120 watt question

[Jeff Gilchrist]

I have been away for some time due to a move last spring but am back now and looking to buy a laser.

Just to recap my experiences with laser engraving; My current day job is working with two Epilog Helix 45w machines and two RMI 15w fiber lasers marking stuff for the government. I have been doing this for the last two years for another company.

I am also retired from the Army so I have a couple sources of income, this will start out as a hobby and we'll see where it goes from there.

My question for the very experienced and helpful masses here at the creek is this:

With a 120 watt, single tube/ single head, Epilog EX32 will I be able to engrave stainless without a bonding agent such as cermark?

Thank you all for this very informed and helpful community that you have built.

[James Stokes]

Yes you will. Not real fast but you can. I have a 100 watt with the same tube as the 120 and I can do it at 10% speed.
If I was going to buy a new laser, I would buy the 50watt fibermark. For marking metals you would be much happier.

[Mark Winlund]

Just the opposite. I have a ULS 120 watt (measured at 140 watts) and it won't do it.

Mark

[Dan Hintz]

I believe Rodney was able to mark stainless with a 1.5" lens, but he had to go incredibly slow... like <0.5%, though I don't remember how powerful the laser was (knowing Rodney, he has some power at his disposal). In essence, you may get away with it, but it will be so unbelievably slow as to not be a money-maker.

[James Stokes]

Mark, I am suprised that you can not do it with your laser. Mine has less power but it will do it. I do not though, I use ceramark it is much faster.
I am now seriously considering buying Epilogs 50 watt fiber laser for marking metals.

[James Stokes]

Rodney's lasers are 35 watt.

[Doug Griffith]

Is it possible that different types of stainless steels etch differently? I'm curious.

[Richard Rumancik]

Jeff, I suggest you go to the Synrad site at
http://www.synrad.com/

They have an applications database. In the search window enter <stainless>. You will find numerous examples where they laser-marked stainless steel. You can also search on process (marking).

A few observations: usually Synrad uses marking heads with galvos to do marking, not a raster engraver. But it should give you and idea of what a 120 watt will do. My impression is that you should be able to make a mark with 120 watts, but it might not be a good decorative mark. By this I mean that the color and contrast might be unacceptable for decorative marking. Most people probably want a uniform, dense, high-contrast black mark, not a goldish or brownish mark. They have some marks that may be "decorative" but its hard to see the quality in the photo. A lot of stainless marking looks a little "washed out" in my opinion. The mark is not dense enough and not opaque. Cermark requires more steps but does provide a black high-contrast mark.

The other problem with direct marking is the grade of stainless. If you are marking materials for manufacturers you may get various grades. One might work well and another might not. With promo products you usually will not know what grade you will get.

[Peck Sidara]

Jeff,

My experience with your enquiry are as follows:

The only type of mark you'll be able to get (if any) is an annealed mark. Changing the surface color only to blues/purples and blacks.

It's going to require all the power and very slow speeds <4%. Multiple passes may help the cause.

The mark will be inconsistent in color if the logo is relatively large or has alot of black area.

Different grades of stainless will give different results.

Honestly I don't recommend the application primarily due to the above factors. You're better off using CerMark or using a different wavelength laser like our FiberMark.

[Jeff Gilchrist]

Thanks to all that replied. I was hoping that the higher wattage would do the trick but it looks like it will be no comparison to the lower wattage fiber laser.

It is nice to be able to mark metals without bonding agents but I don't have 40k to spend on a dedicated machine so cermark it is.

Thanks again!

[Roy Brewer]

With a 120 watt, single tube/ single head, Epilog EX32 will I be able to engrave stainless without a bonding agent such as cermark?
Jeff,

Are you just "thinking outloud" or do you have a real application in mind? I agree with James that a relatively consistent, but low contrast, mark can be made without the CerMark/TherMark step. And, if metal marking is all you want to do, Epilog's FiberMark or RMI's YVO4 lasers would be a good consideration. But if you are going to build a business around a laser engraver, the CO2 is so much more versatile. Even with the extra CerMark step, I find I can mark metal in 1/3 the time even with a mid range laser tube.

James, by the way, is doing this w/o the Radiance Optics(TM) which makes for a better mark and is included in all mid/high range Epilogs.

[Jeff Gilchrist]

Jeff,

Are you just "thinking outloud" or do you have a real application in mind? I agree with James that a relatively consistent, but low contrast, mark can be made without the CerMark/TherMark step. And, if metal marking is all you want to do, Epilog's FiberMark or RMI's YVO4 lasers would be a good consideration. But if you are going to build a business around a laser engraver, the CO2 is so much more versatile. Even with the extra CerMark step, I find I can mark metal in 1/3 the time even with a mid range laser tube.

James, by the way, is doing this w/o the Radiance Optics(TM) which makes for a better mark and is included in all mid/high range Epilogs.
Roy, pretty much just thinking out loud. I have an opportunity to purchase the higher wattage CO2, just trying to justify the extra cost. I don't know what a 120 watter would do that a 45 watter won't and would it be worth the extra cost. I guess that really should have been the original question.

[Roy Brewer]

I don't know what a 120 watter would do that a 45 watter won't and would it be worth the extra cost.Jeff,
You'll be surprised by my response and it will be met with strong, opposite opinions of others in our community. But, there is very little a 120watt system will do that a 45watt can't do; it just does it in 1/3 the time. If you don't know you need the extra wattage then don't buy it. The higher the wattage the higher the replacement cost will be every four years (or so).

If you buy low wattage and learn that you need more, you can upgrade at a very reasonable cost. If you buy too big ... (sorry, it doesn't work the other way).

[Frank Corker]

I have a 45 watt. Does everything I need it to do. Yes, I would like higher power and the max for a helix is 75, it would be nice because I work a lot with acrylic. The 75 would slice through like butter with a smoother finish and do it quicker but you will be paying for those type of benefits only. I think you should look at what it is that you are going to be doing mainly before making your decision, Roy is right regarding upgrading it can be done, but to upgrade a 45 watt Epilog to a 75 watt is a little bit more involved than changing a tube unit, the power supply and motherboard need to be replaced. If I'd had the money when I first bought my machine, I would have gone for more power.

[Mike Null]

I started with a 25 watt machine which worked well for me for 7 years when I purchased a 45 watt machine. Most of my business is raster engraving or cutting thin plastics so the 45 nearly doubled my output but I could get by with less. I don't see a favorable return on investment with a machine of higher power than 45w.

[James Stokes]

Well I do have a 100 watt and I can not imagine going down in power. It does work so much quicker. I also have a 35 watt and almost never use it.
I had a big job not long ago for a large order of signs. With the 100 watt They took around 5 minutes each, With the 35 watt they took about 18 minutes each. Big differance
But I am not really comparing apples to apples. The 35 watt rasters completely across the sign where as the 100 watt only engraves where it needs to. So that really makes a big differance in time.
If I was in the market for a nother co2 laser, I still think I would go with the higher power. I have 2 differant people trying to sell me their lasers. One is a 25 watt, I could probably get it for around $4500 and the other is a 35 watt. I could probably get it for around $6000. I have the money to buy them both. But I do not have the buisness to justify 4 lasers.
On the other hand I am seriously considering Epilogs 50 watt Fibermark for marking metals. I get a lot of calls to mark aluminum, I can do it using the lmm14 but it is a hit and miss process. I am never quite sure if it will work or not. I would like to do it and know with out a doubt it will work the first time every time.