Time for Black arm bands in Central Illinois

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

Unless something miraculous happens in the next 10 days (and the odds are NOT good) Woodcraft in Peoria will be closing their doors for good. Having worked there for the past 5-1/2 years, it is tremendously stunning to me. Not that I couldn't see it coming, I could. Not being able to do anything about it is disheartning. The store, for those of you who never had the opportunity to shop there missed an enjoyable venture.

The staff are knowedgeable, friendly, and helpful.

I can't really imagine not having them around.

For those, both local and from a 150 mile radius of Peoria, who were kind enough to support our efforts to keep the store open, and became part of our family, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!

On a more hopeful note, I intend to continue teaching Woodturning. I am in the process of moving my supplies into another location, which has to be totally gutted and renovated. It looks like a 2-1/2 - 3 month job.

Good Luck to you all!

Remember------------------ if you don't support local businesses, all you will have is the INTERNET.

Bruce:o:o:o

[Mike Heidrick]

This is the store I bought my sawstop from. It is about 40 miles one way from me. Your comment about supporting local business is noted.

Have to say though that having to pay tax and shipping on my sawstop to woodcraft in Peoria and then making an eighty mile round trip drive to go get it was pretty darn bogus. I really felt like woodcraft passed that shipping expense on to me. You can buy the same saw online and have it shipped to your house with liftgate and residential delivery freight for $89.99 and no tax from toolking.com for me. My shipping and tax was well over $650!! Then it turns out that if I order from Woodcraft.com I do not pay tax?? Grrrrrrrr.

Anyway, thanks to Woodcraft for having a nice store for items I wanted right now while i was in Peoria. Also liked their clearence section.

Mybe I can buy some sawstop brakes and sawstop ZCI throat plate inserts from them cheap before they close. Bruce can you set some aside for me??

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

Well Mike, the closeout prices might not be as low as some think they will be.

1. Large tools have a very low profit margin to start with.

2. Woodcraft will be taking back inventory, too.

Last time I looked, we did have several cartridges on hand.

Bruce


Bruce

[Carl Babel]

Bruce, sorry to hear it. It is a sad day whenever we lose a local store (no matter where you are). Browsing on the internet will never quite be the same as browsing through a store.

[Stephen Edwards]

Unfortunately, I think we're going to see more and more brick and mortar stores closing their doors. In these tough economic times it's difficult for many of them to make a go off it with their overhead, compared to internet companies.

I realize that a REAL store gives people more options in terms of classes, demonstrations, seeing and touching a tool up close before purchasing, etc. On the other hand, for people like myself, it's a 200 mile round trip to the nearest Woodcraft store. From the comfort and convenience of home I can order tools and accessories, often cheaper even with shipping charges figured in, than I can make the trip to a real store. We have to face reality. The internet has changed the way people shop. Internet sales are growing every year even as brick and mortar stores are experiencing declining sales.

Even the parent companies of businesses like Woodcraft and Rockler offer "internet only" specials that would seem to hurt the local stores.

[Larry Edgerton]

We all need to take a look at not only where we shop but where what we are buying is made. As a country we are cutting our own throats with our WalMart mentality. I have a construction company with 12 laid off employees that can be directly attributed to a loss of manufacturing jobs in my home state. This is happening everywhere.

Bruce, I am sorry for your loss, and more sorry for the employees that do not have your options. These are sad times indeed.

[Ben Martin]

Sorry to hear that Bruce. Driven by there a lot, never stopped in though.

Unfortunately Peoria is a one show town, however Cat does directly reflects on that towns economy...

[Gary Herrmann]

Good luck with your classes, Bruce.

[Don Bullock]

Bruce, I wish you the best with your classes. I'm sorry that the local Woodcraft is closing.

