FRAUD/SCAM ALERT!! Mike Morgan @ PaLumber.com

[Mark Hochstein]

DO NOT buy lumber from "Mike Morgan"- doing business as PALumber.com . I ordered and paid for $1159 worth of Ash and Cherry the day after Thanksgiving. He said it would be delivered by the end of the following week. After getting the run-around for 5 weeks and waiting for delivery trucks that never showed up I canceled my order. He always had excuses as to what happened, but he would never send me a bill of lading for a shipment. He promptly "refunded" my money via PayPal, but the refund was denied twice due to insufficient funds. He said he would FedEx me a check which never arrived. I requested a tracking # for the check which I never got. That was the last I heard from him. Now he won't return calls or emails. I filed a claim through PayPal and they found in my favor but were unable to get the money from his account. I contacted his local police department and they said the lumber mill has been closed for 6 months. He may have done business at some point, but now he's just a scam artist.

DO NOT order lumber from PALUMBER.COM or from Michael Morgan.

[Steve H Graham]

One nice thing: he can't afford to sue you.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Thats strange, Mike was or is a member, and there where more than a few satisfied customers here. Tough times are no fun for anybody, suppliers or customers, hope this works out for you.

[chris weir]

Mark- You are not the only one who has been taken. Quite a few members here at SMC have lost their money to Mike Morgan.

I have found a great local sawmill, and will probably not buy lumber on-line again because of my bad experience with Mike.

[Dewey Torres]

Very surprising and unfortunate really. I hope it works out for you.

[Roger Barlow]

Mike took my order on Nov but has missed the due date with no response to emails. I am fortunate that I didn't pay up front, because I would have put up a deposit if he wanted one, we have done satisfactory business before. Seems like I'll have to go back to my local supplier of sometimes good but usually poor quality cherry.

[Kevin Davis]

I had similar problems as did another member here in Colorado. It was perhaps the most painful transaction I have had in the past 5 years. I am not sure if he pulled himself off the vendor list or is Sawmill Creek pulled him off but I concur that I would never do business with Mike again or recommend anyone else does.

[Gary Herrmann]

Sorry to hear about you folks that lost money to him. I came very close to buying from him, but elected to buy locally - so I could see what I was getting.

I hope you get your money back or at least some measure of satisfaction.

[Dave Mura]

Some info on Mike
http://whois.domaintools.com/palumber.com

[Peter Scoma]

That really stings. I'm glad I live near Hearne.

PS

[Leigh Betsch]

Strange indeed. I bought 450 bf of cherry and maple last summer, very happy with the wood and service. I planned to order again but I guess I'll change my mind. I wondered why he no longer advertises here. Sounds like he ran into money problems.

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I got good service a few years ago from Mike but this doesn't look good.

[Dan Lee]

Hmm I bought couple hundred BF of wide cherry last summer. Great stuff, price everything went really smooth.

[Tom Veatch]

FWIW, the "Monthly Special" on the www.palumber.com (http://www.palumber.com) website is still showing the "November" special. That suggests there's been no updates for about 3 months.

[Leigh Betsch]

I talked with Mike several times on the phone when I had my order in and he called several times afterward to let me know of some exceptional figured wood. No hard sell just letting me know that he had some really good stuff. He sure seamed honest to me and treated me right when I bought from him. Sorry to hear that things turned south.

[Scott Rollins]

Glad I read this!!!! I was just about to order $3000 worth of QWSO flooring:eek:.

[John Stan]

Wow, I had the almost exact same experience with him. I ordered $1800 worth of wood in July and never received it. I I experienced the, same challenges as you, lots of promises that the wood had been sent, lots of "it will be there tomorrow" amd he never sent it. It took till November to get all my money back. He even sent me a check that bounced. He told me what I believe to me many lies throughout my process of dealing with him. My advice is also to stay away from Mike Morgan and PALUMBER.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Mark, I'm sorry to hear that. I was also wondering what happened to the Morgan Lumber listing lower on the main page.

