet will receive two doors, each hinged on the sides. The whole thing sits on 4 3"x3" foot pads cut from 5/8" thick rubber horse stall mat I had around. The front panel will get a primary power switch but other than I'm going to keep it pretty plain so I can lean up against it.

[Mike Stephens]

Looks great. I can't wait to see the end result of all your hard work.:)


Mike

[Mike Spanbauer]

That's coming together respectably well Dave!

I must say that, other than the fixed head design, this could easily be a lathe for me for my upgrade path. Greater swing than the PM and arguably superior build quality (I doubt many would argue that Vic isn't better).

Looking sharp for sure. What color are you going with?

mike

[Bernie Weishapl]

Great looking project Dave. Bench looks well built and stout. I am watching this with interest as I am looking real hard at the Vic.

[Dave Schell]

Mike, still debating the final color. I have it narrowed down to two choices: a creamy white (Oneway color) or a dark grey (lsmiliar to the color Craft Supplies uses on their cabinet). I think either color would look good with the vicmarc blue, but the grey will likely show show less stains from wet wood spinning.

[Clarence Sears]

Looks great, Dave. Can't wait to see the end result.

[Wyatt Holm]

Funny you mention that - I just found a stick welder on Craigslist today and am picking it up tonight. But that was to fix some farm equipment around here - not to build a new stand.

Just curious - what do you view as the advantages of a steel stand over a wood one? Strength, rigidity, looks? I agree that I don't like most wood stands I have seen, but I'm trying very hard in the design of this one not to make it look like wood. You won't see any joining, etc. And also why I have skinned it completely in MDF that takes paint very well. I'm hoping it comes out looking very "steel" like. Pictures will hopefully prove my point in time as I get further along.

And please, send pictures now - don't wait until I decide I don't like my wood one. :) My email is djps78@yahoo.com
Well I like the stability. Mine is made of steel, and the whole lathe is over 800 pounds very heavy. I hurt my back quite bad trying to move it a while back. If I had a concrete floor it would be more stable. Stability is the reason I would do steel.

[Dave Schell]

Mounted the motor shelf today. The lathe came with a belt already around the spindle so that saved me a few steps. I determined the positioning of the shelf by stretching the belt out the back of the headstock and measured from the midpoint of the spindle to the mid-point of the motor pulley (see photo 1). That distance was 27.5 inches. I then had to add the distance from the midpoint of the motor shaft to the motor base - which was 3.5 inches. So the distance from the midpoint of the spindle to the base of the motor is 31." To make it easy, I cut a stick to that length. I then measured the distance from the middle of the spindle to the base of the bed. That distance was 18". I put a mark on the stick at that point and then screwed the stick to my cabinet with 18" sticking above the top. See photo 2. I then went into the back of the cabinet and mounted the motor shelf to the support beams while butting it up against the stick. See photo3. Hopefully this will get me pretty close to the the motor being level when installed, but the motor shelf is on two big hinges so I can tilt it up or down a bit as needed. I plan to tension the belt by installing a turnbuckle between the motor shelf and the bottom inside of the cabinet. I also got the back doors installed. So all of the woodworking is complete. Need to apply a final coat of paint and then I can get to the really fun stuff of installing the lathe on top of the cabinet and doing the wiring.

[Joe Mioux]

Dave, this has been an enjoyable thread to read. thanks for posting.

btw: from the looks of that boat trailer it appears you have a real nice boat as well.

joe

[Dave Schell]

Joe, thanks for your interest in my saga. :)

Yes, please allow a small gloat on the boat - that is our summer time love. It's a Sea Ray 240 Sundeck. :D

[Dave Schell]

Put a few coats of the final paint color on the cabinet tonight. With a little imagination, you can almost picture the final result. The color is a dark smokey grey. I think it complements the vicmarc blue really well.

I also did the first bench test of the drive and motor. With these two expensive components sitting around the shop for a while now, I was relieved to power them up and confirm that they both work. After throwing the power switch to the drive, there are a few parameter you set (although most of the defaults were accurate to my situation). Again the manual is very clear and easy to read. I didn't have the remote connected yet - just wanted to confirm the basic start-up was successful first. Everything worked fine - although the motor produced a very high pitched, yet soft whine. Not sure I will hear it much once it is installed inside the cabinet - but if I do, it could become annoying. I plan to investigate that a bit and see what is up. Any suggestions would be welcome.

[Alan Trout]

Dave, Looking great!! Keep up the good work.

