Time for a Tablesaw upgrade... Jet Xacta Deluxe??

[Brian Frances]

Hi Guys,
I am in the market for a new Table saw since. I visited the showroom today and compared a few saws.
1) Steel City 35601 --$900
2) PM 2000 3HP riving knife that raises and lowers with the blade..$2700 3HP
3) Sawstop $4000 3 HP
4)Jet Deluxe xacta 3HP riving knife that raises and lowers with the blade..$2100

1) The trunnions in the Steel City just weren't beefy enough and reminds me of my current Contractor's saw. Definitly not up to snuff with the other 3.
The other 3 seem very similar but the Sawstop's lure is obvious. For $2000 more, I'm going to continue using my push stick and the blade guard.

2) I love both the new Jet and the PM. Both beautiful saws with lots of features. very similar indeed.

My question is, does anyone have the new Jet Deluxe with the riving knife that raises and lowers with the blade? Is there another manufacturer that I could also consider with this feature?

Thanks,
Brian

[Jim Becker]

Fred Voorhees acquired the Jet Xacta-Deluxe when they were first released. It's a sweet machine, not unlike the Jet Xacta I owned before buying my slider, but with some great new features like the true riving knife.

BTW, Welcome to the 'Creek!

[Jay Yoder]

Brian, I have the jet deluxe and love it! Rock solid and built well. I have the 5hp model and it is a dream. surprising thing for me was the height, which was about 3" lower overall compared to my previous hybrid. For the money I could not beat it. It came well packaged and the table top was dead on right out of the box. Best $ i have spent in the shop!

[Jim Kountz]

I have the same Jet Jim B mentioned, no riving knife but one heck of a nice saw. Smooth and powerful w/large handwheels and a nice fit and finish. I think Grizzly is now offering a 10" saw w/riving knife. I have to stay away from their catalog, mamas orders!! LOL

[Dave Lehnert]

I own an older model JET and like it a lot. I do miss a riving knife as I have used a Shopsmith for years and it had one.

This is Grizzly offering in a like saw. Looks to be a good deal at just under $1,500 shipped to your door.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Long-Rails-Riving-Knife/G0691

http://www.grizzly.com/images/pics/jpeg500/g/g0691.jpg

[Jamie Buxton]

..... the riving knife that raises and lowers with the blade? Is there another manufacturer that I could also consider with this feature?


You should also check out the new Unisaw. It has a true riving knife. Delta announced the saw a few months ago. I'm not sure if you can buy it quite yet. But it does look to be a worthy competitor to those saws you mention.

[Jim O'Dell]

And the picture Dave showed shows the guard with anti-kickback pawls installed. It also comes with a riving knife that is a true riving knife. First left tilt saw I've seen with the dust port on the right (and correct :D) side of the saw. Less turns with the ducting to hook it up to your overhead ducting, that is if you have overhead ducting. Jim.

[John Thompson]

"The trunnions in the Steel City just weren't beefy enough and reminds me of my current Contractor's saw. Definitly not up to snuff with the other 3".

The 35601 is now a discontinued model and has been replaced. It has a 1.75 HP motor and is a hybrid so it should not be "up to snuff" with the other 3 as you should be able to tell from price alone. You can't compare a light-weight to a heavy-weight. If you want to see some trunnions larger than two of those and just as large as the Sawstop... have a look at a Steel City 35626 5 HP which I have.

With that said the new Jet is a pretty good TS from what I saw at IWF but that Grizzly mentioned is also.

Sarge..

[Brian Frances]

Guys,
I must say that we have a great group of helpful guys and your help is appreciated.

Dave,
I had my eyes set on the saw you show and I must say it is a beautiful saw. Seems also that this saw is identical to the Laguna Platinum Lt tilt saw! Does your riving knife raise and lower with the saw? How is the dust collection?

While looking at the Jet I noticed that the blade is enclosed within the trunnion and leads directly to the dust collector- one nifty feature! The pawls are quick disconnect & the riving knife can be removed without tools and the table is 29" deep as opposed to 27". To me that extra 2" on the back end seems to be advantageous... any thoughts?

[Dave Lehnert]

Guys,
I must say that we have a great group of helpful guys and your help is appreciated.

Dave,
I had my eyes set on the saw you show and I must say it is a beautiful saw. Seems also that this saw is identical to the Laguna Platinum Lt tilt saw! Does your riving knife raise and lower with the saw? How is the dust collection?

While looking at the Jet I noticed that the blade is enclosed within the trunnion and leads directly to the dust collector- one nifty feature! The pawls are quick disconnect & the riving knife can be removed without tools and the table is 29" deep as opposed to 27". To me that extra 2" on the back end seems to be advantageous... any thoughts?

