Upgrade to a Saw Stop

[Paul Ryan]

Guys,

I have a 1 year old SC Granite topped 3hp table saw that has been real nice to use. Recently over dinner my wife told me everytime she hears the saws running in the garage she worries. I explained what a saw stop is and how a new one would run in the $4000 range. She didn't seem to care what the price was. I also told her I didn't think that I could justify spending that much to make one piece of equipment safe when there are still others that can do lots of damage. I am very happy with my SC saw an love the granite top. I have lots of trouble with condensation in my shop through out the year, so that is one less piece of cast iron I have to worry about.
I just came across a 1 year old 5hp single phase Saw Stop for $3000 or best offer. It has a 52" fence. I really don't have room for that length of table. So, I would have to find smaller rails. It also includes extra brakes and blades.
I am really only in need of one more tool for my shop and that is a drill press. So I could save the money spent on the Saw Stop for the drill press.
I just am not sure what too do. My wife would be happier if we owned a SS, but it is 3k minus what I sell my saw for. What do you guys think!

[Todd Bin]

There are people on both sides of that fence. I personally own a sawstop. Not only is it the safest designed saw on the market it is also an extremely well built piece of machinery. See the video from Charles Neil where he goes into how well built it is.

I bougt mine because 1. I had the money 2. My fingers are worth more than $1000 each. 3. The table saw is the most likely piece of equipment for a woodworker to get seriously injured. The sawstop mechanism reduces the chances of amputation to a minimum. The riving knife also substantially reduces your chances of a kickback.

I have never regretted my purchase and never looked back. I have never had the breaking mechanism fire. Always be careful. Just because I have seatbelts and an airbag doen't mean I can drive like a maniac.

Todd

[Scott Wigginton]

Is there literally no space to put the longer table or would it just disrupt your layout or make you eliminate a tool? Worst case you swap the rails with your SC.

I'd take my wife up on that offer so long as it wouldn't put us in the red, I'm already trying to cram 52" rails into a detached single car garage.

[Dave Bureau]

I agree with Todd. Piece of mind for yau and your wife. Its an awesome saw.
Dave

[Carl Babel]

Can of Boeshield T-9 for cast iron tops: ... $14.99
Cost of slightly used SS: ........................ $3000
Peace of mind for SWMBO: ..................... PRICELESS!

I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on that one. BTW, that is one sweet deal for the SS.

Disclaimer: I own and love a SS.

[Brian Frances]

Guys,

I have a 1 year old SC Granite topped 3hp table saw that has been real nice to use. Recently over dinner my wife told me everytime she hears the saws running in the garage she worries. I explained what a saw stop is and how a new one would run in the $4000 range. She didn't seem to care what the price was. I also told her I didn't think that I could justify spending that much to make one piece of equipment safe when there are still others that can do lots of damage. I am very happy with my SC saw an love the granite top. I have lots of trouble with condensation in my shop though out the year, so that is one less piece of cast iron I have to worry about.
I just came across a 1 year old 5hp single phase Saw Stop for $3000 or best offer. It has a 52" fence. I really don't have room for that length of table. So, I would have to find smaller rails. It also includes extra brakes and blades.
I am really only in need of one more tool for my shop and that is a drill press. So I could save the money spent on the Saw Stop for the drill press.
I just am not sure what too do. My wife would be happier if we owned a SS, but it is 3k minus what I sell my saw for. What do you guys think!



Paul,
I have to agree. Your wife's buyin and peace of mind is precious. If for any reason you don't want to buy the sawstop, let me know. I would love to bring that baby home here. Serious!

[Dave Verstraete]

Paul
Like you, I had a perfectly good saw (PM66). I tipped the end of my middle finger with its blade while making a dumb move. It wasn't the saw's fault. Two weeks later, while having my adult son using the saw, I turned to walk away. At that point, I realized that if I did not do everything possible to avoid a serious injury in my shop, I would regret it. I sold my PM66 to a fellow Creeker and bought a SawStop.

Honestly, the price of the SS versus what a finger could cost will justify the expense.

Both the PM66 and the SS are great saws!

