Sorta wood related since....

[Bill White]

we're building a new home.
Any of you have a gas tankless water heater? What do ya think about 'em?
Bill

[David G Baker]

I have heard good things about them. They cost more up front but pay for themselves reasonably quick if you have natural gas instead of propane. Best time to install them in during original construction or during a remodel. I don't know which brand is best but do an Epinions dot com search and they may have some answers for you. If/when I have to replace my tank type water heater, (not hot water heater, re another thread :D) I will more than likely go with tank-less gas water heater.

[Steve Knowlton]

I have a tankless water heater. It is electric. I love it. My elctric bill has went down. My water bill went up.

[jeff begin]

The results will depend on your climate and your maximum, concurrent water usage. The higher the flow rate (gallons-per-minute) you need, the less it can can raise the temperature. I wouldn't install one here in Michigan because it gets too cold in these parts for a tankless to keep up with our household water usage. I'd never get a hot shower in winter if the wife was doing laundry or running the dishwasher. I did have a co-worker who installed one in a summer cottage in upper Michigan though and loves it.

[James Jaragosky]

The results will depend on your climate and your maximum, concurrent water usage. The higher the flow rate (gallons-per-minute) you need, the less it can can raise the temperature. I wouldn't install one here in Michigan because it gets too cold in these parts for a tankless to keep up with our household water usage. I'd never get a hot shower in winter if the wife was doing laundry or running the dishwasher. I did have a co-worker who installed one in a summer cottage in upper Michigan though and loves it.

They have been using them in Europe for years.
my sister lived in Germany for 15 years and she loves the system.
More efficient, less cost to operate. Plenty of hot water.

At around $1200. the last time I looked it was hard to talk the wife into the extra $600. to put one in.

Can someone explain to me how the climate would be a issue?
The water pipes up to my home are 3 feet below ground, the temperature there should be fairly constant I would think.

I could see the size of the home having a effect on the water temperature.
Although I would think that you would need a 5 or 6 thousand sqf home to see a noticeable drop in temperature

[Ben Franz]

There have been a number of articles about these in Fine Homebuilding over the last few years. One article was written by a plumber who designed a storage tank to assist the tankless WH:confused:. I don't remember all the details but it seemed absurd on the surface. You may find some good info thru the index or the website.

[David G Baker]

I live in Mid Michigan and my water comes from a well that is 121 feet deep, the house supply lines are 48 inches below grade and the average temperature is in the neighborhood of 55 degrees year around. With only two people living in my house a tank-less water heater should take care of all of our hot water needs.
I lived in Germany for two years while I was in the Army and lived off base. My hot water was heated with a tank-less water heater. This was in 1963. The tank-less heaters were the major source of hot water in most of the homes in the area where I lived.
I do not know what the temperatures of city water supplies are.

[Colin Giersberg]

Check out Rinnai's website. They explain the process fairly well, and I think that they have a cost comparison on different systems.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Can someone explain to me how the climate would be a issue?
The water pipes up to my home are 3 feet below ground, the temperature there should be fairly constant I would think.


Not always James.
When I lived in Wyoming for 7 years, there was times when the frost got to 13 feet deep. In other words, a 13 foot deep block of ice. :eek:
The town of Riverton had everybody run a tap in their house 24/7 so the mains would stop freezing. :confused:
No, not the mains to the homes. The big mains in the streets!

So you see, some places it gets damned cold, even under the ground. :)

And I've never been cold since I moved back to California! :rolleyes:

[Sonny Edmonds]

No we don't, Bill.
But it will be with the next one. We had ours fail while the home was under the new home owner insurance, so it got replaced.
But when I do it myself the next time (if ever), it will be a tankless jobber.

[James Jaragosky]

Not always James.
When I lived in Wyoming for 7 years, there was times when the frost got to 13 feet deep. In other words, a 13 foot deep block of ice. :eek:
The town of Riverton had everybody run a tap in their house 24/7 so the mains would stop freezing. :confused:
No, not the mains to the homes. The big mains in the streets!

So you see, some places it gets damned cold, even under the ground. :)

And I've never been cold since I moved back to California! :rolleyes:
here is a frost line map for the USA.
file:///C:/Users/JIM/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg

[Paul Atkins]

We have a Bosch and love it - never run out of hot water even when all the relatives are here and take back to back showers. It acts differently from our old tank one, but you just have to get used to it. If you turn off the water for little bit and back on again there is a cold plug of water but not too bad. No pilot light and no electricity to it as there is a hydrogenerator in it to light it when you turn on the tap. Pretty cool---uh hot. There are some that can be hung on the outside of the house which explains the climate comment as they heat on a differential principle.

[Eddie Simmons]

We use them in commercial offices, they work well. The ones we use cost around 1600.00 and we install with our people. I have not done a return on investment cost study on them. We just started using them on Dec of 2008.
I will probably us it in my home when the one I have now go south.
Eddie

[Tom Godley]

I have had them in two different houses and have been in many houses with them -- They need to be installed in a correctly designed system.

Both the gas and electric work basically the same so they do not differ all that much as to the design needs.

I installed one to provide hot water to a new master bath that was far from the rest of the systems - it worked because we were able to size the unit to almost match the needed output. I used the tankless because we needed to keep the size to a minimum and I wanted to try it.

I did the same thing when we remodeled a kitchen at a weekend house and installed a unit to provide hot water to a new dishwasher and washer /dryer in addition to the kitchen sink -- this one was electric. We needed to size this one differently - so you could not use all three at the same time using just hot water. But we did not want the unit going off and on while using the sink --- we wanted steady water temp.

They are used all over the world ...... yes --- but they originally were installed as almost point of use heaters installed in houses where hot water was not available - and space was a problem. I have been in larger German houses were they have three and four of the units -- that should tell you something about trying to use one

When you try to adapt them to do multiple bathrooms in large homes where the demand will change widely you have to expect some fluctuation. And the inlet water temperature change from winter /summer is a major design consideration. I would do your homework before I used one for a large house. Also, I have found that they require more maintenance than the tank units that I have found to be almost trouble free.

One place where I think the electric units are great -- I installed a small unit just to fill a large bath that would have require a oversized storage tank. The house was all electric so this I think was a good move.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Well, that sure as hell doesn't show the winter of '78-'79!
The deepest they had to dig to thaw out a main was 13', and the ground was still frozen below the main.
But hey, live like you wanna live, Baby!
(That winter also killed over 70% of the wildlife)

[Bill White]

Thanks for the comments. Best I can get around here is, "Well, it says it should work well". DUH!!! The bubbas here are a little slow on the uptake of new tech.
Bill

[Jim Becker]

Yes, I went natural gas tankless in our addition this past year. Outstanding! Costly due to the venting requirements where the unit is positioned, but outstanding in performance. If I could have accommodated the venting in the original portions of the house, I'd have one there, too.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I looked into these as a replacement for our current NG tank water heater, but I couldn't justify it with our current house "layout". it wouldn't be "close" enough to any of the loads to avoid the long delay while warm water came up (for the on/off/on/off of sinks, etc). For new construction, OR for a high-demand single point-of-use (hot tub, or if we moved laundry, renovate the master bath, etc) then I might consider it - they do look appealing for some uses.