What's best in a plow plane?

[Jim Visser]

I'm getting into handtool woodworking and I'm thinking of getting a plow plane. I love the Veritas version, but it's way beyond my pocketbook. Not sure about the user value of some of the old Stanley 41-44s or the 46 that I see on the used market.

1. Is the Veritas really worth it at $179; $279 with all the cutters?

2. Anant makes a #52 for $139 with all the cutters. Anybody use one? Is it any good?

3. Should I keep looking for a good old Stanley?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks! :)

Jim

[Barry Vabeach]

Jim, if you post this in the forum Neanderthal Haven, you will get plenty of responses. My 2 cents, is that most LV specialty planes - like the plow plane, are head and shoulders over the old Stanley. OTOH, if you are only going to use it occasionally, you can get pretty good results with stanley or the wooden plow planes.

[Joe Cunningham]

I got a Veritas for Christmas and love it. I've used on a few projects already (grooves for box bottoms) and it works really well. One of my next projects will have a raised panel door and I plan to use it on that as well.

I did not even bother looking at the old tools in this case. Most of my other bench planes are $20-50 Stanleys I got either at consignment shops or auction sites, but I just didn't feel like I know enough about plow planes to fettle after buying or reliably pick out gems.

[Rob Luter]

I have the Veritas small plow, an old Stanley #78, and an old Stanley #46. If I had the money to spend again I'd have only the #46 and a new set of blades. The #46 will do everything #78 and the Veritas will do, plus much more.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Veritas small plow. While I use it only ocassionaly it works great. I thought it was the be all and end all until I used a skewed blade #46 I picked up at a yard sale this summer. The skewed blade cuts with much less effort as well as helping to pull the fence tight against the workpiece. I paid $14.00 for the #46 (with one blade) and a brand new set of blades can be had for about $110.00. When the economy picks back up I'll order a set. My Veritas (with all cutters) was more than twice that cost. I know I got a deal on the #46 but even at normal street prices it's a lot of plane for the money. Pat Leach speaks very highly of it on the Blood and Gore site: (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm)

He says: This plane is a fabulous worker, much better than the #45 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan6.htm#num45). The simple act of skewing the iron makes this plane plane dados around the #45 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan6.htm#num45). It also does a fine job of cutting cross grain rabbets, a common function when making lipped drawer fronts. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, and are given the chance to buy one, and you dig working wood with handtools, buy this tool! A good working example of this plane will cost less than the number of wooden dado planes alone that it replaces. And, unlike the wooden dado planes, this one won't warp on ya, which is the kiss of death for wooden dados (warped wooden dados will have your dados in a bind).

The Veritas does have some nice features though. The compact size is easy to use on smaller work and the collet style fence adjustments are far superior to the thumb screws on the Stanley.

I'll say again, the Veritas small plow is really nice, but from a versatility standpoint I think a #46 has it beat.

My $0.02 (before taxes) Your mileage may vary.

[David Keller NC]

Jim - My $0.02. What I'd say is that it depends a lot on you. Some very much do not like "used" tools and will only purchase new. If that's the case, the Veritas is your ticket - far superior adjustments than the Clifton version of the Stanleys, or the Anant Record copies.

For those that do like antiques, the Stanely metal versions (45, 46, 47, etc...), the Record 043 and 044, and the Seigley models are excellent tools. I do not personally care for the 45's "real" purpose, which is a more limited molding-set-in-a-box than the #55, but I think it's an excellent plow plane.

And while I own several of the metal antiques, I much prefer wooden plow planes. There's a couple of reasons - one's weight. Most wooden plows are quite a bit lighter than their metal cousins, and unlike a smoothing plane, you don't need weight in a joinery plane. Their fences are also wider, and in some cases, the irons are set at a steeper angle, and they are definitely much, much sturdier and thicker. Their handles are also quite a bit beefier and more comfortable than the antique metal Stanley and Record versions, though not the Seigleys, which have a very substantial wooden grip.

The final question is what's your time worth? If you want something now, then the Veritas or Clifton is your best bet. If you're willing to troll e-bay, flea markets, SMC classifieds, etc..., and know what you're looking for, you can get a fair amount of savings over the Veritas, though perhaps only a $150 or so over the full-bore Lee Valley offering.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,
You say your are getting into hand tool wood working. You do not mention if you have used hand planes and have had any experience with making adjustments beyond the adjusters provided.

I noticed you also left the Stanley 45 and 55 off your list.

I have not used any of the others, but it is likely there has not been a plane made that does not have a learning curve.

With the Veritas model, there is likely not a fettling curve. On my Stanley 45s, there has been a need to do a little work to get better performance. The 55 is likely the plane with the steepest learning curve. It seems most of them were only taken out of their boxes to show them off and lose parts. They can do some fine work, but one who has never used a plane before should steer away from this as a first plane to "check it out."

The Veritas plow plane looks like a well made tool. Compared to the Stanley 45, it is likely also easier to use. I do see it looks like the rod length is limited.

The Stanley 45 has a wider variety of blades available. I use mine a lot for decorative beads and flutes. It also makes good rabbets and grooves. I do not use it for dados. I find using a saw and/or a chisel is easier. This is where a skewed blade would work better.