Alan

[Wyatt Holm]

I was originally going to get a pm3520, but at the last minute changed to Vicmarc. I am glad I did. I have never seen or used a nicer lathe. I am very pleased with mine. But I would say that Powermatic or Rikon is second best to Vicmarc. Sorry to all you Oneway and Robust fans, they look like they are welded to a piece of pipe, rather than being a solid cast piece. They don't look as solid to me.

[Jeff Nicol]

I was originally going to get a pm3520, but at the last minute changed to Vicmarc. I am glad I did. I have never seen or used a nicer lathe. I am very pleased with mine. But I would say that Powermatic or Rikon is second best to Vicmarc. Sorry to all you Oneway and Robust fans, they look like they are welded to a piece of pipe, rather than being a solid cast piece. They don't look as solid to me.
Wyatt, The versatility of the 3520B are why I bought it, and also the price. The Vicmarc has its place but the stationary headstock would not work for a serious large bowl turner. Leaning over the bed or having to get up and sit on the ways did not appeal to me. Sliding the headstock to the end and turning a 30" dia bowl is much easier. All the work dave is putting into making the stand and getting it all ready to turn on is fun and gives one a sense of accomplishment, but he could have been turning and enjoying the lathe for the last month. So to me in the long run the cost will be the same as if he would have bought it all ready to turn on. It is sort of like buying a Volkswagen and spending the time and money to make it a Porche. You get the satisfaction of doing it but it is never really cheaper.

Just my 2 cents,

Jeff

[Clarence Sears]

Dave,

You have done a fantastic job! I like the thoughtful approach to hooking-up the motor and VFD. And what I really like is the information about what was included with your Vic.

I also hear what Jeff is saying about the fixed headstock, but my thinking is to turn the outside of my bowls in the normal position, using the tailstock for stability; then shift to the outboard position, turning in reverse, to hollow out and finish the inside. It's really a matter of preference because you see a lot of top-tier turners like Raffin and Mahoney using their Vics in the normal position.

[Wyatt Holm]

The sliding headstock might be nice, but I can turn outboard and it will be quite similar to turning with a very short bed. As for leaning way over the bed, I don't notice myself doing that. And for sitting on it while I turn Never. I have sat on it few times but never turned that way. I think that building a lathe this way is really neat.

[Dave Schell]

Here's an update of my recent progress. With my shop, I like to have all tools moveable. So over this last weekend, I experimented with several designs for ways to slide a dolly under the lathe cabinet I built, and then jack the lathe cabinet up on the dolly and off the floor. My first attempt was to put two small inner tubes on top of the dolly and then inflate them to lift up the lathe stand. It worked but was too wobbly. I then thought I could just use 4 bolts in each corner of the dolly that would screw up from underneath the dolly and lift the lathe stand up off the floor. This worked but was a pain to get down on the floor and ratchet up and down the bolts from underneath the dolly. Finally, my son suggested mounting the bolts inside the cabinet and screw them down on to the dolly. Tried that and it works great! Much easier to access the bolts.

Last night, I did the first bench test of the remote control connected to the Hitachi VFD and motor. Before starting the tests, I also changed the carrier frequency setting of the VFD to cut down on the motor noise. Found this setting through a little research and it worked great - motor purrs away with no whining now. I next connected the remote control to the VFD and flipped the switch to move control from the VFD to the remote. No response though from the Remote - dead. However, the potentiometer on the remote was working so I knew I was in the ballpark. Got out my eletrical meter and everything was connected right and getting the right signals from the remote. I figured it must be a parameter setting in the VFD. So back to the manual. Finally found some settings that control the default state of the VFD digital, programmable terminals where the on, off, and direction switches were attached. After some fiddling with these (C013 - C015), it finally worked. Next I will be mounting the motor in the cabinet and getting the pulleys lined up. Will post some pics real soon.

Just for future reference to those in may follow in my footsteps, here are the Hitachi VFD parameters I needed to set to get everything working:

A001 = 01 (frequency source is remote)
A002 = 01 ( run/stop/direction command source is remote)
A003 = 60 (base frequency setting)
A004 = 60 (maximum frequency setting
A082 = 215 (Voltage select)

B012 = 8.6 (motor current rating - FLA = full load amps)
B083 = 10 (carrier frequency - reduces motor whine)
C003 = 22 (forward/reverse)
C004 = 21 (stop motor)
C005 = 20 (start motor)
C013 = 00 (C003 default state open )
C014 = 01 (C004 default state closed)
C015 = 00 C005 default state open)
F001 = 0 (output frequency setting)
F002 = 7 (acceleration time setting)
F003 = 7 (deceleration time setting)
F004 = 01 (sets motor direction)
H004 = 4 (number of motor poles)

[Wyatt Holm]

Yes Mahoney uses his Vicmarc lathes in that fashion. He is the one who talked me into getting one. I am glad I got longbed, sometimes I wish that it was longer.

