Store bought furniture

[Karl Brogger]

I have yet to find anything in a furniture store that I would purchase that isn't apolstered. Does anyone else see this or is it just me? Or, am I just looking in the wrong places? In the past year I've had the misfortune of going to places that sell furniture. Once to purchase a bed, and once again to buy a rug. The thing that I find astounding is what this garbage sells for. Honestly some of it is more expensive than the things that I build for my customers. Best Buy isn't the best place to buy furniture, but a couple of TV stands that they sell are $1800! and its garbage! How can shoppers be so uninformed?


Take this desk for example, I charged (I think, it was a few years ago), $2700. What would that sell for if it were in a furniture store? and what would be the quality?
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/21/l_5b792e3dc5e74566aa02cec66093a7f4.jpg
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[Stephen Tashiro]

I think the masses buy furniture for functionality, not for art. I haven't seen any $1800 TV stands in the local mass market stores. I do notice that most "computer chairs" with wheels sell for $80 to $450. . Most mass market furniture can't take rough handling, but most custom built fine furniture is too precious to handle roughly. So it's about a standoff as far as durability goes.

[Mike Henderson]

Around here, I've visited a number of furniture stores and the stuff they carry is quite decent, and at a good price. It all depends on what you want. The stuff I see will last quite a long time and look decent. My guess is that it gets thrown away when the styles change, and not when it falls apart.

Mike

[Joe Chritz]

I think you are undercharging for that desk at $2700 but that is a different subject all together. I bet the customer was happy and it appears they got a great deal.

Some of the "Amish" furniture stores around here have decent stuff and we have a mom/pop 100 year old furniture store (different mom's and pops I assume :D) that has some top notch furniture at top shelf prices.

People in general are clueless about nearly everything.

Joe

[Don Bullock]

First of all, that is a fantastic desk. If I lived closer I'd put in my order for one at $2700 in a flash.

Karl, I agree in part with your assessment if "store bought" furniture. For the most part it's expensive junk. I've even seen the high priced TV stands that you mention.

I have to admit, however, that a dining room set that my wife and I bought a few years ago is what inspired me to get back into woodworking. The table actually replaced one that I made about thirty years ago. The table and chairs well designed and well made from solid cherry. There is no MDF or plywood in them at all. Once we got the set home it rekindled my love of wood and working with wood so I started setting up my shop with the full support of the LOML.

[Brian Elfert]

The unfinished furniture stores used to carry a good selection of well made solid wood furniture. I bought an oak end table for $80 that was all solid wood and well made. Same for a dresser, chest of drawers, and headboard I bought at the same place.

I've looked at other furniture stores and I don't understand how some of the stuff doesn't fall apart during assembly.

[Lee Schierer]

We live in a throw away society. Most people have been raised up to bleieve that they don't need things to pass on to their grand kids. They buy it useit for a couple of years and then discard it. If it looks good for my home design then I'll buy it. Whether or not it will last 100 or even 10 years isn't a concern to most of the buyers in this country. Even some of the Amish made furniture is starting to use the cheaper materials so they can be price competitive.

I was in a big box store the other day and over heard the kitchen sales person telling the customer that the stapled particle wood drawers were much stronger than conventional drawers and would hold up in the kitchen for years. He also was telling about how durable the mdf shelves were going to be. Apparently he had never heard of dovetails and solid wood construction.

By the way that is a really nice desk and your customer got a good deal.

[Karl Brogger]

I would like to add, that certain engineered materials are often times better to use than solid wood. Mostly for stability reasons. That desk top would be almost impossible to build with out using plywood/mdf as you aren't going to get those giant mitres to stay together with the center growing/shrinking like it will with the change of seasons. For flat panels it starts getting expensive making the doors from solid wood vs 1/4" sheat stock. If the customer wants to pay it, I'm more than happy to oblige thier wishes.

With the comment about drawers, yeah, how can anyone honesltly think that is better? Open your eyes people!

The products I produce have changed a bit since I built that desk. My first generation of cabinets when I started on my own were melamine boxs, with baltic birch drawers, w/ full extension side mount slides, that were just rabbeted and pinned together, with a white bottom. The second generation was still a melamine interior, but with dovetailed baltic birch drawers and the same slides. Generation 3 came with solid dovetailed drawer box's with soft close undermount slides, but I still clung to melamine for some ungoddly reason. Now everything I do, I use the dovetail drawers, and birch plywood for interiors. The price has almost doubled since I first started on my own though, but I think it makes for a nice looking, durable product.