Slightly OT, but there's another "scam" in that situation that we should all be aware of: PayPal Buyers Protection. The PayPal buyers protection is a joke and I learned it the hard way years ago. PayPal will/can only refund you the money if the "at fault" person has the CASH in their account. No cash = no refund. If you make a transaction through PayPal use a credit card, not cash. At least with the credit card company you can call them and dispute the charge. You may or will also have to file a dispute with PayPal and have them find in your favor before the credit card company can do anything. But your chances are higher of getting your money back from thecreidt card when your goods are not delivered.

[Brent Smith]

I have to say this reminds me of what happened with a certain infill plane company a few years ago. In that case a couple of good guys got in way too deep and to try and bail themselves out, and satisfy their customers, they resorted to some not so kosher business tactics. It back fired on them and many people lost money. They also lost most of their money and properties over it.

I think that a thread named "FRAUD/SCAM ALERT" might be going overboard. I certainly agree that this business is having a hard time and is headed, if not already there, for the dumpster. The thing that I think people should realize is that from all indications he ran a good business with good product and good service for quite some time. Okay, he's not doing so anymore, but could it be that circumstances just got the better of him as in the case of the plane company? A thread detailing the facts by the OP and perhaps a warning to be cautious when dealing with this individual would have been more appropriate than screaming fraud and scam from the rooftops.

[Pat Germain]

When a business takes money from a customer and never delivers the agreed upon product, that's both a scam and fraud. It doesn't matter what the business did in the past. So, I think the title of the thread is appropriate.

I understand some good people get over their heads and need time to recover. But if they're commiting fraud and scamming customers, it's worth calling out and warning others.

[Michael Morgan]

First off I sent Mark and email yesterday telling him what I can and will do to take care of this. Secondly I am not trying to scam anyone. Any problem can and will be resolved. Will it be today or tomorrow? Probably not but it will be resolved. Am I having a rough time right now? Absolutley. Can I get it straightened out? Definatley. Anyone that needs to contact me can do so by calling 724-272-4451 or info@palumber.com

I have had hundreds actually well over a thousand great transactions over the last several years but the last few months have been a train wreck.

Here is what happened several months ago and what I am doing to make sure I am never in this position again. I went full time in the lumber business probably a year and a half ago. Things were going well and better than expected. Then last fall things started to slow down a little, and I started getting a little nervous especially reading all the doom and gloom predictions for the economy. I was offered a good job doing what I used to do and figured I could do both. Then the lumber business picked up and quite a bit. I hired a guy to help and that lasted a week, then had two others since then. I was working all day at a job then half the night at the warehouse picking orders and palletizing and banding them. Then since I couldn't be there during the day I was hauling multiple orders sometimes at 4:00a.m. to different terminals before work. Other problems that would always happen would be you send someone a quote for say 200 b.f. of 8/4 hard maple, then you don't hear from that person for a week or two and then you get a pay pal payment from someone you don't even remember for something that you sold the day before to someone else. Then material like hard maple (we don't have good white hard maple here) I have to buy. So then I order 2 thousand feet from my supplier 3 hours away and then try to find a decent day of weather to haul. Then one week turns into two and so on. Then I also have a snow removal business that has just been nuts this winter. We do a big box store parking lot and part of a mall. About 10 acres of asphalt total to try and keep black and wet. It's been a great winter for that business but although I always get paid it doesnt happen quick, 45-60 days is the norm. And this is after I already spent close to 20k in salt fuel and labor.

Now for the solution, Instead of doing it the way I have been, someone orders 50bf 4/4 cherry, 50bf 8/4 cherry, 80bf 4/4 qswo etc. and me picking that order palletizing and shipping. I have been working for several months on an on line store that will have 250 items, with pictures, dimensions, descriptionsand all other information. I have one guy that helps with the pictures and boxing and packaging, and a girl who enters everything into the catalog on the online store. We are up to 180 lots now that are all down, including pictures, desciptions, and pallets or boxed up ready to go. The online store will have 15 catogories and 250 items from 10 board feet to 200 board feet. Then when a lot sells all I have to do is put the bill of lading with it or fedex ground lable on it. Then we will just be in maintain mode and replacing items as they sell.