As for purchasing over the Internet instead of the local store, that's a difficult one. Until recently the closest Woodcraft to me was more than a two hour drive (depending on traffic) from my home. I took a four day class from them that was excellent and bought quite a few items including me DW 735, but I can't shop there in a regular basis. Over the past three years that I've been acquiring tools for my shop driving down to the Woodcraft store was too inconvenient and their prices were quite a bit higher than even their Internet "specials." Recently a new Woodcraft has opened closer to me. Due to all the things I've been doing I'll have to admit that I haven't even been there yet and I'm really not planning to buy any tools in the near future that they sell. I'm now preparing to move to an area where the closest Woodcraft will be a long drive. There is a Rockler that is closer and I've already started to shop there. They give a 10% discount on all items (except for the usual exceptions, i.e. Festool, etc) for those of us who belong to the San Diego Fine Woodworkers Association. It's a nice perk that will influence me to shop there more often, but it's still about an hour away from my home.

[Jim Hill]

Bruce,

Sorry to hear that the store is closing. I don't get up there much, but when I did, I almost always bought something. I was there a couple of times late last year. Being in retail myself, I suspected something was going on. On my last visit, one of the guys said he was leaving for a new job. I hope your new venture works out well for you.

Jim

[Rod Sheridan]

We all need to take a look at not only where we shop but where what we are buying is made. As a country we are cutting our own throats with our WalMart mentality. I have a construction company with 12 laid off employees that can be directly attributed to a loss of manufacturing jobs in my home state. This is happening everywhere.

Bruce, I am sorry for your loss, and more sorry for the employees that do not have your options. These are sad times indeed.


Agreed.

Sorry to hear about the store closing Bruce, my best wishes are with you.......Rod.

[Jim Becker]

This is disappointing news, Bruce, but as others have already said, not surprising in many respects. Firms that cater to "disposable income" are likely to be hit harder right now, although no retailer of any size is immune to the present economic down-turn. This is a real smack to your franchise owner, too, when you consider what they had to put into the business just to open the doors, let alone over time to keep things moving.

[Chris Padilla]

Geez, it sure is depressing hearing such things!

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Woodcraft never opened a store in NJ. Even after Woodworker's Warehouse closed its stores here, nothing replaced them. Now, based on Bruce's post, it looks like the chance of having a Woodcraft in NJ is about gone.

It looks like it remains to be mailorder for me.

-Jeff :)

[Tim Anderson]

Bruce, sorry to hear that. I made the 45 mile trip down just last month to pick up some things. I always liked being able to pick up products and get advice on using them also. ARe they doing a closing sale or is most going back to Mother Woodcraft?

[David Keller NC]

"My shipping and tax was well over $650!! Then it turns out that if I order from Woodcraft.com I do not pay tax?? Grrrrrrrr."

Hmm - Not sure about Illinois law, but in North Carolina you are required to pay the sales tax, it's just that the (online) merchant doesn't have to collect it. One has to report it on their state income tax return.

[Mike Heidrick]

Well for now at least Pekin Hardwood is about as far and they are a Rockler outlet and WMH and Festool retailer. Then there is Berlands House of tools in Joliet and is well worth the drive if you need something now or from a dealer/Store Front.

Online shopping is killing them all though. Had a book from amazon on the step today. It was $8.88 for 2-day shipped (Prime) for a new copy of Sketchup for Dummies. Barnes and Noble and Borders were full suggested retail and both had to order it.

[Gene Howe]

As a former resident (near Vandalia) I'm saddened to hear of Peoria's loss. It sounds like you had a good store, there. Good owner.

today our home is about 150 mi. north of Phoenix, AZ. There are two WCs down there. Been to both. Won't darken either's door again. Knowledgeable, they are not. And, what's worse, they don't care. They could save some $$ by getting rid of some dead weight, for sure.

Now, the folks at the home office are very knowledgeable and go out of their way to be helpful. I needed some obscure parts for an item that they are in the process of discontinuing and they scrounged them up or cannibalized them for me. I was impressed.

[Tim Anderson]

I had bought from Pekin Hardwoods before finding Peoria Woodcraft and they were good to work with. Also the store on the south edge of Morris has/had good service. Unfortunately both stores add more travel time. I'd rather buy local. The LOML (bless her) bought me a gift card for our anniversary for an internet woodworkers site. I ordered a couple of router bits, a finish saw and a hand plane on 12/8 and still haven't received everything while Xmas and my birthday have now passed. Repeated calls have not provided the solution yet so cheap internet prices don't really impress me.

