Who makes the best draw bore pins?

[Eric Brown]

Who makes the best draw bore pins and why? (Sorry a little long)
Here is some information I have:
Lie-Nielsen, 1 size, Following from website: O-1 Tool Steel, Rockwell 60-62. Diameter at base of pin .440" (1.12cm) tapering to .110" (2.8mm) at the tip. Lenth overall 12". Sold in pairs. $90.00 pair.
Blue Spruce, 3 sizes, Following from an E-mail:
The Draw Bore pins are available; the website page is not working yet. I have three sizes based upon the nominal peg size you are using: 1/4, 5/16 or 3/8 inch. The pins themselves are finely machined from high strength steel and are round in cross section. The handles are available in cocobolo, African blackwood or curly maple. The pictures in the custom tools section are older versions but similar. The new ones are a little nicer.
If you would like to order any please let me know. I am hoping to get the website updated very soon. Oh, the cost is $75 per pair for cocobolo handles. Best Regards, Dave Jeske

Ray Iles, Following from “Toolsforworkingwood”:






Pair - 3/8" diameter, 7-5/8" long to bolster 13-1/2" overall, 1/8" diam. at tip. ($89.95) In Stock

Pair - 1/2" diameter, 8-3/4" long to Bolster 14-3/4" overall, 3/16" diam. at tip. ($99.95) In Stock



The best way to put together a mortise and tenon is by drawboring them. What this means is that when you drill the holes for a dowel to pin the joint together you offset the hole in the tenon towards the shoulder so that the pin has to bend a little to get the joint together and put a little tension in the joint. Any shrinkage in the stile would be taken up by the tension and the joint is incredibly strong.

The problem is test fitting it. You can of course just drive dowels into the joint but that means driving them out and replacing them every time you test fit. This is a pain and also wears the joint. The traditional solution is using drawbore pins. Drawbore pins not only let you assemble the joint but they have an eccentricity that allows you to tighten up the joint without banging down. It's a technique that is still used today to align steel beams for assembly.

A few years ago I mentioned to Ray Iles that there were no proper drawbore pins being made on the market and certainly none with the proper eccentricity. He mentioned that he would get antiques in and they would sell very quickly. He took a long look at a bunch and saw the eccentricity that I mentioned and of course he said "that explains why you don't see hammer marks on them." Most of the old ones were used by doormakers and large rigging makers but and they work for cabinetmaking (it's what I have) but smaller sizes can be much easier to handle.

The way you use them is just put them in a drawbore hole and wiggle them down. You will notice that on half a turn they seem to tighten up the joint, and on the other half they loosen. Just by turning and wiggling the pin you can get the joint to mechanically tighten up with a lot of pressure. A pin without the offset, is sometimes used but you don't get the pressure on the joint.

While real drawbore pins like these for woodworking haven't been made since around World War One. You can buy modern drawbore pins for steel work from any good supply company. These are short and meant to be turned with a large wrench but they do the same thing. What steelworkers use them for is pulling beams together into alignment so the beams can be bolted or riveted together. The important thing is that, just like our drawbore pins, you have loads of leverage from the eccentricity in the pin.

These are not an essential tool for the occasional mortiser but for anyone doing large mortises, and/or lots of mortises, these drawbore pins will enable you to test fit joints much faster, much tighter, and save a lot of time.
Sold in two sizes, the size reflected the diameter of the shaft of the pin above the taper. Typically you would be using a dowel size smaller than the pin size so that your registration happens somewhere on the tapered part of the drawbore pin. Due to the colossal leverage they exert they work better on hardwood than softwood where the holes can more easily distort. They are typically used in pairs so that you can assemble one entire side of a frame and panel when checking for fit and square.

Made in England, offset, hardened, with steel bolsters, and a beech handle.