Anyway I have to go now but like i said, any problem that needs to be taken care of will be just call me or e-mail me. Don't get nervous if I don't get back to you immediatley especially in the next couple days because we are going to get another good snow tonight through tomorrow and I will be very busy with the snow removal gig. Also let me say if i wasn't going to make things right and straighten out my lumber business i wouldn't have spent the last half hour typing this:o (i don't type very fast) also for an example of what I am trying to do. I got wind a couple weeks ago of a guy on another forum who said he wasnt happy with some lumber he got from me almost three years ago. I sent him more cherry within two weeks of learning of the problem. Like I said, I am working on it. I will never, ever, give up.
Thanks
MM

[Jess Wetherhold]

I had the same experience. I ordered 200bf of walnut on 10/07. I got the run around for 6 months. He said that it was shipped to the wrong person, it was lost yadda yadda... I finally threatened a lawsuit and was refunded my money via paypal. Well, I placed the order again. When I received the wood it was wet! Measured 22% moisture. He said he had kiln problems. I asked for a refund and received it thank God.
I also ordered some "curly" maple from him and got the same run around for 3 weeks. He claimed that he mailed it to the wrong person again. He must use that line a lot. When I received it there was hardly any curl. He said that I received Jim Beckers lumber (order he cancelled??) and it had curl. I ended up not paying for that either.
On the phone he seemed like a really honest, good guy which is why I gave him 3 chances. He also said that he had health issues. Either way it's just too risky with him.

[Dick Sylvan]

Mike took my order on Nov but has missed the due date with no response to emails. I am fortunate that I didn't pay up front, because I would have put up a deposit if he wanted one, we have done satisfactory business before. Seems like I'll have to go back to my local supplier of sometimes good but usually poor quality cherry.
It seems silly to me that just because one operator goes out of business we should jump to conclusions that we should quit ordering over the internet. There are still lots of good reliable lumber dealers out there, several in SE Pennsylvania, for example, that I have used with good results over the years.

[Mike Langford]

I say give the guy a chance to make things right (claims he trying).......

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

You can sue him personally for the losses.

His actions sound like you can make out a great case for a piercing.
When you make your your complaint in PA make sure you use both the name of his company And his personal name in the caption and next to his name you put the following "in his personal capacity" so as to comport with PA pleading requirements that you put him on notice that it is his tush you are going after.

[Stephen Edwards]

I don't know Mike nor have I ever bought lumber from his company. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

My HOPE is that he will resolve issues with everyone who has had issues with his company. From reading the posts it does seem that there have been many satisfied customers over the years, as well as those who haven't been satisfied.

If he's being truthful in his post above it sounds like he's working on improving his business model.

For the folks with unresolved issues, please keep us posted. These are tough times we're in now. If Mike rights the wrongs that he's apparently done, my hat's off to him. For those who have lost money and hopefully have their issues resolved in the near future, my hat's off to them, too, if they can forgive him.

I don't have much sense but that's my two cents.

Best Wishes to All,

[Maik Tobin]

Although I have not purchased any lumber from Mike in the last six months due to a lack need on my part, I have purchased lumber from Mike approximately 10 times. ALL were good experiences. On one occassion, when I was not totaly happy with some of the wood, Mike made it up to me in spades on subsequent loads.
I have known Mike to be a stand up guy. Sounds to me like he got spread to thin, trying to do to much at one time.
I would be very surprised if he did not make good on these deals and I WILL buy from him again.

[Rob Parsons]

My experience with Mike Morgan has been very similar. He still owes me $1246.

I followed Mike and his lumber business on SMC for about a year. He always had good recommendations. In July 2008 I placed an order of assorted hardwoods for $2427. I payed through PayPal.

After innumerable excuses and broken promises, I received half my order at the end of Oct 08. I canceled the remainder of the order and asked for a refund. I received a personal check that bounced and more promises/excuses. It has now been 6 months since initial payment.

I had refrained from posting this to give him a chance to make everything right. However, one of the things most troubling to me is that he still seems to be trying to sell lumber.

If anyone wants more details of my experience, PM me.