I use MDF for finished ends that aren't panels, and for wood tops. Plywood is just not flat enough. Solid wood for just a plain finished end isn't really the best way to go either, just because of the movement, and the material price, and the trouble it takes to accomadate that movement is expensive. I'd use more solid wood for wood tops, but few and far between are willing to pay for it, and if its surrounded by 3 walls, its not actually a better product.


Thanks for the comments on the desk btw.

[Thomas Bank]

We live in a throw away society. Most people have been raised up to believe that they don't need things to pass on to their grand kids. They buy it use it for a couple of years and then discard it. If it looks good for my home design then I'll buy it. Whether or not it will last 100 or even 10 years isn't a concern to most of the buyers in this country.

I think you've definitely hit on an issue there. Not just a disposable society, but also such a fleeting one. Why should clothing last when it will be out of style in six months (or less)? Why pay more money for a tool when you can buy three disposable ones for the same money and just throw them away when they break? Who knows, you'll probably lose interest in doing the activity that requires the tool anyway... Why build a house that actually suits your needs when you'll probably move out of it in less than ten years? Why take care of your house or car when you'll be moving on to a new one in a few years?

I think it really comes down to buying into being a "consumer society" - everything is about something being new, bigger, better, or whatever. Too many have bought into all the marketing hype that you have to keep pushing the envelope.

But it can be much more rewarding to live by quality and not quantity...

[Karl Brogger]

You both right. Some of my favorite tools have been discontinued, only to be replaced by garbage. The portercable 504 belt sander is a good example of this. Few and far between are willing to spend $800 on a worm drive belt sander, but they last forever, and are completely rebuildable.

[John Schreiber]

. . . People in general are clueless about nearly everything. . . .

I'm with Joe.

The heart of the problem as I see it is that furniture is a fashion item. It always has been, but in the past, fashions stayed largely static or developed gradually for a century or more. Now it's 10 years and everything is out of date.

My in-laws had their kitchen redone recently and I asked why they were doing it with fake MDF routed panels and particle board. They answered honestly, that it cost a lot less, will last 10 years, and they would be replacing it by then anyway because it would be out of style.

On a related note, it used to be only the extremely wealthy which had high style furniture. It is now available to almost everyone.

On a larger note, I don't think it's good for the soul to be surrounded by objects which will be junk in 10 years. (And are arguably junk now.)

[Mike Henderson]

People in general are clueless about nearly everything.

Joe
I don't have such a dim view of consumers. In general, consumers are pretty knowledgeable and make good decisions (for them).

When it comes to "major" purchases, most people do a fair amount of research, know what's available, what the prices are, and what the advantages of each product are. They get information from the Internet, from friends, and, yes, even from salespeople.

We can test the quality of a purchaser's decision by asking how many have "buyer's remorse". If they are satisfied with their purchase, they made a good decision FOR THEM, even if we might not choose the same thing. Price is a major component of the buying decision and cannot be ignored. People balance the competing aspects of the products available and generally make informed decisions.

Informed buying decisions are the foundation of our economic system.

Mike

[It is through the informed buying process that product quality increases over time, such as we've seen with automobiles, electronics, and many other products. People demand better products and the producers respond. Those who don't respond, go out of business.]

[Chris Padilla]

To keep the sanity and my marriage intact, we've had to buy several pieces of furniture. Since ww'ing is a hobby for me, I can't possibly build everything my wife wants/needs unless I just quit my normal job.

To that end, we purchases several items (full dining table w/ 8 chairs, china cabinet, TV stand, sofa/chaise, coffee table, lamp table, leather recliner) all from Ethan Allen. The price was high (about 18k for all that) but the quality is good. Most of the wood in these pieces is solid cherry but there is cherry plywood where appropriate. The wife is happy, I'm happy in regards to the ww'ing involved, and so the family stays intact--which is the most important thing! :D

[Dan Mages]

Ikea is the worst of the lot. I don't think there is anyone out there that makes junkier fiberboard furniture. I do admit to buying their wood shelving for the basement and a few kitchen items, but most of their other stuff is junk.

Dan

[Thomas Bank]

On a larger note, I don't think it's good for the soul to be surrounded by objects which will be junk in 10 years. (And are arguably junk now.)

I'll certainly agree to that!

[Gene Howe]

Wife and I love to shop the estate sale stores that abound around Sun City AZ. The furniture we've purchased there is usually 30-50 years old. Of course, we know what to avoid and what can be repaired, if need be. But, just as nice as getting a good buy on a quality piece is the knowledge that the piece will give us, and probably, our kids, many more years of service. In style-out of style, we don't care. Good wood furniture is timeless, anyway.
That desk is an example of that. Plus, it's beautiful, too.