[John Schreiber]

I'm sorry to hear it. I'm about 100 miles away, but I've been over there twice and I've spent some money each time. The guys working there were very nice too. Can't say if I remember that it was you Bruce. I like to be able to touch products before I spend my money, but there are fewer and fewer opportunities.

Late last year, I spent ~~ $120 on German made front vise hardware. Holding it in my hand, I could see that it really was worth twice as much as the Chinese made copy, but I couldn't have told that on the Internet.

In fact, on the Woodcraft website (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4875)it says "We've tested and compared these Chinese imports to our German-made hardware and, other than the price, we find very little difference between them." With all due respect, that's a load of . . . . What it tells me now is that I probably shouldn't trust other things which they say. If I could go to their local (100 miles away) store and check it myself, I will, but now I can't even do that.

I guess Pekin Hardwood is an option, but the time I went there at 3:00 on a Saturday, they were closed. The Internet is all that's left. Thank the stars for Lee Valley.

[Howard Norman]

As a former resident (near Vandalia) I'm saddened to hear of Peoria's loss. It sounds like you had a good store, there. Good owner.

today our home is about 150 mi. north of Phoenix, AZ. There are two WCs down there. Been to both. Won't darken either's door again. Knowledgeable, they are not. And, what's worse, they don't care. They could save some $$ by getting rid of some dead weight, for sure.

Now, the folks at the home office are very knowledgeable and go out of their way to be helpful. I needed some obscure parts for an item that they are in the process of discontinuing and they scrounged them up or cannibalized them for me. I was impressed.
I am aware of the WC store in Chandler but don't know of any other WC stores in the Phoenix area. Where is the other one? There is/was one in Tucson the last I checked.

[Larry Edgerton]

Not sure how far it is from you fellows but there is a LL Johnsons Lumber in South Bend, and they have awesome wood selections at much better prices than woodcraft, and the people there know what they are doing. I order all of my wood from their Charlotte, Mi home office. They are also a Rockler dealer, and carry their own heavy duty lines as well.

I order my wood from them without seeing it first, and the couple of times I was not happy they took care of it. That was a hard thing for me to do, give up that control, but I had no options close to me. Worked out well so far. They deliver in a fairly large circle from each store in a route kind of pattern, and the rates are very reasonable, especially for larger orders as the reat is flat.

Just an option some may want to look at........

Oh, and their calendars are awesome! It is all old pictures of their business, and the business is 100 years old this year. If nothing else call them up and ask for a calendar.

[Mark Smith, too]

The Woodcraft in Orange, CT closed this past fall. The owner said it never was a profitable business. Woodworking is not strong around here and there are two other Woodcraft stores within 60 miles so that probably contributed.

Closeout prices mostly ranged in the 15-25% range. They had virtually no big equipment left before the announcement. All Lie-Nielsen stuff was not marked down at all. Of course, no mark-downs on Festool. Picked up a few items I'd wanted but overall the place had started to shut down and cut inventory well before the final sale.

[Jon Grider]

We all need to take a look at not only where we shop but where what we are buying is made. As a country we are cutting our own throats with our WalMart mentality. I have a construction company with 12 laid off employees that can be directly attributed to a loss of manufacturing jobs in my home state. This is happening everywhere.

Bruce, I am sorry for your loss, and more sorry for the employees that do not have your options. These are sad times indeed.


Well put,Larry.

Bruce, sorry to hear of the closing, thoughts and prayers to those losing their jobs.

[Bill Keehn]

"My shipping and tax was well over $650!! Then it turns out that if I order from Woodcraft.com I do not pay tax?? Grrrrrrrr."

Hmm - Not sure about Illinois law, but in North Carolina you are required to pay the sales tax, it's just that the (online) merchant doesn't have to collect it. One has to report it on their state income tax return.