[Peter Scoma]

When a business takes money from a customer and never delivers the agreed upon product, that's both a scam and fraud. It doesn't matter what the business did in the past. So, I think the title of the thread is appropriate.

I understand some good people get over their heads and need time to recover. But if they're commiting fraud and scamming customers, it's worth calling out and warning others.

+1 Consider also that the OP would likely not have gotten a response had he not posted this thread. Communication would have solved this problem.

PS

[Brent Smith]

What I'm finding interesting at this point is that the OP Mark Hochstein has not replied to Mike Morgan's statement that he sent him an email. Considering that he has only made one post here I would think that he would want to follow up on it. As a matter of fact, at the time I'm writing this, he hasn't signed in to the forum at all since posting his displeasure. Sorry, it just really get's my goat when people use woodworking forums to cry and complain, but don't contribute anything else.

[Chris Padilla]

Brent,

While what you say is true about the single post, it doesn't make the situation any less than what it is.... Also, there may be PMs or private emails going on that you do not know about. Just food for thought....

[Steve Rozmiarek]

What I'm finding interesting at this point is that the OP Mark Hochstein has not replied to Mike Morgan's statement that he sent him an email. Considering that he has only made one post here I would think that he would want to follow up on it. As a matter of fact, at the time I'm writing this, he hasn't signed in to the forum at all since posting his displeasure. Sorry, it just really get's my goat when people use woodworking forums to cry and complain, but don't contribute anything else.


Good point Brent, and I agree with you.

The OP has his communication, now what? I hope he and Mike can get this all resolved, and it does no one any good if the rest of us pile on either. We are human, we goof, good people fix their goofs though. Hopefully it will happen in this case.

[Rob Parsons]

I don't know about the original posters situation, but I have communicated with Mike Morgan until I'm blue in the face. I have called and emailed for six months. All I've gotten are empty promises, excuses, and a bounced check. I have given him the benefit of the doubt at every turn. I refrained going public on this forum to give him a chance to resolve this in private. I even told him he could send me $100 a month until I was paid off. That's an interest free loan for a year.

Six months is a ridiculous amount of time to complete a business transaction.

[chris weir]

Mike has committed fraud and should be held accountable for his actions. When a business accepts a deposit or payment in full for goods or services and does not deliver, it is nothing short of fraud.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Mike has committed fraud and should be held accountable for his actions. When a business accepts a deposit or payment in full for goods or services and does not deliver, it is nothing short of fraud.

Chris, and others, it's a little hypocritical to accept one side of this story completely, but to completely write the other off as hooey. No one is being forced to do business here, and there are other avenues more suited then this forum for legitimate legal grievances. It sounds as if some may end up there, but it really is none of the rest of our business, beyond being cautioned.

If the person in question where to file for one of the bankruptcies, everyone would loose. There is a good reason to try to be civil and exercise some good, old fashioned patience and understanding.

[Michael McCoy]

Chris, and others, it's a little hypocritical to accept one side of this story completely, but to completely write the other off as hooey. No one is being forced to do business here, and there are other avenues more suited then this forum for legitimate legal grievances. It sounds as if some may end up there, but it really is none of the rest of our business, beyond being cautioned.

If the person in question where to file for one of the bankruptcies, everyone would loose. There is a good reason to try to be civil and exercise some good, old fashioned patience and understanding.

That was refreshing. No doubt Mike blew it but I have been a major customer of his for the last couple of years. I'm betting that he will fix his problems and I have every intention of remaining a buyer of his stock. Geez guys, he blew it, he didn't fix it in a timely manner but I am getting the impression he just got over his head but that doesn't mean he needs to be lynched. I like the guy and I like doing business with him. Hopefully that can continue once these things are fixed.

[Dan Lee]

Well I guess we can all decide for ourselves if we want to enter into a business transaction that has the possible out come the OP and a some others in the thread have recently experienced.
Apparently not an isolated situation and I didn't read that Mike disputed the claims.
My one experience with him was very satisfactory but I woulld think long and hard about future dealings

[Craig McCormick]

I am wishing Mike some good luck. My gut tells me he will make it right in the end.

I have been self employed for 18 years now and have experienced some pretty big financial troubles in the first years. Thanks to some patient people I was able to satisfy every one I had left hanging.