My JET is about 6 or 8 years old so it does not have the riving knife or the new dust collection. Two things that I wish I had.
My Shopsmith has a riving knife type device but works different. The blade and knife stay in place. The table moves up and down. When I purchased the JET saw that was the first thing I could not figure out why manufactures did not have such a device.
That two extra inches on the table will come in handy for sure. Nothing wrong with that.

As a side not. Two other things I miss on my stand alone tools that the shopsmith has is variable speed on everything. (jointer, sander,bandsaw etc..) also a feather board knife guard on the Jointer.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/images/Jointer.jpghttp://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/images/Featherboard.jpg

[Tim Phoenix]

I LOVE my Jet Deluxe Xacta 3HP.

If money was no object, I would own a Saw Stop of course.

Money's an object though. :o

[Tom Veatch]

I have the older model 3HP Jet Xacta Left Tilt predecessor of the Deluxe. If I had it to do over, based on my experience with this saw, I wouldn't hesitate a minute to get the Deluxe.

[Steve Sawyer]

I bought a 3hp Deluxe Xacta last spring. When comparing it to the PM2000, I must say that it's a good value, giving you a good percentage of the features at a more manageable price. Some of the components look to be identical (blade guard and fence in particular).

I have not had a moment's remorse. The LOML wanted me to get a SS, but I just couldn't bring myself to put us that much in the hole. The riving knife together with the overarm blade guard I installed (a Delta Uni-Guard) really provide a very safe working environment. I bought the optional low-profile riving knives (for std. and thin-kerf blades) to work with the overarm guard.

Assembly was very easy, the top after alignment was flat to about .004". The only hard part was getting it into the basement without crushing my son who was on the bottom of the refrigerator dolly as we took it down the stairs :D.

Dust collection with the dust shroud has been very good. Smooth, relatively quiet, has never shown any tendency to bog down even when cutting 2" thick hard maple. I'm not sure the extra 2" of table depth is really much of a selling point, as you're going to want to fit an outfeed table at some point.

I haven't found any desire to replace the rock-solid fence, though I've been tempted to install some T-Track along the top.

After about 9 months in my shop, it's still a joy to use.

[Chad Harrison]

Another positive vote for the Xacta Deluxe. I did my typical overzealous internet research and finally decided on the Jet over the PM2000 and Sawstop (unfortunately, I had to prioritize money over fingers). The only thing I may regret is not waiting to at least see the new Unisaw - it looks to have some innovative design features.

The saw has seen lots of use in the last 6 months and not a negative comment. This after I witnessed the delivery guys drop it on its side trying to bring it down a ramp off the truck (I did have to re-tune a bit after that).

Good dust collection, good power, clean cuts (Freud Fusion blade), smooth operation. I did replace the fence with an Incra system, but the Xactafence seemed to be adequate.

Good luck with your decision!

[Brian Frances]

Another positive vote for the Xacta Deluxe. I did my typical overzealous internet research and finally decided on the Jet over the PM2000 and Sawstop (unfortunately, I had to prioritize money over fingers). The only thing I may regret is not waiting to at least see the new Unisaw - it looks to have some innovative design features.

The saw has seen lots of use in the last 6 months and not a negative comment. This after I witnessed the delivery guys drop it on its side trying to bring it down a ramp off the truck (I did have to re-tune a bit after that).

Good dust collection, good power, clean cuts (Freud Fusion blade), smooth operation. I did replace the fence with an Incra system, but the Xactafence seemed to be adequate.

Good luck with your decision!

Chad,
Why did you replace the xactaII fence for Incra? Do you notice a difference in repeatability or accuracy? The reason I asked is that I am considering this saw and selling my contractor saw with the incra fence. I have the LS positioner with the 92" inch rails shabang? Now that you have tried both, what are the pros and cons?

[Steve Sawyer]

Why did you replace the xactaII fence for Incra?

I'll let Chad speak to his thinking, but for myself, the big plus for any Incra product is repeatability (and I have several Incra products and love 'em).

But I opted to install a Wixey digital fence readout, and find that this gives me all the repeatability I'll ever need.

[Brian Frances]

I'll let Chad speak to his thinking, but for myself, the big plus for any Incra product is repeatability (and I have several Incra products and love 'em).

But I opted to install a Wixey digital fence readout, and find that this gives me all the repeatability I'll ever need.


How does the Xacta II fence perform in terms of repeatability? If I move the fence to the 20" position and 2 days later move it to the 20" using the same blade, will the cut be identical? I can do that now on my LS system but I wonder if I upgrade to the Xacta II fence if I would loose this capability. Any comment here?