[Maurice Ungaro]

Paul....can I have your wife talk to my wife?

[Rod Sheridan]

Paul are you for real?

Your wife wants you to buy a SS and you're asking the opinion of a bunch of random people on a forum????

What part of SWMBO didn't you understand???????

In all seriousness, it's the only active saw safety device that I know of.

The only item missing is a good overarm guard so that you have dust collection and the ability to keep the guard on for non through sawing operations.

Do yourself and everyone in your family a favour and buy the SS at the great price you found, and buy an overarm guard.

Your wife will thank you............Regards, Rod.

[Chip Lindley]

The fact that your wife has no faith in your prowess in the shop is cause for disdain! You are a better *woodworker* than that! Since she only *hears* and does not *see* Keep the SC and paint it black, and have some *SS* decals printed up. Spend $3000 on new and different shop tools you have drooled over for a long period of time now. She has her peace-of-mind, and you have your NEW STUFF! Everybody is Happy!! I'm SoooooooBaaaaad!!!

[Bob Aquino]

As long as the finances allow, get it. You will always be able to get more equipment down the road, but if she's nervous, this will go a long way to making her feel better about what you do. The older I get, the more I realize that giving the missus what she wants makes everybody happier in the long run.

[Paul Ryan]

As far as space goes for a saw with 52" rails it will disrupt the whole layout of my shop. I have a fairly large building 30x40 but in that building there are 2 motorcycles, 1 garden tiller, an very large ATV, a full sized extended cab pickup, a minivan, a toyota camry, a large mechanics tool box 5"x30"x6', a work bench, and my assorted wood tools. I have a seperate room in the basement of my house for glue-ups and finishing. I have really never minded haveing the shorter table on my saw. For the few times I break down plywood, I use a circular saw. The large fence doesn't really apeal to me that much. Do get me wrong if I have the space, I would use it, but I dont really have the space. I spoke to a saw stop dealer about buying shorter rails. I was told I have to buy the rails and the fence, I cannot get just the rails, it is a $400 package. He told me to cut the rails to what ever length I like. I hate to do that too, because if I ever win the lottery, I will build a seperate wood shop.

But as far as the saw goes I am having a really hard time with pulling the trigger on the saw. By no means will it but us into the red. But I am self employed and up to this point it looks like my income will be down about 40% this year if things keep up the way they are. My wife is the bread winner and her job is very secure. But what the future holds for my work is unsure.

Rod, I am for real. I have just been blessed with a wonderful women by my side. When we bought the 1st motorcylce about 7 years ago. I just mentioned bying a bike. And imediatly she said, "I always thought it would be fun for us to ride around on a bike, you should by one." I was kind of take back by that. And then to top it off she said lets get a Harley. She used to love riding around. But since we had our 1st child 17 months ago, I am usually by my self which is fine to me.

[Rod Sheridan]

The fact that your wife has no faith in your prowess in the shop is cause for disdain! You are a better *woodworker* than that! Since she only *hears* and does not *see* Keep the SC and paint it black, and have some *SS* decals printed up. Spend $3000 on new and different shop tools you have drooled over for a long period of time now. She has her peace-of-mind, and you have your NEW STUFF! Everybody is Happy!! I'm SoooooooBaaaaad!!!


And so in trouble when his wife asks for a hot dog demo on your painted SC saw.

Chip, you must live somewhere warm, cause there's no way I'd sleep in the dog house over trying to fool my wife on a SS purchase!...LOL

[Mike Goetzke]

You are really lucky to have a wife that values your health for the purchase of a $4000 SS and have used machine locally. Buy the $3000 SS (or even bargain a little) then use the $1000 (or less) to get a DP.


Mike

[Jesse Espe]

You are really lucky to have a wife that values your health for the purchase of a $4000 SS and have used machine locally. Buy the $3000 SS (or even bargain a little) then use the $1000 (or less) to get a DP.


Mike

I assume that you won't keep both saws. It seems to me that this SS, if you purchase it and sell the other, will cost you in the neighborhood of ~$2K - unless my math is all jacked up...