So my question is: Who makes the best draw bore pins? The Lie-Nielsen seems to have a steeper taper than the Blue-Spruce and they both seem to have a round profile. The Ray Iles appears to be more of an oval shape and the small one is closer to the Lie-Nielsen in length/taper. Ray Iles makes the largest one.
I also read somewhere that Chris Schwartz mentioned using an alignment punch from Sears as a cheap alternative. I want the best when it comes to function. My gut tells me that the Ray Iles is.
Please enlighten me.

Eric

[Robert Rozaieski]

Honestly, I made a pair from the Companion set of punches and alignment pins sold by Sears as Chris Schwarz explained in one of his blogs. But really I almost never use them. I test fit my mortises to work out any fit problems before boring any holes for drawboring. If you test fit after drawboring and find a problem, then your drawbored holes will be in the wrong spot after you fix the fit issues and the drawbore may not pull the joint tight enough. By boring the drawbore after I know my joint fits tight, there's no need for the drawbore pins and I know that the holes are bored in the right spot for final assembly. There is no testing of the drawbored holes since all the fitting would have already been done. I simply assemble and drive the pegs. Now the makeshift drawbore pins just sit in a rack untouched.

Personally, I could find a lot better things to spend $100 on than either one of these sets.

[Mark Singer]

I don't use the pins . Just bore carefully and the dowel or tenon will do the work. You should "dry" fit the joint

[Michael Sobik]

I made my own just as Robert did. I use them all the time. You can really pull the joint up tight to check it all over, and any problems usually only result in removing a very small amount of material generally not enough to effect the postion of the holes. Where they're really handy is when you're double pegging something. You can use the pin in one side of the joint while you drive the peg into the other hole. Then remove the pin and drive the other peg.

Make up a set with the Sears alignment pins, and if you don't use them very little money lost.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'm with Bob Rozaieski on this one. As long as you fit the joint properly and use the proper offset for the hole in the tenon, the joint should pull tight with just the peg being driven into place. For small joints I use about 3/64 of an inch offset and for large joints such as the base for the workbench I built last fall I only used 1/16". I jsut can't see the need for the alignment pins.

[Randy Klein]

I made my own just as Robert did. I use them all the time. You can really pull the joint up tight to check it all over, and any problems usually only result in removing a very small amount of material generally not enough to effect the postion of the holes. Where they're really handy is when you're double pegging something. You can use the pin in one side of the joint while you drive the peg into the other hole. Then remove the pin and drive the other peg.

Make up a set with the Sears alignment pins, and if you don't use them very little money lost.

This is how I use them.

[David Keller NC]

I've a similar opinion. I have an antique pair, and did use them a bit at first when I was getting used to making the joint, but almost never do now unless it's a rare situation and I'm making a drawbored M&T joint in very hard wood - like cocobolo.

A couple of tricks made things go much faster than using drawbore pins to crush the wood fibers on the tenon and slightly enlarge the hole:

Use a dowel plate and make your own pins. Most dowel stock isn't really round, because they're not turned, and even if they were, wood shrinkage/expansion causes them to be slightly egg-shaped by the time you buy them.

Regardless of the wood you're putting together, make the pins out of a tough, stringy wood. I make mine out of a piece of white oak firewood I brought into the shop a couple of years ago. Hickory and ash should also work well.

Heavily chamfer the end of the pin - I sometimes do this with one of the plastic pocket pencil sharpeners available from an art supply store and made to accomodate lots of different sizes of pencils.

Use wax - This was a tip I picked up from Chris Schwarz' blog. A bit of furniture paste wax on the end of the chamfered pin greatly improves your ability to drive the pin home without splitting it.

[Joel Moskowitz]

A couple of tricks made things go much faster than using drawbore pins to crush the wood fibers on the tenon and slightly enlarge the hole:


if you are using drawbore pins or anything to crush the fibers and enlarge the hole then you are not using drawbore pins correctly. The entire point of real drawbore pins is be able to assemble or part of something, check for square, and then take it apart without wearing the joint.