[John Hedges]

How does the Xacta II fence perform in terms of repeatability? If I move the fence to the 20" position and 2 days later move it to the 20" using the same blade, will the cut be identical? I can do that now on my LS system but I wonder if I upgrade to the Xacta II fence if I would loose this capability. Any comment here?

The key is the Wixey. Since I put one on my planer and tablesaw, I rarely cut extra parts anymore because it is so easy to cut and EXACT replacements if I screw something up. I am using a PM2000 and the Wixey will give any good fence exact repeatability.

[Steve Sawyer]

How does the Xacta II fence perform in terms of repeatability? If I move the fence to the 20" position and 2 days later move it to the 20" using the same blade, will the cut be identical? I can do that now on my LS system but I wonder if I upgrade to the Xacta II fence if I would loose this capability. Any comment here?

I find the Xacta fence to be very accurate, once the cursor is aligned. But with any visual system you have the natural variability introduced by the width of the markings on the scale, the width of the line on the cursor, and the distance between the line on the cursor and the scale which introduces parallax errors. The end result is that it's pretty difficult to reposition the fence - no matter how good it is - at EXACTLY the same spot again and again.

The Incra products get around this by eliminating the visual error and relying on the toothed tracks to precisely position the device only on 1/32" boundaries. Once aligned, perfect repeat cuts are all but guaranteed.

The Wixey uses extreme (within .005") accuracy so that you know that the fence (or planer head) is positioned exactly at the same spot as a previous cut. As long as you don't change to a different blade or re-tune the fence between the two cuts, they'll be identical, even if they're made a week apart.

The bottom line is that you will have greater repeatability with the Incra system, but the Xacta fence is a high-quality fence, so I'd consider adding a digital readout to regain that repeatability at a fraction of the cost. If you're selling your old saw, the Incra fence will add considerably to it's value and saleability.

Then again, you could also look at swapping the two fences, which might take a fair bit of work depending on the differences in mounting.

[Brian Frances]

I find the Xacta fence to be very accurate, once the cursor is aligned. But with any visual system you have the natural variability introduced by the width of the markings on the scale, the width of the line on the cursor, and the distance between the line on the cursor and the scale which introduces parallax errors. The end result is that it's pretty difficult to reposition the fence - no matter how good it is - at EXACTLY the same spot again and again.

The Incra products get around this by eliminating the visual error and relying on the toothed tracks to precisely position the device only on 1/32" boundaries. Once aligned, perfect repeat cuts are all but guaranteed.

The Wixey uses extreme (within .005") accuracy so that you know that the fence (or planer head) is positioned exactly at the same spot as a previous cut. As long as you don't change to a different blade or re-tune the fence between the two cuts, they'll be identical, even if they're made a week apart.

The bottom line is that you will have greater repeatability with the Incra system, but the Xacta fence is a high-quality fence, so I'd consider adding a digital readout to regain that repeatability at a fraction of the cost. If you're selling your old saw, the Incra fence will add considerably to it's value and saleability.

Then again, you could also look at swapping the two fences, which might take a fair bit of work depending on the differences in mounting.


Steve,
This is great information indeed! This makes sense. often when I lock down the incra, it adjusts itself to the next screw pitch (1/32')but is always 'nuts-on'.
Any comparison comments on parallelism to the blade?
This may be obvious but it seems that there is more contact surface area of the Xacta II when compared to the Incra. If you look within the housing of the LS positioner, there seems to be about approx 6 inches of contact area compared to the Xacta II which is many times more. Do you have any thoughts here?

[Chad Harrison]

Chad,
Why did you replace the xactaII fence for Incra? Do you notice a difference in repeatability or accuracy? The reason I asked is that I am considering this saw and selling my contractor saw with the incra fence. I have the LS positioner with the 92" inch rails shabang? Now that you have tried both, what are the pros and cons?

Honestly, I planned to install the Incra from the get-go, and didn't give the Xactafence a real chance. My shop is too small to have a dedicated router table, so I built-in a router lift to the TS extension. The benefits of the Incra system for joinery made it a no-brainer for me to go with Incra 96" rail system for use on both the saw and router table.

Without a lot of use to truly judge, the Xactafence seemed to be adequate. But I don't think the repeatability and ease of use of the Incra system can be beat. Even with just the center mount engaged, the fence is very rigid,. especially at the blade - more rigid than any front-locking fence in my opinion. If you need extra stability, you can lock at both the front and rear, giving you triangulated support for the ultimate rigidity.