If I recall, companies that receive online and telephone orders are required to collect sales tax if they are shipping to states in which they have a brick and mortar retail presence.

[Joe Suelter]

Dang. I live in Peoria, in fact, I could probably hit your store with a stone from my backyard. I haven't been in the store for a little over a year, heck, I haven't been on here in longer than that! I took a little break from everything after my daughter was born.

I too am saddened to hear of WoodCraft closing. I spent many an hour drooling over the big boy toys and buying chunks of wood to try my hand at bowl and pen turnings. I remember the Freedom Pen Project show that was held there. Awesome show with a great turnout!

Woodcraft will be missed by many.

Please drop me a PM as to where you are setting up shop. Maybe I'll just take you up on a class or two!

[Clay Crocker]

That's a bummer :( That store is about 1-1/2 hours from me, and I have bought quite a few things from them over the years. In fact, I was just in there about two months ago picking up some lumber rack parts and CT33 bags. I didn't get to Peoria very often, but whenever I did, I tried to make it a point to stop in there. Oh well, looks like all my future Woodcraft purchases will be via the internet.

Clay

[michael flay]

"My shipping and tax was well over $650!! Then it turns out that if I order from Woodcraft.com I do not pay tax?? Grrrrrrrr."

Hmm - Not sure about Illinois law, but in North Carolina you are required to pay the sales tax, it's just that the (online) merchant doesn't have to collect it. One has to report it on their state income tax return.

I don't think most people are going to go out of there way to give the government more money then they already do!!!!!!

[Dave Lehnert]

Question for the group. Now think about this. How many of the tools that we purchase on-line did we first look at in the store (like Woodcraft) To touch and feel, Then decide to search for a lower price on the net and purchase.
Would we have made that on-line purchased if it were not for the touch and feel the store provided? What will we do if all the local stores go under and on-line is our only option? Do you think shipping from Amazon will be free if they are the only place to buy tools?

[Mike Heidrick]

I make a lot of purchases based on recomendations from other forum members laying hands on tools, putting power or muscle to them, and using them. Woodcraft never did that for me. Did I go in there to see tools in real life, sure, but that was after much research was done.

Without the internet I would have been happy with Sears/Craftsman.

[Mike Henderson]

I buy many of my tools from Woodcraft - unless there's a big price difference on the Internet. I know all the people who work there, and they treat me really well.

Oh, and I also teach there.

Mike

[Shawn Christ]

Geez, I'm sorry to hear that Bruce. I lived in Washington, just east of Peoria, from 1999 to 2006. I was in your store a few times looking around as I slowly built an interest in woodworking. Bought some hardware but no major purchases. I wish I would have tried a class or two, though.

Thanks for posting and best of luck to you.

[Peter Luch]

I hate to see retail stores go under!

The problem is that the manufacturers of tools are so hard up for sales they do not care who sells them.

The manufacturers AND the public needs to wake up.

Someone selling on the internet has an office, sells all the same things that WC does but has NO warehouse and NO inventory. Everything is dropped shipped by the manufacturer from the factory.

Someone selling with a retail location has inventory so YOU can see and touch the product, let alone drive off with it the same day. They also employ people at the store.

When you buy something off the internet YOU get a better price BUT you are driving out retail outlets, when they are all gone you will have noone to blame but yourself.

Enjoy the internet!

Aloha, Pete

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I'm seeing a lot of posts that blame the demise of brick and mortar stores on the internet. However, Woodcraft was always announcing new stores until the economy began to wobble last fall.

Let's face it, Woodcraft relies heavily of disposable income as do hobby stores, craft shops, electronics, etc. And, disposable income is really hurting. I'm sure internet retailers are also showing a significant drop in sales as evident by the bombardment of emails that I get these days.

Don't get too down. Having internet retail is a good thing to the consumer. In my area, brick and mortar woodworking stores are essentially non-existent thus mailorder is the remedy. Then there are those specialty items that have a limited market. The internet makes these items available to all.