Just trying to add fuel to the fire,
Jesse

[chris dub]

I don't know if you do this for a living, but if not and you have gotten by without the drillpress for this long, then you will probably be ok without for a little while longer. A drill press will cost in the low to mid hundreds. And you will rpobably be able to find a good deal in low hunderds if patient. If you both agree that you can afford the SS. And you can get one well under retail you will be better served in the long run.

If you would be puttig off other needs for your household it would be a different story. But I would bet peace of mind in your household is worth waiting on the DP for a little while longer.

[Tom Godley]

Obviously no one other than you can make the determination regarding safety - but on price alone it is a good deal.

The table saw is not something that I use everyday or even weekly for that matter. When I went looking I was surprised at the cost of the Sawstop when I figured all that was needed plus the shipping - it was almost 5k to my house. For another 1K I was in the sliding table territory!

As someone who deals with horrific industrial and other associated traumas every day - I just wish people would stay away from chain saws, hand held circular saws and cheap ladders.

OH ..... if I was your wife you would have plenty of room in the garage for the saw -- because the ATV would be gone :) -- Now they are dangerous!!!

Don't get me started about safe cars :)

[Don Bullock]

Guys,

... Recently over dinner my wife told me everytime she hears the saws running in the garage she worries. I explained what a saw stop is and how a new one would run in the $4000 range. She didn't seem to care what the price was. ...

Congratulations! As I've stated here many times now, after the LOML saw the SawStop videos on the computer I was told to buy one. It is by far the best purchase for my shop to date. Having it in the center of my tools is a constant reminder that I need to work safely on all my tools. In addition it's a fantastic saw.

You could most likely sell your SC table saw for a good price and use the money for your drill press. It should sell for a good price.

[Paul Ryan]

Tom,

In defense of the ATV it is a 2005 that we bought new. And as of today it has 251 miles on it. It is only used for plowing snow, draging deer out of the woods, and moving trailers around the yard. I do not drive it for recreation, it is strictly a tool. The only reason it was bough new is because I got a heck of a deal on it as well.

When I started this thread I wasn't convinced that $3000 was that good of a deal. I guess I have been convinced that it is a great deal.

[Tom Grant]

I bought a Saw Stop last year. It was more money then I had intended on spending on a table saw, but LOML takes safety very seriously. She lost half of a toe to a lawnmower as a kid. :eek:
We decided that if I ever did have a serious accident that the guilt of not choosing the Saw Stop might be as life changing as the amputation itself.:(

[Brian Peters]

Go with the sawstop, put off the drill press. If you have money for the saw it will be easier to get a few hundred together later (than a few thousand that you possibly have now to spend). While you're only making one machine safe IMO it's the machine you will most likely get hurt on. It's not a question of how its a question of when because eventually you will make the mistake as we all do, some get lucky and feel the heat of the blade just graze their fingers some lose a few. Everyone says it will never happen they are too cautious and safe but I would say 75% of the serious woodworkers and commercial shops I have seen do not use blade guards (i'm guilty neither do I).

Sawstop, if you have the cash there is no excuse!

[Barry Vabeach]

Paul, have you considered the contractor version of the SS? I don't know the true price, with extras and shipping, but guess it would be in the neighborhood of $2,000. I know it isn't a cabinet saw, but it has gotten pretty good reviews. It is very hard to put a price on safety - after an accident you would gladly spend $5,000 to avoid the trip to the hospital - on the other hand, you could spend that $5,000 and then get hurt by your jointer, planer, bandsaw etc. I also have some questions about the statistics that the tablesaw is the most dangerous - I mean I know it is plenty dangerous if you include kickback and cutting fingers, but I wonder whether the statistics about TS injuries are weighted by experience of user and number of TS. When they say that TS are the leading cause of injuries, have they factored in how many guys or girls buy a TS as their first big tool, and maybe don't get a jointer or bandsaw for a number of years, if ever, and how regularly contractors use TS out in the field by inexperienced crews, yet very few of them use bandsaws, jointers, etc. I'd like to see a stat that says of 1,000 people who have a TS, jointer, bandsaw and __ and have been woodworking more than 2 years, __% get injured by the TS, but that may be hard to do. I have been struggling with your question for a few months now ( I have a benchtop with a true riving knive ) but I bought a 17" bandsaw a while ago and found I am using my table saw less and less. SS doesn't make a bandsaw, though they are working on it I hear. BTW, kudos to your wife for her safety concerns and willing to put her $ where her mouth is. Barry

[Scott Rollins]

A friend of mine lost half his hand to a tablesaw. I bought my sawstop one month later, my wife insisted. It is a great saw and it is worth every penny. I have no regrets.