If the wooden pin you are using is strong enough to force a joint to close up then it is crushing fibers and the joint won't have the same springiness over the long term. AND quickly assembling and disassembling the joint is impossible with wooden pins.

They are optional but good ones make a difference in speed/ease of work.

[David Keller NC]

"If the wooden pin you are using is strong enough to force a joint to close up then it is crushing fibers and the joint won't have the same springiness over the long term. AND quickly assembling and disassembling the joint is impossible with wooden pins."

Hmm - excuse my terminology, Joel. I use the term "drawbore pin" for the actual peg to be permanently installed in a draw-bored joint. Perhaps that would've been a better choice.

The crushing fibers comment was a rather liberal interpretation of my own experience and some of Chris Schwarz' comments in the "Drawboring Ressurrected" chapter of "Workbenches" and photos and comments from his blog. There's absolutely no doubt that pairs of drawbore pins (the steel tools, not the pegs) were used to hold together door frames prior to final assembly, as shown in Lie-Nielsen's You-tube videos, and pictures on other sites.

However, when a draw-bored M&T joint is assembled, and an eccentric draw-bore pin (again, the steel tool) is inserted and twisted, the hole in the tenon is typically seen to have been slightly elongated if the joint is dissasembled and examined. This is what I was referring to about crushing fibers.

[Michael Sobik]

Using tapered pins also crushes the top cheek of the tenon. I think this is actually an advantage since it helps to start the tapered peg properly. The rest of the hole in the tenon is unaffected.

I totally agree with David about using a dowel plate to size pegs. You get to select the straightest driest wood for your pegs. I used straight grain white oak to make the 3/8" pins for my workbench. Just for the heck of it, I made them with a 3lb hammer and beat the living crap out of them. I wanted to see how hard I could hit them when driving them into the workpiece before breaking them. It turns out as long as I hit the peg square I really couldn't break it. They're _really_ strong.

[Steve Hamlin]

I have large RI and 1/4" BS.
Both do a good job, though I think the RIs' weird shaped taper does make them more effective at drawing the joint - less significant with smaller joints/pins I would guess.

[Joel Moskowitz]

However, when a draw-bored M&T joint is assembled, and an eccentric draw-bore pin (again, the steel tool) is inserted and twisted, the hole in the tenon is typically seen to have been slightly elongated if the joint is dissasembled and examined. This is what I was referring to about crushing fibers.

on softer wood this is an unfortunate consequence, on hardwood this shouldn't be happening unless the drawbore pins are forced. (and if you really force them you can break out the wood in front of the hole in the tenon too. - ask me how I know this :( ) this is why a symetrical drawbore pin is problematic. It's way to easy to force the joint, and you don't get the control of a eccentric (not really eccentric - oblique cone). also while Ray makes drawbore pins with octagonal handles I don't import them as I think the round handles gives more than enough grip and if your hand slips on the round handle - you know you have tightened the joint up.

A well filling joint doesn't need to be forced closed - what it needs is to be clased all the way before assembly so that you can test for square etc. You can do this with clamps - it's easy enough. But drawbore pins are faster. they are not intended to straighten out the offset so that wooden pins go in easier.

[John Powers]

Who makes the best pins?? You make the best pins. With the Sears punches Robert mentioned. Its a great country where your free to spend your money exactly as you see fit.

[David Keller NC]

"they are not intended to straighten out the offset so that wooden pins go in easier."

Joel, I'll take your word for it on the original intentions behind drawbore pins. I'm not anywhere near an expert on early tools, and I'd guess that since drawboring is so ancient (early medieval, at least), all of the nuances behind their historical use has been lost to history. However, any of these joints that I've taken apart after using the pin to "start" the wooden peg has had deformation in the longitudinal direction of the hole in the tenon, regardless of the wood, though my experimentation has largely been with domestic hardwoods and mahogany.