I am on the edge again in these hard times. I'll be working on my resume tonight.

Good luck to all that are hurting in this situation.

AZCRAIG

[Mark Hochstein]

I think that a thread named "FRAUD/SCAM ALERT" might be going overboard....A thread detailing the facts by the OP and perhaps a warning to be cautious when dealing with this individual would have been more appropriate than screaming fraud and scam from the rooftops.

Brent, I respectfully disagree with you. My intention was to make sure that everyone possible her about this to make sure that none of my fellow honest woodworkers lost a penny more to this individual. Is "FRAUD/SCAM ALERT" inflammatory language? I don't think so, but at least it got you to read the post which was exactly my intention. Is promising something and taking someones money and not delivering the product, fraud? Yup. If he returns the money at a much later date (which is still questionable) and takes a nice interest free loan from you for several months - a scam? Yup. I'm not sure what you would have preffered that I call it, but I callit as I see it and chose those words carefully. It also seems to be having exactly the indended result.
Before I sent ~$1200 via PayPal, I did an internet seach for "palumber" just to see if I could find any negative info, unfortunately due to the structure of some of these forums, past complaints had been deleted and there was no info available. I don't want that to happen to the next guy - or the guy after him.

[Barry Vabeach]

I stayed on the sidelines as long as I felt proper but feel compelled to throw in my 2 cents. I responded to a classified ad from Mike about a group delivery of wood to Virginia which was supposed to occur the first week of July, 2008. By email 6/30 he said he had the lumber and could ship it out that day, or he could bring it with him when he came to town in 3 or 4 days if that was okay with the group. Then according to his emails his mom went in the hospital, then later she passed away ( I responded that there were things far more important than our lumber order ). By 8/1 he said he would be in town in 3 days, then his wife got busy at work, then by 8/13 he decided to ship it, On 8/16 said mine would ship tomorrow, On 8/30 he said they shipped last week and we would get a call from the delivery yard giving us 3 hours notice before the part coming to me was delivered to my house, on 9/3 he claimed they were at the delivery yard and would be delivered any day, on 9/22 he said he was going to pick it up at the delivery yard himself and bring it. On 9/26 he said he was going to send another order because the Richmond delivery yard was sending the first order back to him, and around the end of the month my order arrived. Sorry to go into such detail, and I did skip a lot of emails and calls in between the ones listed, but in my opinion, he is a fraud. If he had trouble with inventory, say so. I can't tell you how many times I rearranged my work schedule so I could be able to leave on 3 hours notice, yet no delivery and no word from Mike. While I did receive the lumber it was only after I sent an email to him, and the rest of the group saying I was going to post something on a forum if I didn't hear from him soon. In his defense, I have no proof that he intended to scam anyone ( that he sold us the lumber without the intent to deliver) In addition he threw in some free ash to make up for the delay. I feel he is a fraud because I refuse to believe his email that he had the lumber ready to ship on 6/30 and it didn't arrive till 9/30 - would you? I also don't believe a lot of the other stories he told and guess he ran out of cash to buy our lumber and had to tell us stories to delay until he raised enough to get it. A lot of times we put our trust in others and it turns out well repaid. I also know a lot of businesses get caught up in a financial downturn and some customers get burnt - again that isn't fraud. I don't think that he took my money knowing he couldn't deliver, but I certainly wouldn't deal with him in the future. Despite his word that it was first class lumber, most of what I got was okay - nothing to brag about and certainly not worth the risk that it never showed up and the hassle of endless stories of why it wasn't here but would be tomorrow. If you want to deal with him that is fine with me, but I would feel bad if someone else got stung and I sat by in silence. I know there is some complaint that the OP hasn't responded and I didn't want that to make it seem like Mike is like most of the posters here whose word is like gold. Barry

[John Shuk]

I hope everyone gets things resolved. It seems that when things close in on you they really close in fast. The power of the internet and a forum like this is that you can grow waay too much waay too fast. I hope all get their money back and are kind enough to mention if they did or not here. Seems like it took some kind of honesty to reply to the thread on Mike's part.
I think he's got alot of rebuilding of his reputation to do if he wants to keep selling wood.
As I said I hope it all works out for everybody. I hate seeing what appeared to be a good deal for all parties go away.