[Jeff Nicol]

Dave, I have to ask as it has been a month now since you started this project. Where are you with total cost of all parts and materials so far? I did a rough guesstimate and I believe you are at or near $4000. I love the fact that you are soing it all and enjoying every minute of the build, but I love turning more than I like cabinet building. If you add in all your hours of time at only $15.00 and hour are you still under the cost of buying it ready to turn? Not trying to be a killjoy, but the savings of the barebones has dwindled in my eyes. I have turned more than $2000 worth of things on my 3520B in the month since you started your project. So to me your project is more of a labor of love than one of saving money.

I value my time and it is worth something, even when we say "The time spent on a project means nothing, it is the joy of doing it!" I say it all the time, but we always wish that somehow we could get compensation for our "PERSONAL PROJECTS"

But in the end your cabinet is great and you did a fine job, but at a savings..........
Just the enjoyment of the build.

Just my thoughts, because I love to turn, turn, turn!!

Jeff

[Dave Schell]

Jeff, here are my updated costs so far:

$2300 - Barebones VL300 lathe from Craft Supplies
$250 - Leeson motor from Bearings Direct
$255 - Fuji motor drive from Drives Warehouse
$75 - Switches from Automation Direction
$100 - Wood and bolts from Home Depot (for cabinet)
$50 - Misc - hardware, wire, paint

Total: $3030
Price for complete VL300 from CS: $4500 - Savings $1575
Price of Oneway 2416 with 3HP: $6350 - Savings $3320

I agree with your assessment though - if I have to calculate in the value of my time in this project, it would have been more cost effective to just buy the complete lathe. That is pretty much true for anything that is custom built over factory built though. I learned that lesson a long time ago building furniture for myself and for friends. To justify the time and cost of building anything customized, you really have to have a strong desire for a customized piece to justify, you have to be skilled at building it (or willing to research and learn), and you really have to enjoy doing it. If I wanted instant gratification, I would have just bought a ready made lathe. But I didn't in this case, I wanted a very custom lathe.

As I said in my very first post to this thread though, a project like this is exactly up my alley. I LOVE building stuff myself. I can save some money. I can learn new skills. I can get exactly what I want. And I know exactly what went into it, and how to maintain, repair, and upgrade it. Just the challenge of building this was my primary motivation.

When I owned my Oneway 2436 before, I was always a little frightened by that mystery box down below (the VFD). I knew it was the brains of the lathe, but I heard that you kept your hands off of it, and heaven-forbid if it ever went out, it was very expensive to replace and reprogram. From this project though, I am intimately familiar with the VFD. I know what it does, how it is wired, how it is programmed, how to add new features to my lathe through it, and how to customize any of the settings for it. Same goes for the motor and the remote control box.

Also, with my Oneway, I hated that Control Box on a stick - it never seemed in the right place when I needed it. With my custom lathe, I got a control box that I can place anywhere I want via a 6 foot Cat6 cable.

As to having a burning desire to turn instead of build a cabinet. That didn't fit my profile right now. I turned about two hundred bowls and HFs on my Oneway when I owned it. I was willing to postpone getting back into turning a month or so in order to build a lathe perfectly suited to my needs and that will last me a lifetime. It's also been fun and rewarding documenting my journey in a public forum.

Hope that explains it all. :)

[Alan Trout]

Dave very well said! I agree with your position 100%. By the way great work so far, waiting for a few more pictures. :)


Alan

[Don Carter]

Dave:
I have really enjoyed reading your posts and keeping up with your build. Plus, now I know someone that can wire and program the "box" if I ever get one.:rolleyes:
I am looking forward to launch.

All the best.

Don

[Jim Evans]

Dave:
I have really enjoyed reading your posts and keeping up with your build. Plus, now I know someone that can wire and program the "box" if I ever get one.:rolleyes:
I am looking forward to launch.

All the best.

Don



I'm looking forward to seeing it with shavings all over it!

[Dave Schell]

Final Wiring Pics. Here are some pictures of how I wired everything up. The first pic is a view inside of the remote control box. I used cat 6 cable. The orange wire connects to the main 24V power terminal of the VFD so has to get split 3 ways to feed each of the 3 switches. The speed gets it's own 3 wires. I had one wire left unused. Picture 2 is the cat 6 cable wired to the VFD. And pic 3 is a view inside the cabinet showing everything wired together. You can also see the motor installed with a turnbuckle used to adjust belt tension.