Since you already have the Incra, my advice is to sell the contractor with its original fence and fit the Incra to the Xacta Deluxe (save the money and just buy the 30" since you'll be trashing the fence anyway). Add the WonderFence with the Joinery System and router lift extension and you're good to go!

Best of luck.

[Steve Sawyer]

Any comparison comments on parallelism to the blade?

Like all good fences, the Xacta is fully adjustable, so you can dial it right in to achieve perfect parallelism with the miter slots (and the blade - my blade came from the factory perfectly aligned with them), as well as perfectly perpendicular to the table.


Do you have any thoughts here?

For most ripping operations, as long as the work is held securely and slides easily against the fence, I'd guess that it's a wash. However, the taller fence will make a difference when doing things like sawing raised panels or other edge operations. It also gives you a beefier mounting for any kind of jig you may require.

Another point to consider in the Incra's favor is it's ability to do double-duty as a router fence if you install a router plate in the right table board with only 30" rails. I have a small shop so had to go with the 30" fence rails, and for some routing operations, the Xacta fence can't slide far enough to the right to get the job done, and I have to go with a dedicated router fence that fits into T-slots I've installed. The Incra is made to handle this, but again I couldn't use it in my shop as I don't have the clearance for the long center bar on the Incra - the right side of the saw table is right up against the wall.

[Chris Padilla]

I'd look to the used tool market. Today, it hardly makes sense to buy a brand stinking new TS. There are plenty of folks, unfortunately, in need of cash and good buys are all around us. Craigslist is your friend!

To make searching craigslist easier, I suggest you download Snarfer (www.snarfer.com (http://www.snarfer.com)) and be sure to get the craigslist plug-in. It is an RSS reader and will do all the searching for you and will even search areas outside your local craigslist.

[Steve Sawyer]

I'd look to the used tool market. Today, it hardly makes sense to buy a brand stinking new TS.

I would agree with you 100% Chris, with one caveat.

When I made the decision to buy, I was encouraged to make safety a priority by the LOML (which didn't take much encouragement as I lost a bit of my left thumb to a TS many years ago). Thus for me a minimum requirement was a riving knife, and these are much less common on used saws than they are on new ones.

Otherwise, I would definitely have been looking for something along the lines of a good restorable old Unisaw, a PM 66 or a nice Grizz 1023.

[Chris Padilla]

I've been seeing new SawStops and PM2ks on various CLs, Steve. I believe both of those have riving knives, shrouds on the blade for dust collection, and so on.

My main point was that there are people who need cash that just bought such saws but may need to dump them now. Bad for them but can be good for you. Try out Snarfer...it will really save you a lot of time.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Sandly, doesn't seem to be a lot in my area. I'd probably jump on any SS CL listing I saw.

[Chris Padilla]

John,

Yeah, you might need to be quick with ca$h in hand. I emailed a guy north of me about a SS CL ad he placed...have yet to hear back from him so I assume it is gone. $1500 for 3 hp SS, about 4 years old....

[Steve Sawyer]

John,

Yeah, you might need to be quick with ca$h in hand. I emailed a guy north of me about a SS CL ad he placed...have yet to hear back from him so I assume it is gone. $1500 for 3 hp SS, about 4 years old....

And beware the Craig's Lister who does the "First one shows up at my door with the cash gets it" thing. Not what most consider good CL etiquette, but it's done all the time - usually on really good deals like the one you mention.

[Paul Stroik]

Steve Sawyer, I have a question for you. Why do you have a Uniguard installed on your new Jet Deluxe Xacta?

I presently have a Delta Contractors TS, 34-410. Some time back I installed the Uniguard and Unifence as the original guard and fence were inadequate IMO. I plan to sell both with or without the TS when I pull the trigger on the new Cabinet saw. And am pretty sure it will be the Jet Deluxe Xacta. Very soon I'll be taking a trip to check out the Jet first hand so am curious as to a reason to keep the Uniguard!

[Steve Sawyer]

Paul - One of the factors driving my decision to go with the Deluxe Xacta was safety. IMO the combination of an over-arm blade guard and a riving knife is the safest combination short of a SawStop. The advantage of the over-arm guard is that you very seldom ever have to operate without it. A standard table (or riving-knife) mounted guard must be removed for non-through cuts. I never intended to use the standard Xacta guard, and planned on building or buying an over-arm guard ASAP after getting it into the shop. It just happened that CPO ran a deal on reconditioned Uni-Guards not long after I got the saw.

I don't want to imply that the standard Xacta blade guard is inadequate, - it's REALLY NICE and I keep thinking about disassembling it and adapting it to the Uni-Guard, because the guard mechanism itself is even nicer than the Uni.