to clean or not to clean..what do you do?

[Walt Quadrato]

Picked this one up over the weekend..cleaned, so far, with just a tooth brush and soapy water..dried ASAP..Don't know what else to do..Bailey Tool Co. Woonsocket RI #5 Defiance jack plane. I've gone through the archives,through the Walters book and Roger Smith's 2 volume PTAMPIA's and Patricks B&G...info found so far: Joshua Clark found one in 2002.. Leonard Bailey, holder of most all innovative plane patents, was bought out by Stanley a few times. If I've got my dates straight..the first time 1869 or there abouts....he went to work for Stanley but soon quit and formed yet another plane making company. This #5 is from that company, I'm assuming..hole at top of blade..unmarked lever cap..."Defiance" on the chipbreaker, axe logo on the blade. So do I clean it? Tune it? Leave it as it is? consign it to Donnelly's? Anyone else have any information I've not been able to find? One thing for sure..I think it's out of my bottom feeder range :-) ..though, I do love the odd worm screw depth adjustment.
pictures can be seen at: bottom of the page
http://pages.cthome.net/bcrgraphics/tool%20works.html
apologies for the pix..took them out my window a few minutes ago..


walt

[Marc Hills]

Walt:

Can't help you on assessing the collector value of your recent find, which I sense is at the heart of your post. It's an interesting old peice of iron, probably more valuable to a collector than a user.

But I can't help but respond to the broader implications of your question. I'm a user first and a collector only in the sense that I already have more bench planes than I currently need. I just enjoy bringing an old tool back from the brink. Since I gravitate towards bottom feeder type planes (well used Stanleys and the not-so-collectable Fultons, Dunlaps and Craftmans), I've felt free to rehab my tools without too much thought to their value to collectors.

What is acceptable for the user with at least some sensitivity to the tool's heritage?

It almost seems like a philosophical question. I do some things to my old planes that I know would make the purists out there scream with indignation, and yet I see rehabbed planes with well sanded and polished metal surfaces that seem even to me to be sanitized of their vintage character. And yet those aggressively rehabbed planes obviously have appeal, because they are selling like hotcakes over on Woodnet.

[Vince Sandy]

Hi Walt, congrats on your new find. It sounds like it is a rare plane that could have collector value. My recommendation is to do nothing else to it until you find out the value. I took a quick visit to your web site and it appears that you are familiar with old tools and the process of rehabbing them. I would dig a little deeper before doing anything else to that plane; you could have a significant tool there.

I'm in the same camp as Marc in that I buy old tools to use and have ended up with too many. In my search for bottom feeder prices I have ended up with several planes that will need a full rehab. I have had two planes brazed to repair cracks. I have rehabbed several old tools that were in good mechanical condition but had lost most of their finish. I stipped the old japaning off and re-japaned with original asphaltum based japaning (sp?). I really enjoy the process of bringing the tool back to life.

Let us know what else you find out.

Vince in NC

[Greg Wease]

Walt--

I'd treat this one very gingerly as it certainly has collector value. Sellens and Walters disagree slightly on the dates of manufacture (Sellens 1876-1879; Walters 1872-1879) by the Bailey Wringing Machine Company of Woonsocket, RI . Sellens indicates they appear in the 1879 Stanley catalog, complete with the battleaxe logo in the illustrations, and were not in the 1884 version. There is no mention of the number produced but I'd guess they're pretty rare. The 2003 Walters price guide lists them at $350-750.

Congratulations on a nice find.

Greg Wease

P.S. Please stop outbidding Jaygdub on eBay!

[Walt Quadrato]

I've gone though the Walters book and the Sellens and a bunch of on-line sources. one thing I can't figure out...was Leonard Bailey involved with the Bailey Plane Co? There are so many tidbits that would support this but nothing concrete...why would Stanley have Bailey Woonsocket planes in their catalog...who patented the odd blade adjustment design used in them...were at Baileys related...what about the "Defiance" designation...L.Bailey..bailey woonsocket...stanley? I've been through DATAMP over & over with no success. Still don't know that I'd keep it..after all, it's not a scraper ;) ..but I'd at least like to know more about it's history...
BTW...what have we bid on???..
thanks

walt q

[Greg Wease]

OK Walt, here's a history lesson (see Sellens page 22):

As I understand it, Stanley purchased Bailey's basic patents for planes, scrapers and spoke shaves as well as assets of the Bailey, Chany and Co. in 1869 and put Leonard Bailey in charge of its new plane division. Manufacturing moved from Boston where Bailey was originally located to New Britain, Conn. Bailey remained with Stanley until 1875 and then started Leonard Bailey and Company in Hartford, Conn within a year as a competitor to Stanley.

In 1878 the Bailey Wringing Machine Company of Woonsocket, R.I. bought Leonard Bailey and Company and moved it to Woonsocket. This is where the plane you asked about was apparently manufactured. I don't know if Selden Bailey who founded the wringing machine company was related to Leonard Bailey. Bailey oversaw operations in Woonsocket. At any rate, this seems to have been a short lived arrangement and the L. Bailey and Company name reappeared in 1880 and Stanley then acquired the "Defiance" product line from him the same year. Leonard Bailey continued to manufacture his "Victor" planes but they were sold by Stanley as his agent. In 1884 Stanley purchased the entire L. Bailey plane business and Leonard got out of the plane business entirely and moved into the printing business.

So in short, Bailey's companies were purchased by Stanley twice and by the Woonsocket company once and Leonard worked for Stanley for awhile after the first purchase. Stanley had the Defiance planes in its catalog including the battleaxe logo but I don't think Stanley's catalog mentioned Woonsocket. It's all pretty confusing. All of the adjustment features of your plane were patented by Leonard Bailey and I think the Defiance name was his originally his as well.

I collect Keen Kutter planes, primarily the "K" series manufactured by Stanley. We have bid against each other on more than one of these. At this point I have more planes than I should and I have slowed down my purchases. I do use most of my planes, many of which I have restored from rusty hulk to fine worker. Maybe one day I'll consider selling some.

Hope this helps!
Greg