[Mark Hochstein]

Guys,
This is not a personal vendetta. I'm not trying to turn it into a soap opera either. I just wanted to pass along what I though was critical information. It has worked, Scott Rollins was just about to send him $3000 for flooring! I promise that I will keep you all in the loop on any concrete developments, but I'm not going to give a play-by-play account for everyone's viewing pleasure.

[Bailey John]

this is very surprising to read here and on other boards. I bought 500 bft of oak and cherry from Mike in summer of 06. He delivered a batch to us in NVA and MD area. Great price too - about $2-3 if I recall. I paid cash on delivery. He said he was working on a large batch recovered at an auction and also traveling down to NC to pick up wood he got a deal on.

Hope you all make out whole again. This sounds like how Madoff got started going bad......:mad:

[Dan Lee]

Guys,
This is not a personal vendetta. I'm not trying to turn it into a soap opera either. I just wanted to pass along what I though was critical information. It has worked, Scott Rollins was just about to send him $3000 for flooring! I promise that I will keep you all in the loop on any concrete developments, but I'm not going to give a play-by-play account for everyone's viewing pleasure.

I for one appreciate your post. We should hear the good as well as the not so good about WWing related businesses so we can make our own assessments.

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I for one appreciate your post. We should hear the good as well as the not so good about WWing related businesses so we can make our own assessments.

Me too. Mike, we're done. Sorry.

[Brent Smith]

Brent,

While what you say is true about the single post, it doesn't make the situation any less than what it is.... Also, there may be PMs or private emails going on that you do not know about. Just food for thought....

Hi Chris,

I'm certainly not trying to make the situation seem like any less than it is. My sole problem here was the thread title. I think that it was harsh and more than a bit overboard. If this had been a company that appeared out of the blue, a title like that may have been more appropriate. Considering that Morgan has done business for a few years with many on this forum, and I believe even had a sub in the vendors forum, a less inflammatory heading may have been in order (and yes, no apologies for this, but especially from a first time poster).

I've never had dealing with either of the parties involved here, but have been in business for more than 30 years. I've seen good people get so far in over their heads that they start to lose control over everything. I have, on occasion, warned others against doing business with people in that situation, but never by screaming out fraud. Whether there was fraud going on here isn't for any of us to decide, but rather if it comes to that, for a criminal court judge to decide. What this thread has done is make people aware to the fact that perhaps now is not the time to put our money on the line with this individual, but as I've said that could have been accomplished with a far less demeaning thread title.

[Matt Campbell]

Brent,

I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with you. However, I will say that this same public complaint happened a couple of months ago on Woodnet. Lots of people complained, and Mike said he'd make everything right. He even included hunting pictures to show how busy he had been. Well, he's had ample time to get many (maybe not all) things right, and he hasn't. If it smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then.......

[Craig Coney]

However, I will say that this same public complaint happened a couple of months ago on Woodnet. Lots of people complained, and Mike said he'd make everything right. He even included hunting pictures to show how busy he had been. Well, he's had ample time to get many (maybe not all) things right, and he hasn't. If it smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then.......


Priorities.....Maybe he was hunting for that darn duck. Sorry, couldn't resist..

I had issues with Mike on an order from September, same story as others here, but they got resolved. I might order from Mike again in the future if and when he gets things straightened out.

Sometimes you can't see the forest thru the trees.

[Matt Campbell]

Honestly, I think Mike should move his operation down here. Then he and I can work together, and he won't have such a big work load. ;)

[Rob Parsons]

Brent, I believe in taking the high road. I've given Mike 6 months to deliver lumber or refund my money. I feel that's more than reasonable. Until today, I had kept this out of the forum, preferring to settle our differences in private. I even checked with the moderators to see if there was a way to handle this behind the scenes. I even offered a payment plan, interest free. His unwillingness to send me $100 a month speaks to his intentions.