[Jacob Griffith]

I'm lucky enough to have a SS at the high school shop that I teach in and love it. Well built and one more safety layer. If I ever get a chance to upgrade from my Powermatic 64 contractors saw at home, I will only consider a SS.

[Ken Pywell]

Being self employed, would injuring your hand cause you to lose time for work? If it brings a little peace of mind to your wife and keeps you working, seems like a win-win situation. And why not buy the saw, sell your other one and use that money for the dp if money isn't the issue?
Any reason you couldn't cut the rails, hang onto them, then weld them back on when the time is right for a bigger table?

[Frank Stolten]

Paul, I sent you a PM.

[Carl Babel]

I like that suggestion of cutting down the rails (and not spending an extra $400 now). Besides, if you ever do win the lottery, an extra $400 for the longer rails probably won't break the bank.

Good luck with your decision, which ever way you go.

[John Stan]

I used to use my father's old contractors saw. It worked fine. One evening arond we were talking about tools and I told him about the Saw Stop and showed him the demo online. He came over the next morning to tell me that he was buying my the saw stop for me. We drove to Woodcraft and bought one that morning. One the way he said that if I hurt myself on his saw and he knew that he could have bought a saw that might prevent injury, he would be beside himself. I tell you this because, you would not be ther first person to give up a perfectly good saw for a saw stop. That said, I have found the saw to be an outstanding tool that makes me smile each time I use it. I have the 52 inch rails and love them. His contractor's saw has not been used since.

[Brian Penning]

I used to use my father's old contractors saw. It worked fine. One evening arond we were talking about tools and I told him about the Saw Stop and showed him the demo online. He came over the next morning to tell me that he was buying my the saw stop for me. We drove to Woodcraft and bought one that morning. One the way he said that if I hurt myself on his saw and he knew that he could have bought a saw that might prevent injury, he would be beside himself. I tell you this because, you would not be ther first person to give up a perfectly good saw for a saw stop. That said, I have found the saw to be an outstanding tool that makes me smile each time I use it. I have the 52 inch rails and love them. His contractor's saw has not been used since.


To me it's a no brainer to get the SS.
Simply cut the rails.

[Carlos Alden]

As far as space goes for a saw with 52" rails it will disrupt the whole layout of my shop. I have a fairly large building 30x40 but in that building there are 2 motorcycles, 1 garden tiller, an very large ATV, a full sized extended cab pickup, a minivan, a toyota camry, a large mechanics tool box 5"x30"x6', a work bench, and my assorted wood tools.......

I have just been blessed with a wonderful women by my side.

Paul:

I am with the other opinions that you ought to buy the SawStop. A lot of good logic in that idea, not the least of which is the symbolic move of letting your wife support what you do, and showing her that you know she values your safety. Better than gold.

But I'm also wondering what you're doing keeping vehicles in your shop/garage. I didn't know that was allowed. Heck, I don't think they'll let you post on Sawmill Creek if you keep those big smelly machines in the same room as cast iron tools, all sleek and gleaming, just waiting to slice up some air-dried walnut...

Carlos

[Scott Wigginton]

As far as space goes for a saw with 52" rails it will disrupt the whole layout of my shop. I have a fairly large building 30x40 but in that building there are 2 motorcycles, 1 garden tiller, an very large ATV, a full sized extended cab pickup, a minivan, a toyota camry, a large mechanics tool box 5"x30"x6', a work bench, and my assorted wood tools. ... The large fence doesn't really apeal to me that much.