I'd always thought that was the original intent of a drawbore pin, because I've personally experienced the difficulty (and in some cases, the impossibility) of driving in the wooden peg, particularly as the M&T joint, the draw-bore hole, and the wooden peg gets large (in the 1/2" range). But I've found that I simply no longer need a drawbore pin - the "sharpening" of the end of the peg and the wax makes tapping the peg home easy. But I'll certainly give some thought to using a 4 of these as temporary pins to test-fit a door together.

I'll note that I've not had to use a drawbore pin to pull the joints tight - my joints are way too sloppy to need that. :D

[Alan DuBoff]

Honestly, I made a pair from the Companion set of punches and alignment pins sold by Sears as Chris Schwarz explained in one of his blogs.
Ditto for me. They work fine when I do need to use them.

[Eric Brown]

Thanks for all the opinions. For now I will try a few things before deciding. I also knew that I would get some frugal responses. Thats ok too. I was surprised nobody said to just shove a phillips screwdriver or long wooden peg into the hole. I know that many different ways can be used to accomplish almost anything. Sometimes I think there is an old man out there with just a hatchet that can make anything better than I ever could. I have a tendancy to fit things a lot and I plan on making some chairs with mortice/tendon joints. Having temporary pins seems to make the most sense. I can't hepl but feel that tho old eccentric pins were made that way for a good reason. It certainly isn't easier to make that a simple taper.

Anyway, thanks again.

Eric

[Phillip Pattee]

Looks like LV will offer draw bore pins soon. I was at the woodworking show in Kansas City this weekend. I went to the Lee Valley booth to try out the new dovetail saw and look at the beading tool. On the shelf right below the dovetail saw there were two draw bore pins, one small and one large. They were finished nicely and had octagonal handles and slight eccentricity. Several of us asked about them. They are prototypes that LV expects to be available in March. I believe the introductory promotional price war $80 for the set. They wouldn't allow us to pre-order them at the show to take advantage of the 10% discount and free shipping.:(

So, anyway there will soon be another alternative for draw bore pins.

[Richard Dooling]

OK so I'm still a little confused. What is the supposed advantage to the eccentric draw bore pins? I'm making mine out of alignment pins and they look round to me.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for all the opinions. For now I will try a few things before deciding. I also knew that I would get some frugal responses. Thats ok too. I was surprised nobody said to just shove a phillips screwdriver or long wooden peg into the hole. I know that many different ways can be used to accomplish almost anything. Sometimes I think there is an old man out there with just a hatchet that can make anything better than I ever could. I have a tendancy to fit things a lot and I plan on making some chairs with mortice/tendon joints. Having temporary pins seems to make the most sense. I can't hepl but feel that tho old eccentric pins were made that way for a good reason. It certainly isn't easier to make that a simple taper.

Anyway, thanks again.

Eric
If you're making a chair, you don't need to drawbore the M&T joints. Chairs are small so you can clamp them easily. Use any modern glue (I like epoxy) and you won't have any problems. You don't have to clamp them hard but if you want to, you can apply a lot of pressure with the good clamps.

You normally make a chair in pieces (depends on the chair) so it's easy to dry fit with clamps. On most chairs, you make the back and glue it up. Same with the front. Then you glue those two pieces with the seat sides.

I'd only use drawbore on large things that can't be clamped easily, such as M&T joints on the lower part of a work bench.

Mike

[Phillip Pattee]

Richard,
The advantage to eccentricity is that you can rotate the pin in the joint to tighten it up while test fitting. When you want to remove it, you rotate it the other way and it comes loose -- you don'e have to bang anything out and you don't distort your joint. At least this is as I understand it. I don't currently have any draw bore pins and have never used them. I'd like to learn this skill though. You can read more about them at Tools for Working Wood. Joel does a good job explaining things.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-DRAWB.XX&Category_Code=TBJ

[Richard Dooling]

Doh!!!
Thanks, Phillip. I wasn't picturing the process all the way through.