As stated earlier, this forum and others like it, are a great source of info if you can not touch and feel the item. Also, most reputable internet sources have decent return policies if you are not satisfied.

However, I do admit that I like to 'touch and feel' the stuff first. I'm just not sure how much more I'm willing to pay for it.

-Jeff :)

[Gene Howe]

Howard, I misspoke. The second one was in Tucson. Age Activated Memory Disorder!:eek:

[David Keller NC]

"If I recall, companies that receive online and telephone orders are required to collect sales tax if they are shipping to states in which they have a brick and mortar retail presence."

Ahh - you're correct about that, at least in North Carolina, though I'm unsure if that's part of our state law or is universal in the federal law that exempts the net from state taxation. Oddly, I'm pretty sure Woodcraft has a 50 state retail presence, but I've never been charged state sales tax when I've purchased something from them mail order.

"I don't think most people are going to go out of there way to give the government more money then they already do!!!!!!"

Regardless of my political sympathies in line with this comment, failure to pay state sales tax on 'net purchases, particularly items over $1500, is the equivalent of tax evasion. Being audited could be a very unpleasant experience if one did not declare those items.

[Craig McCormick]

"If I recall, companies that receive online and telephone orders are required to collect sales tax if they are shipping to states in which they have a brick and mortar retail presence."

Ahh - you're correct about that, at least in North Carolina, though I'm unsure if that's part of our state law or is universal in the federal law that exempts the net from state taxation. Oddly, I'm pretty sure Woodcraft has a 50 state retail presence, but I've never been charged state sales tax when I've purchased something from them mail order.

"I don't think most people are going to go out of there way to give the government more money then they already do!!!!!!"

Regardless of my political sympathies in line with this comment, failure to pay state sales tax on 'net purchases, particularly items over $1500, is the equivalent of tax evasion. Being audited could be a very unpleasant experience if one did not declare those items.

Avoiding sales taxes on a $1500 purchase would only bring a small fine. Worth taking a chance for many.

AZCRAIG

[Craig McCormick]

As a former resident (near Vandalia) I'm saddened to hear of Peoria's loss. It sounds like you had a good store, there. Good owner.

today our home is about 150 mi. north of Phoenix, AZ. There are two WCs down there. Been to both. Won't darken either's door again. Knowledgeable, they are not. And, what's worse, they don't care. They could save some $$ by getting rid of some dead weight, for sure.

Now, the folks at the home office are very knowledgeable and go out of their way to be helpful. I needed some obscure parts for an item that they are in the process of discontinuing and they scrounged them up or cannibalized them for me. I was impressed.

Gene,

Sorry to hear your experience was not good at the Chandler store. My experience has been quite different. There have been a few employees over the years that I didn't care for but overall I like shopping at their store. I am sure the employees are not highly paid.

Yesterday.I got a great deal on one of those dust collector blast gate kits that turns your collector on when you open the gate. $30 for the starter kit.

AZCRAIG

[Carl Babel]

I buy many tools and supplies at Woodcraft, also. My closest WC is about 25 minutes from my house, so it isn't a big imposition. I find that even after all of the research and discussion, I still really want to get my hands on the tool. As an example, when I wanted to buy a new bench plane, I went to WC. The owner (at that time - since changed) brought out several planes and a nice chunk of French oak. He let me take my time checking them out and even gave me a few pointers. I bought one then and have bought a second one since at WC. You can't buy that on the internet.

[Matt Meiser]

On the sales tax issue. Most, if not all, Woodcraft stores are franchises. So technically Woodcraft doesn't have a presence in most states according to the way I understand things (which is pretty limited.) We pay sales tax on mail order purchases as part of our income tax filing here in Michgan. I've got to believe that in this day and age, claiming you didn't make any mail order purchases would set off some kind of red flag.

To me, Woodcraft isn't really worth using as a mail order source as there are plenty of other good sources and Woodcraft tends to be more expensive. I didn't buy much from Woodcraft until they opened a store in Toledo because the store that used to be closest to me wasn't worth the drive. Toledo is well stocked, has knowledgeable salespeople, and most importantly, they are friendly. It is owned by a husband and wife team and I always see one if not both of them in the store.