[Dave Schell]

Moving the lathe. Here's how I got the whole thing to be moveable when I need it. I built a very sturdy dolly with 6 casters to support the weight. It is sized to slide easily underneath the lathe. The 4 5/8 inch bolts inside the cabinet (with a nut embedded and secured in the underside of the cabinet) then screw down on the dolly (hitting the 4 aluminum plates at the corners of the dolly) to lift the lathe off of the floor and onto the dolly. With the bolts inside the cabinet, I can very easily use a pneumatic wrench to lift the lathe off the floor and onto the dolly. Overall, this system works great!

[Scott Conners]

That is an elegant solution for mobility! it's hard to tell from the photo - is the caster base steel or wood?

[Jeff Nicol]

Jeff, here are my updated costs so far:

$2300 - Barebones VL300 lathe from Craft Supplies
$250 - Leeson motor from Bearings Direct
$255 - Fuji motor drive from Drives Warehouse
$75 - Switches from Automation Direction
$100 - Wood and bolts from Home Depot (for cabinet)
$50 - Misc - hardware, wire, paint

Total: $3030
Price for complete VL300 from CS: $4500 - Savings $1575
Price of Oneway 2416 with 3HP: $6350 - Savings $3320

I agree with your assessment though - if I have to calculate in the value of my time in this project, it would have been more cost effective to just buy the complete lathe. That is pretty much true for anything that is custom built over factory built though. I learned that lesson a long time ago building furniture for myself and for friends. To justify the time and cost of building anything customized, you really have to have a strong desire for a customized piece to justify, you have to be skilled at building it (or willing to research and learn), and you really have to enjoy doing it. If I wanted instant gratification, I would have just bought a ready made lathe. But I didn't in this case, I wanted a very custom lathe.

As I said in my very first post to this thread though, a project like this is exactly up my alley. I LOVE building stuff myself. I can save some money. I can learn new skills. I can get exactly what I want. And I know exactly what went into it, and how to maintain, repair, and upgrade it. Just the challenge of building this was my primary motivation.

When I owned my Oneway 2436 before, I was always a little frightened by that mystery box down below (the VFD). I knew it was the brains of the lathe, but I heard that you kept your hands off of it, and heaven-forbid if it ever went out, it was very expensive to replace and reprogram. From this project though, I am intimately familiar with the VFD. I know what it does, how it is wired, how it is programmed, how to add new features to my lathe through it, and how to customize any of the settings for it. Same goes for the motor and the remote control box.

Also, with my Oneway, I hated that Control Box on a stick - it never seemed in the right place when I needed it. With my custom lathe, I got a control box that I can place anywhere I want via a 6 foot Cat6 cable.

As to having a burning desire to turn instead of build a cabinet. That didn't fit my profile right now. I turned about two hundred bowls and HFs on my Oneway when I owned it. I was willing to postpone getting back into turning a month or so in order to build a lathe perfectly suited to my needs and that will last me a lifetime. It's also been fun and rewarding documenting my journey in a public forum.

Hope that explains it all. :)
Dave, Thanks for your reply, I agree with you on many things and your build is great! I was just curious. I agree with you on the Oneway lathes with the controls on a stick thing! Also the price of the Oneway is just plain crazy anyway, I could get 2 more PM3520B's for the same price!! Just a happy 3520B owner!

Good luck and have fun with your lathe! I am in the process of building a CNC router table so I know all about the love of building it on your own!

Thanks again,

Jeff

[Dave Schell]

Scott - thanks. The dolly is made of southern yellow pine. The two long pieces are about 4.5" x 3" and the two side pieces are 1.5" x 4" mortised/tenoned into the long pieces. Using an air ratchet on the 5/8" bolts quickly lifts the lathe up off the floor and onto the dolly. I'm very pleased with this solution (just wish I would have thought of it originally instead of all of the other variations I tried first :mad:)

[Clarence Sears]

I sure have to agree with Scott. That is an elegant solution, Dave:D Can't wait to see your first turning!

[Mark Norman]

For the sake of building it and the rewards you reap.

Congrats! Job well done...

[Dave Schell]

All covered in shavings. We finally got some nice weather here in Carolina so it was a perfect day to take the Vicmarc for its first serious test drive. This is my son, Derek, taking a turn on a piece of holly. The lathe performed great. The piece was really out of round when we first chucked it up and the lathe stood still and handled it. I have some minor tweaking still to do on programming the VFD parameters. But all in all, I'm very satisfied. Thanks for all the encouragement along the way!

