water borne/water based finishes

[Wolf Kiessling]

Some time ago, I read somewhere that there is a difference between water borne and water based finishes. I can't remember if I read it here, SMC, or somewhere else. I also can't remember what I read. I had always considered these to be the same but apparently I was wrong. Can someone enlighten me on this subject? Thanks.....

[Jamie Buxton]

Wolf ---
As I understand current usage, the difference is this. A water-borne finish is not redisolved by water after it is cured. Those water-cleanup varnishes at the wood stores are water-borne. A water-based finish can be redisolved by water. Kid's poster paints and artist's water-colors are two examples.

[Wolf Kiessling]

Wolf ---
As I understand current usage, the difference is this. A water-borne finish is not redisolved by water after it is cured. Those water-cleanup varnishes at the wood stores are water-borne. A water-based finish can be redisolved by water. Kid's poster paints and artist's water-colors are two examples.

That doesn't make sense to me, Jamie. I have a couple of different colors of Minwax water BASED stain plus a couple of different brands of water Based polycrylic and I also have water BORNE sanding sealer. Do you have any second thoughts about this? If anyone else has any knowledge of this, feel free to jump in. I'd really like to get this resolved in my mind (what's left of it)......

[Joseph N. Myers]

Wolf,

I'm not really into this - Watco and Briwax works for me - but I seem to remember something about water based vs. water borne. So I checked out some of my sources and of course, now really confused. There is a lot of literture available on the subject (especially Bob Flexner) which I didn't include but I hope the following will get you going in the right direction.

Regards, Joe

From Understanding Wood Finishing, Bob Flexner,

"What’s commonly called water-based finish, or water base, is really a solvent-based finish, usually acrylic or polyurethane, that is dispersed in water. Calling it water base distinguishes it from those finishes known as solvent-based finishes- shellac, lacquer, and varnish - which don’t use water. A true water-based finish would be impractical for use on household objects, since it would redissolve in water."

(Yes I had to reread the above a couple of times as it makes no sense. Reading further in the book, I think when he said that "water-based ... really solvent-based, should say acts like a solvent-based. I base this on "A solvent that evaporate slower than water, usually glycol ether, is added". So it is really water, just stuff added to it.)



From some web site (search on "water borne" + stain),
Reduced VOCs. Volatile organic compounds, or VOCs, are the materials that evaporate as a finish cures. VOCs from wood finishes, especially from solvent-borne (oil-based) ones, have been found to be significant air pollutants. Now, low-VOC finishes are available. Water-borne finishes, such as latex paint or stain, are less harmful to the atmosphere. New products have been developed to reduce the polution, although they generally do not last as long as oil-based finishes.

[Jamie Buxton]

That doesn't make sense to me, Jamie. I have a couple of different colors of Minwax water BASED stain plus a couple of different brands of water Based polycrylic and I also have water BORNE sanding sealer. Do you have any second thoughts about this? If anyone else has any knowledge of this, feel free to jump in. I'd really like to get this resolved in my mind (what's left of it)......


Wolf ---
Okay, I give up. The distinction which I made is real -- there are some paints which can be re-disolved by water. However, the examples you cite seems to use both terms interchangeably. Ah, marketing-speak!!
Jamie

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Jamie's original distinctions...that is the way it's been explained to me several times.

[Todd Burch]

I'll ditto Jamie.

My understanding is this:

For a water borne finish, what you have, as "Bob" was cited above, is a finish that would have 3 components to it:

1) water for dispersion/vehicle/medium - whatever you want to call it,

2) little bitty already cured particles of finish (varnish, poly, lacquer, etc.), and

3) "solvent" (or catalyst?) for "melting" the cured particles back together that only works (kicks in) after the water evaporates.

Now, I've been wrong before, so maybe I'm "all wet" here too.... :) But, it makes sense to me, and I try not to bog down too much in the technology of it all.

[Wolf Kiessling]

Okay, I read all this stuff twice and I'm still confused. I think I will print it all out, read it about three more times and it SHOULD sink in. Hopefully.........

BTW, thanks everyone....