I lived in Peoria for about a year in 1996-7. I wish I'd known about Woodcraft back then as I'd probably have taken some classes there. Living in an apartment, it was difficult to do much woodworking besides watching Norm (and I did a lot of that.)

[Rod Sheridan]

Avoiding sales taxes on a $1500 purchase would only bring a small fine. Worth taking a chance for many.

AZCRAIG


Scaler Integrity??????

Regards, Rod

[Tom Leasure]

Guy's we need to wake up - when all the small business's are gone & we are only left with the Big Boxes or the internet then who has who by the gonad's ??
Personally I would like to see a law passed that if you sell on the internet you would be required to have a location (or several) where you can get touchy/feely with what you are wanting to purchase - like Grizzly - my 2 cents

Tom

[Dick Strauss]

Bruce,
I'm sorry to hear about the closing of your local WC store. I remember how excited you were when you announced your WC job in the turners area. I know that you worked there and enjoyed your job for quite some time.


Best of luck,
Dick

[Stephen Edwards]

Guy's we need to wake up - when all the small business's are gone & we are only left with the Big Boxes or the internet then who has who by the gonad's ??
Personally I would like to see a law passed that if you sell on the internet you would be required to have a location (or several) where you can get touchy/feely with what you are wanting to purchase - like Grizzly - my 2 cents

Tom

That ain't gonna happen, the law being passed that you propose. Competition, thus competitive pricing, is thriving on the net. If all of the brick and mortar stores were to close (I certainly hope that they don't!) we'd still have a competitive market place. Google any item that you can imagine and chances are that you'll find many sources for that item on the net with varying prices and different levels of customer service.

For me, the brick and mortar woodworking supply stores are a moot point anyway, with the exception of the Big Box stores or my local hardware store. I buy as much as I can from the local hardware stores. It's over a hundred miles to the nearest Woodcraft store and I think that it's about 300 miles to the nearest Rockler. For folks like myself the internet gives me options that I otherwise would not have. I'm a Rockler customer, just from afar!

This is not to say that I don't feel compassion for brick and mortar stores that are suffering. I do. I also think that they offer a good service to the communities where they're located. My hope for woodworking supply houses, and for all businesses in our country, is for our economy to recover and for businesses to thrive both on the net and in a walk in building near you.....and me.

Kind Regards,

[Chris Schoolland]

I have a friend who was complaining about this recently. He was not talking about Woodcraft, but brick and mortar stores in general; lamenting how many have missed the boat on leveraging their advantage of a physical presence. Most internet companies amp up customer service plus whatever else they can think of, while many brick and mortar stores have plodded along without significantly adapting.

I've only been to a Woodcraft once, and it seemed like a fantastic place. And of course internet stores can go under as well. Times like these make it harder for everyone, and my heart goes out to the many affected by this.

Chris

[Greg McCallister]

Being I have a Woodcraft less than a mile from me and a Rockler around 10 miles or so I am pretty lucky. Then there's both BORG's one less than a mile away an the the other 5 miles away.
I try to shop at the Woodcraft as often a possible to keep them in business. Sometimes it's just not economically feasible for me to spend twice as much for a product, such as Baltic Birch plywood, that I can acquire making a 30 mile round trip and save half the cost. Were not talking $5.00 but more like $45-50.00 difference.
I do what I can though. Staff is extremely friendly at my woodcraft to say the least. I will keep this in mind the next time I think about saving a buck but sometimes you just cant justify spending the extra.

[Gregory Stahl]

Can't resist anymore, I must weigh in.

I think Woodcraft could do better if many of the owners took some economic classes and better understood demand curves, etc.

I opened a hobby related retail store where several others have failed, and the store is booming. December was the most profitable month we have ever had, and this January is ahaed of the last 5 years so far. People are staying home and working on hobbies.