[Alan Trout]

Looks great!! congratulations on a great build.

Alan

[Don Carter]

Dave:
Great job! Should give many years of turning. The cabinet looks super!

All the best.

Don

[Mark Norman]

All covered in shavings. We finally got some nice weather here in Carolina so it was a perfect day to take the Vicmarc for its first serious test drive. This is my son, Derek, taking a turn on a piece of holly. The lathe performed great. The piece was really out of round when we first chucked it up and the lathe stood still and handled it. I have some minor tweaking still to do on programming the VFD parameters. But all in all, I'm very satisfied. Thanks for all the encouragement along the way!
LOL at the shavings in his hair!! Throwin curls is he? I'm glad its working as planed and yer sure to get many years of enjoyment from it... and a few hunderd bowls I'm sure..

Good job Dave, Great pics too!

[Norm Zax]

Wow indeed! Well done indeed!
Now for that tool holder attachment at the end of the lathe?

[alex carey]

Congratulations on a fantastic build. That is a beauty, I'm sure it'll serve you well.

[Clarence Sears]

Ditto to what the guys have said! It's been a fantastic ride :D Happy turning!

[Joshua Dinerstein]

"Leeson Three Phase Drip Proof Capacitor Start and with Rigid Base". I wonder what they mean by 3 Phase Capacitor Start? Probably left over from a single phase motor description.

Joe
Joe, it is my understanding from some of my own readings that the 3-phase motors need quite a bit of juice to actually kick over and run. So they use capacitors to charge that up and then fire up the motor. Without them, on an old motor I had access to, you had to spin it by hand and then kick the power on. Once you did it would spin up quickly to proper speed.

I have heard them used in that way referred to as "start capacitors". Since the description was about the device rather than a component of the motor it is possible that this is just another way of saying that same thing.

Joshua

[Harvey Schneider]

Try this, with or without the connectors. It is four pair of 24 gauge stranded copper wire.

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/CB-560/6-CAT-5E-PATCH-CABLE/-/1.html

[Bernie Weishapl]

Dave great job on the bench for your lathe. Must have been throwing some curlies around like the one's in your hair. Looks mighty fine and a great savings.

[Dave Mueller]

Just for future reference to those in may follow in my footsteps, here are the Hitachi VFD parameters I needed to set to get everything working:

A001 = 01 (frequency source is remote)
A002 = 01 ( run/stop/direction command source is remote)
A003 = 60 (base frequency setting)
A004 = 60 (maximum frequency setting
A082 = 215 (Voltage select)

B012 = 8.6 (motor current rating - FLA = full load amps)
B083 = 10 (carrier frequency - reduces motor whine)
C003 = 22 (forward/reverse)
C004 = 21 (stop motor)
C005 = 20 (start motor)
C013 = 00 (C003 default state open )
C014 = 01 (C004 default state closed)
C015 = 00 C005 default state open)
F001 = 0 (output frequency setting)
F002 = 7 (acceleration time setting)
F003 = 7 (deceleration time setting)
F004 = 01 (sets motor direction)
H004 = 4 (number of motor poles)
[/quote]
Dave,
I just bought a VL300 longbed bench top from Woodworker's Emporium in Las Vegas and plan to do the same as you. It looks like you did a great job - I hope mine turns out as well.

I have a few questions before I purchase the motor and controller and start building.

1. Did you consider a vector controller to get higher torque at the lower RPM? I believe the complete Australian Vicmarcs have a vector controller, whereas the Craft Supply one does not. I wonder if anyone has noticed any difference.

2. You mention that you changed the carrier frequency, but didn't say what the actual frequency was. Does "B83= 10" mean the carrier freq is 10 kHz?

3. Have you tried increasing the maximum frequency setting above 60 Hz? I built my own lathe before buying the Vicmarc and ran my 2 HP motor up to 85 Hz and get an RPM range from about 100 to 2500 without changing belts. The motor manufacturer said this was OK as long as the motor did not get too hot at the lower frequency.

4. The biggest problem I had with my homemade lathe was alignment of the tailstock spindle with the headstock spindle. Do you know how well the Vicmarc lines up, and is there an adjustment if it needs to be realigned?

Again, you did a great job. The wiring looks really professional.
Dave

[Jeff Nicol]

Dave, All the hard work has paid off and it is spinning wood! Make sure to post some pics of the finished pieces.

Jeff

[Matt Hutchinson]

I just wanted to thank you for giving such detailed information. Like the others, I have been wanting to created a VS lathe. Now I feel like I could tackle the job with no worries. Congratulations on a cool tool and very helpful thread!!

Hutch