All the while, he is actively taking other people's money. I paid Mike Morgan in July. Mark paid the day after Thanksgiving. Scott was about to pay him $3000.

This is more than an isolated event. This is a pattern of willful deception.

One more point. Tough economic times affect everyone. What about businesses on the other end of these transactions? What if he destroyed some one else's business because of his deception?

[Joe Jensen]

Brent, I believe in taking the high road. I've given Mike 6 months to deliver lumber or refund my money. I feel that's more than reasonable. Until today, I had kept this out of the forum, preferring to settle our differences in private. I even checked with the moderators to see if there was a way to handle this behind the scenes. I even offered a payment plan, interest free. His unwillingness to send me $100 a month speaks to his intentions.

All the while, he is actively taking other people's money. I paid Mike Morgan in July. Mark paid the day after Thanksgiving. Scott was about to pay him $3000.

This is more than an isolated event. This is a pattern of willful deception.

One more point. Tough economic times affect everyone. What about businesses on the other end of these transactions? What if he destroyed some one else's business because of his deception?

I for one am glad that you shared. Too bad for those who have lost. There are plenty of suppliers who don't have issues, no need to patronize the ones who do..joe

[Paul Johnstone]

I think that a thread named "FRAUD/SCAM ALERT" might be going overboard. ... A thread detailing the facts by the OP and perhaps a warning to be cautious when dealing with this individual would have been more appropriate than screaming fraud and scam from the rooftops.


Well, if I ordered over a thousand dollars worth of lumber, it never showed up, and I couldn't contact the guy, I'd consider myself scammed too.

This is more than a simple misunderstanding. Mike Morgan apparently has either stolen his money or is deliberately not communicating. There seems to be no effort on Mike's part to resolve this, until he was called out publicly on the forum.

I'm glad the OP is shouting, so no one else will get ripped off. Seems very appropriate to me.

Lots of scams begin with the first customers getting very good service. They spread good word of mouth. The scammer's customer base grows, more revenue come in and then he disappears.

[Chuck Tringo]

He gave him six months while prepaying over $1000 which even though paypal found in his favor he couldnt get hte money back because it was already taken from the paypal account he sent it to....6 months is MORE than enough time to fix something like this.


I say give the guy a chance to make things right (claims he trying).......

[Greg Pavlov]

What I'm finding interesting at this point is that the OP Mark Hochstein has not replied to Mike Morgan's statement that he sent him an email. Considering that he has only made one post here I would think that he would want to follow up on it. As a matter of fact, at the time I'm writing this, he hasn't signed in to the forum at all since posting his displeasure. Sorry, it just really get's my goat when people use woodworking forums to cry and complain, but don't contribute anything else.

What is obvious now is that Mark is not the only person who has had problems with delays, lack of shipment and bounced checks (my bank charges me a fee for every bounced check, I suspect that others do as well). I am very glad that Mark posted here, even if he never posted here before: I had been looking for Mike over the past several weeks - I'm in western NY - and was actually going to post a request on this forum to find out if he was still in business and if anyone had been in contact with him lately. I'm not going to write Mike off, but at this point I am not going to lay out any money with him unless I'm doing an exchange with him in person or until other folks here have found him to be back in the groove he was in two years ago: he had a lot of good stock at good prices to offer then, but I wasn't in a position to take advantage of that at the time.

[Ken Porter]

I was in with Barry VaBeach for the Virginia order and had a similar experience as previous posters. I ordered in April 2007 to get the Hard Maple special and still haven't received my full order. I've emailed Mike several times in the past few weeks and haven't received a reply. I am still waiting on some 6/4 Cherry to finish a project. It's been almost 9 months, I hope he makes this right. I hate to throw in the towel and buy local because I've already paid for the lumber.

[Doug Shepard]

...6 months is MORE than enough time to fix something like this.

6 weeks is more than enough. Never bought anything from him and now never will. Mike Morgan's Lumber Take The Money and Run sounds like the WW equivalent of a Ponzi scheme. Substitute stocks, bonds, etc. for lumber and this sounds just like headline news.

[Chris Padilla]

Folks,

I think the word is out and the thread has hopefully accomplished something. Time to let it subside....