What is the secret? Simple, understand your demand and price accordingly. My store sells most items at 20% to 25% discount off retail. My profit per sale averages 20-30% of retail, far below the recommended margins by manufactures and distributors. If I listened to them, I would be bankrupt. I tried explaining this to the owner of the local Woodcraft one day, and he was not hearing any of it. Instead, he is focused on getting the most per item, and not realizing that his sales would increase if the prices were dropped a little bit. The result, I spent $10-$15k at Rockler and other stores, and he did not get any because he was adamit about making a certain margin on a table saw, when I was in the market for a planer, jointer, dp, etc. I did not ask for a specific discount, just told him I was in the market for many new machines as I was upgrading my shop, and asked what he could do. Rockler's sale price for a Jet 22/44 was over $300 lower than what my local Woodcraft would do.

Now that my hobby store is established, we are getting calls and emails everyday from around the country from people wanting to buy everyday items at a discount because their stores wont discount. There are hundreds of online sources for these items, but a fair price from a brick and morter store has won over more than enough customers to make it profitable. I feel very confident I could do the same with a woodworking store. I foound I have to be a business man first, and a hobbiest second.

When a hobby becomes a business, owners owe it to themselves to step back, get some economic and business education, and run a business without the hobby interferring. Operating by the simple rules learned in these classes has worked, and proven themselves time and time again. Do not sit back and listen to what your distributors and manufactures tell you, determin what the fair retail price is on your own, and price accordingly. Big ticket items in my store go out the door at cost or a little above everyday. It is keeping the customer that counts. The little things bring in much higher margins, and overall, it is the profit at the end of the day that counts, not the specific margin per item.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but I am just sharing my experience as it may potentially benefit others. I have seen many local businesses fail for these reasonons, and competiton from me has been the casue for some of these. Sometimes I feel guilty or bad, but business is first, and my customers are thankful for me.

Sorry to ramble on, but I am a bit passonate about this, I'm sure some of you can relate.

Best,
Greg Stahl

[Mark Mack]

I hate to see retail stores go under!

The problem is that the manufacturers of tools are so hard up for sales they do not care who sells them.

The manufacturers AND the public needs to wake up.

Someone selling on the internet has an office, sells all the same things that WC does but has NO warehouse and NO inventory. Everything is dropped shipped by the manufacturer from the factory.

Someone selling with a retail location has inventory so YOU can see and touch the product, let alone drive off with it the same day. They also employ people at the store.

When you buy something off the internet YOU get a better price BUT you are driving out retail outlets, when they are all gone you will have noone to blame but yourself.

Enjoy the internet!

Aloha, Pete

Is it okay though if I shop at Woodcraft.com?

[Bill Huber]

I hate to see any local store close but I think Woodcraft would do better if they (my local Woodcraft) watched their inventory better, lowered their prices a little and stop trying to up sell everyone.

I have found that before I drive to the store which is about 20 miles I call them first to make sure they have what I need. In the past it was like everything I needed they were out of. Now when they say they are out I just drive the 30 miles the other way and get it from the Rockler store.

I have tried to buy a table saw and a band saw from them and both times I knew just what I could spend. When I went to the store to buy the item they were up selling me. It was just a little more and it was much better was the response I got on both items.

Even when I told them this was my limit they wanted to sell me a different one that was just a little more. After I told them what I could spend, it was save just a little more and then you can get the better one or put it on your credit card.

I got my band saw from Rockler and the table saw on Amazon.
.

[Wade Lippman]

We all need to take a look at not only where we shop but where what we are buying is made. As a country we are cutting our own throats with our WalMart mentality. I have a construction company with 12 laid off employees that can be directly attributed to a loss of manufacturing jobs in my home state. This is happening everywhere.


Totally wrongheaded thinking.
We have to import people to do most of the menial job now; to take a meaningful amount of "manufacturing" back from China we would have to bring in everyone now in Mexico. Is that what you want?

I suppose the alternative is paying American $15/hour to make the junk that goes in Happy Meals, so they can sell for $10 a piece. And then the companies that are actually productive would have to double their wages and be driven out of foreign markets.

A good dose of protectionism will take us right back to 1932.