I understand the space issue, I had to put up a 21' x 28' carport help with my tractors and riding mower, and my implements are still uncovered.

If you can't move anything and don't want to mess with swapping the rail/fence with your SC then I'd say get it and cut 'em down. But think for a bit before determining the final length. Maybe you can get away with 36" to the right, maybe even 42".

If there was a SS at that price in my area I would already have gloat pics loaded :D

And nice catch on the wife, I'll make sure to retell the story to LOML :rolleyes: (tho she's more prone to tell me to sell other tools to pay for it)

[Leo Zick]

this thread is awesome... an excuse to justify spending the money..

see honey, look, i was hesitant and didnt think it was necessary, but all these people really convinced me!! :D

[Paul Ryan]

I think it is safe to say, I will not have the sawstop in my shop by this weekend. After reading about the 10th post telling me I am a fool if I dont go buy the sawstop. I called up the closed down school that is selling the saw and left a message. Well is has been about 3 days since and still no return phone call. I am getting a little worried that some one else, hopefully a fellow creeker, got in on this deal instead of me. I will keep you posted. But is doesn't look good.

As a side note, I am self employed as I have stated before. Last year I put on about 50k miles on my car. I am a ex mechanic and now do a type of consulting work for service shops and dealerships. I have always been a domestic car person. Mostly chryslers, that is what I know best. This past, about a year ago I was in need of a more attractive car for travel. I took the advise of a bunch of friends and bought a Toyota. The reason was because of there long term reliability. I can safely saw that is a bunch of HOG WASH! I have owned this camry for about a year put 50k on it. It now has 119k and the motor is shot. It has a lower end rod knock. It was a one owner car by a older couple that traded it in for a new model. I thought great I wont have to do anything for a long time. The imports that are used run about 4-5 thousand more than a comparable domestic. So I spent more money on this car for reliability and I got a unreliable piece of toyota crap. Anyhow you can see I am real happy.

So, even if I do get a return phone call from the school. The $$ for a nice beautiful sawstop is goning to be spent on a motor for this beloved camry I wish I would have never bought.

[Leo Zick]

heading off topic, but its odd that the camry is knocking. it tends to happen with that motor, but most times, its just because oil levels dipped too low. im sure i dont have to tell a seasoned mechanic about that, though! why buy a new motor? if you are a mech, just open it up, clean the head, and throw a new CR and bearings on it.

[Paul Ryan]

heading off topic, but its odd that the camry is knocking. it tends to happen with that motor, but most times, its just because oil levels dipped too low. im sure i dont have to tell a seasoned mechanic about that, though! why buy a new motor? if you are a mech, just open it up, clean the head, and throw a new CR and bearings on it.

Leo,

Unfortunatly on the camry you really cant just open it up and slip another bearing in it. I was really hopeing to do that, bearings come in halves for 6.50 ea. I was hoping 13 bucks for bearings, a tube of silcon(that is what the oil pan is sealed with), and a couple of exhaust gaskets and away I go hopefully with the problem fixed. The camrys and most newer engines use what is called a bed plate. It is a whole aluminum plate that supports the bottom of the crank. Well that must be removed to acess the bearings. Then you have things like balance shafts that are in the way. To get them out the front cover with the timing chain and asoc. part need to be removed. And since it is #4 piston that is making the noise you have to remove all of that just to access the rod bearings. So to make a long story short you have to remove the engine to do it. Well to top it off the engine and trans must come out together, you can do the trans by itself, but for the motor everything comes out. So now if I have the motor out do I try to fix this one, and possibly have to put a motor in sooner than latter. Or, do I just replace it now and be done. This is the delema.
If toyotas are supposed to be so great why do I by a used motor with about 75k on it and stick that in. But the used motor is $1800. But other people have having much worse things happening to them with the economy the way it is. The power company could shut my heat off, and I could freeze to death. Such as the case in MI.