[whit richardson]

For those who would want something in classical styles I think you can shop/search for top quality antique furniture that costs the same, maybe even less than "solid wood" or custom made pieces. In the midwest here where we have upteen "Amish furniture" places a typical dining room sideboard of quartersawn oak goes for $4500 - $6000 (no top yet). You can buy a antique sideboard in a big market like Chicago for maybe $2500 - $4000. If your style is more contemporary well.. buy or make it.

[Karl Brogger]

This has gotten me started on the "What was I thinking path", and I've been looking at some pictures from projects past. I had to dig to find what I charged for this. $1571.39 is what I charged in 2005, and I'm pretty sure I delivered it too. I turned the legs if you're wondering. The finish was a flat black laquer. It looked like a chalk board, kinda cool, but I bet its a nightmare to dust. Looking back I could've probably doubled the price. It was built to spec, so completely one off.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/37/l_746ec15543a943788c9304accbb3d28d.jpg


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For years now I've wanted to open a furniture store. Something small to both give the residential cabinetry a bit more exposure, and to fill in some of the slower times by restocking the furniture end of things. Plus, if someone wanted something a bit smaller, or a different color they could be easily accomodated. Right now wouldn't be the best time to do so obviously for a number of reasons. Most importantly I don't have the capital to front something that probably won't make any money at least the first year, much less buy materials and finishing costs.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Karl...both pieces are very, very handsome. Your prices seem very low relative to the material, time and design that apparently went into your pieces.

As far as production furniture...
One thing I like about furniture stores is all the neat design concepts. Even cheap furniture often has a really cool look, especially if it has a unique contemporary style. For instance, check out a Home Decorators catalog or their website, but be careful what you buy.

Also, metal, stone and glass materials are commonly found in furniture designs these days whether it's a coffee table, a chair or a bed. This look is difficult to reproduce for a 'one-off' home hobbyist. Check out the piece below (the one on the left is fake). It's all wood except for the plexiglass top. I 'borrowed' the idea from a furniture store design that was prevalent in end tables, coffee tables and night stands. :)http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/PedestalCompare.jpg

I'm actually considering buying two new furniture store end tables that are all metal because I like the look. Go figure.

-Jeff :)

[Mac McQuinn]

I've found that you can purchase very well made 1930-40's furniture for reasonable prices in the Mid-west. Hardware is occasionally a bit garish at times but heavy duty and fully functional. We purchased a mahogany desk a couple years back for $280.00 at a large antique mall and it had a 1/4" glass top for protection. Drawers were all dovetailed, Piece had original finish and it took two husky lads to move it into place. Best part is it was made in the USA, not China. It seems furniture of this particular period is not as collectable and is priced very reasonable on today's market.

As far as contemporary manufacturers, there's always companys like Warren Hile, Stickley, Harden, etc who make very nice furniture, albeit at a price. This is lifetime furniture though and will last. It will not end up in the refuse pile and will be handed down generations.

Mac

[Sonny Edmonds]

People in general are clueless about nearly everything.

Joe

So true, Joe, so true!
Why, American politics are a blatant eggzample of that! :p

[Jim Becker]

Ikea is the worst of the lot. I don't think there is anyone out there that makes junkier fiberboard furniture.

Dan, I have to respectfully disagree with this. While the lower end products are, well...low end...their leading products are quite well made. My daughter's dresser is made of solid pine and the identical one in white thermofoil on particle board/MDF that I used for a built-in in the master closet was equally well constructed. I have some pieces that are from when Ikea first came to the US (the first store was near here) including two leather love seats and some pieces bought as recently as last year. I'll go to Ikea before I'll plunk down money on a lot of the poorly constructed stuff I see in so many of the furniture stores. But in general, these purchases are for a particular functional need and my expectations are set accordingly. I do carefully choose what pieces I buy there and base the choice on intended use and use timeframe. If I had all the time in the world, I'd build everything myself, however!

[Karl Brogger]

I've got an IKEA dining table and chairs, actually it belongs to the girlfriend. I can't believe how light the table and chairs are, but nothing is wobbly. My biggest complaint is the finish, but the dining area in our house is tiny, so is the table. I'm lazy, and have never built chairs so it'll work for now, and will probably continue to do so for quite some time.

My cousin does cabinetry and furniture as well, he makes some freakin' sweet chairs. Really nice designs and really well made. He's one of those artistic types with his work. A while back he made a set of chairs for someone at $600 a pop. They were quite nice.