[Leo Zick]

ive rebuilt hondas in the past (pleasure not necessity), the bedplates (AKA crank girdles) and everything else isnt an issue.. yes, the easiest way is to remove the motor, but, may as well clean up the head while its apart. :D

[Bill White]

Ya got a Harley and you're worried about cuttin off a finger? I sold the last of a long line of my Ducatis when I finally realized just how old and brittle I had gotten. Seems like there is more inherent danger lurking in the garage than that from the SCTS.:eek:

[Chris Padilla]

Let me put it to you this way: If the SawStop didn't have its fabulous safety mechanism (non finger eating), I will still drool over it and buy it in a heartbeat. It is that good a saw from my experience (I don't have one but have used one).

If you want, keep looking out for them. I found one a little bit upstate from me for $1500 (3 HP, 4 years old). I also found one locally of pretty much the same specs for the one you found. He had it listed on CL for $3.3k and eBay (hedging his bets, I guess) and it sold on eBay for $3075.

Patience might net you a cheaper SS....

[Keith Christopher]

Wanna see what you get for 4000 ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&feature=related



This time he uses his finger and not a hotdog. Watch to the end.


I don't own one, but I want one.

[Bruce Page]

Paul, I’m not sure if you want to be talked into or out of the Saw Stop but I’ll give my 2¢. The SS is a very nice saw and if it were around when I bought my Unisaw I would have given it serious consideration. That said, I’m not going to sell my Uni any time soon. Many tens of thousands have used a conventional tablesaw their whole lives without incident. My feelings are if you use good shop practices along with good judgment you should have nothing to worry about.
So my vote is to keep the SC and upgrade somewhere else in the shop –and tell your wife that she has nothing to be worried about.

Now if you just want a shinny new TS, go for it!

[Vic Damone]

Ya got a Harley and you're worried about cuttin off a finger? I sold the last of a long line of my Ducatis when I finally realized just how old and brittle I had gotten. Seems like there is more inherent danger lurking in the garage than that from the SCTS.:eek:

Amen Brother! I owned a big chunk of that american steel on two wheels for less than two months. Aside from the lifestyle I just don't get it, those things are dangerous.

After selling that 74 in the spring of 1981 I ended up touring six weeks that summer on a sweet GS1100.

Being space challenged myself I'm waiting for the smaller SS.

[John Sanford]

My wife would be happier if we owned a SS,
Nuff said. A little red from rust is a fair trade to avoid a lot of red from angry wife or flying fingers....

[Paul Ryan]

Guys,

I appriciate all of the "go for its". But I waited too long. I got the call late last night that the saw had indeed been sold to someone else. Again, I hope it was a fellow creeker. Look for a future gloat by someone. Anyhow, my wife isn't too upset considering the unexpected expenses, "Stinkin Camry". I will be on the look out once I have paid uncle sam the thousands he wants for taxes, and after this wonderful Camry is repaired. I will never again buy a Japanese car. I don't care how reliable they are supposed to be it can still happen and apparently is does. Thanks again guys.

[Chip Lindley]

Im glad you didn't take my shoddy advice and paint the SC *black*! Seeing it in the shop everyday might make you commit *mayhem*--Just what you are trying to Avoid!

Good Deals go FAST on CL! This thread has been going on since the 26th! It is now the 31st! Hmmmm...You gotta go with your OWN GUT sometimes, instead of reading these postings!

Meanwhile, remember that table saw safety is a combination of *knowing the machine* and *good habits*! In 35 years I have NOT come close to nicking a finger on the TS, perhaps, because I had utmost respect for that spinning blade! But, I HAVE nicked a finger at the router table and with a SkilSaw!! NOW I have utmost respect for those also!!

[Don Bullock]

...
Good Deals go FAST on CL! This thread has been going on since the 26th! It is now the 31st! Hmmmm...You gotta go with your OWN GUT sometimes, instead of reading these postings! ...

Chip has some good advice about CL listings, and this would especially be true of something new like a SawStop.

His best advice is:


Meanwhile, remember that table saw safety is a combination of *knowing the machine* and *good habits*!

This is true of all the tools in the shop. God luck.

[Greg Pavlov]

Chip has some good advice about CL listings, and this would especially be true of something new like a SawStop.
His best advice is:
This is true of all the tools in the shop. God luck.

... and this one's been listed for a while (tho it started at $3500)