Surely, your plans and ambitions are different than mine. My situation is likely different. Just a year ago, I was working at a pretty good paying job that allowed me to purchase most of what I wanted. It did not allow me the time to use all that I had. Now being retired, there is time to putter around and play with the toys. There is not much money to buy new ones or to make mistakes buying much of anything.

Learning to use a tool will help to learn the next one. Learning to use even the simplest of plow planes effectively will be of help when one upgrades. It will also bring a greater understanding and appreciation for the better made tools.

Finally, tell us about the kinds of projects where you will be using this plane.

Welcome to the slope of confusion,

jim

--Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation.
– Edward R. Murrow

[Michael Faurot]

1. Is the Veritas really worth it at $179; $279 with all the cutters?


While I don't own one yet, I intend to get one. While it is somewhat expensive, it's better than the ones I have (see below).



2. Anant makes a #52 for $139 with all the cutters. Anybody use one? Is it any good?
I have this one and hate it. The fence on mine came out of square to the rest of the plane. I have been able to work around it a bit by adding a wooden runner and then beveling that to compensate for the stupid fence. I would strongly advise you to avoid this.

I also picked up one of the wooden plows from Japan Woodworker (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=98.120.4033&dept_id=13602). It does work, but has no depth stop and is oriented such that you either need to be left handed or pull it.

[Dave Spaeder]

After a long time lurking here, I had to throw in my opinion on this one. I can't claim that it's actually worth a whole .02.

I am a huge fan of the Stanley 45 as a plow plane. When I bought mine, I justified the purchase by regaling the wife with all that it would let me do. So far, I've only used it as a plow plane, but I've found a need for it on every project I've done since I got it. It works great, and I've never regretted buying it.

Not that I've ever regretted buying a tool.

[John Keeton]

Dave, you have been lurking nearly a year - and just now throwing in!!??!! These guys usually can rouse an opinion out of just about anyone! You must be one easy goin' guy.

Good to hear from you.

[lowell holmes]

On the wooden plow plane, a block inder the arms that hold the fence will do quite well as a depth stop. I had to size the irons to match my chisel widths.

[Chuck Tringo]

The price definitely looks right on the one at Japan Woodworker one...how does it work other than the depth stop ?




I also picked up one of the wooden plows from Japan Woodworker (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=98.120.4033&dept_id=13602). It does work, but has no depth stop and is oriented such that you either need to be left handed or pull it.

[Pedro Reyes]

My $0.02

For me, in one word, "simplicity".

I love my plain and simple Record 50, I am of the mentality of "special tool for the special purpose" over the single multi-tool with super complex feautures.

These can be had for around $100 or less in good condition and with a complete set of cutters, and for less than $25 with 1 or no cutters.

/p

[Michael Faurot]

The price definitely looks right on the one at Japan Woodworker one...how does it work other than the depth stop ?

If you're left handed, or like pulling planes, and want to bodge a depth stop to it--it might work for you. While I don't it loath it the way I hate the Anant 52 I have, I don't really like it either. I wish the Veritas Plow had been available when I was looking to buy, but it wasn't and now I've got two plow planes that sort-of work but neither of which I like to use.

[Jim Koepke]

I also picked up one of the wooden plows from Japan Woodworker. It does work, but has no depth stop and is oriented such that you either need to be left handed or pull it.

If you're left handed, or like pulling planes, and want to bodge a depth stop to it--it might work for you.

Looking at the picture, it looks like the fence could be switched around to the other side.

Is there some reason that wouldn't work?

jim

[Chuck Tringo]

Thanks, it just so happens that I am left handed so I may have to give it a try :)


If you're left handed, or like pulling planes, and want to bodge a depth stop to it--it might work for you. While I don't it loath it the way I hate the Anant 52 I have, I don't really like it either. I wish the Veritas Plow had been available when I was looking to buy, but it wasn't and now I've got two plow planes that sort-of work but neither of which I like to use.

[Derek Cohen]

The main ploughs I use are the Veritas and the Record/Rapier #043. I recently sold my Record #044.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Articles/Veritas%20Skew%20Rabbet%20and%20Beader/Ploughinggroove.jpg

The Veritas is by far the most sophisticated design, and best finished of the lot. It is the easiest to set up and use. All the others can be made to cut grooves just as well, but they require more attention to detail as they are not as simple to use. However they will do the job, and that is what counts.

My review of the Veritas Small Plow plane is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Small%20Plow%20Plane.html It was compared with the #044 and #043.

The #043 is a great little plough for small work, such as boxes.

The Stanley #45 and #46 combination planes are also excellent, but you have to find them first in decent condition. I think that the #45 is very underrated as a grooving plane, and even as a dado plane. It has nickers on both sides of the blades plus blade adjustment.

The #46 (skew bladed plough) is a plane I have had much trouble with since my previous example was difficult to set up. Its replacement is soon due to get a run, and I will be in a better position to comment. I was recently planing raised panels with the Veritas Skew Rabbet plane and was aware how much easier the skew blades performed across the grain compared to their straight counterparts. Still, one feature I dislike on the #46 is the absence of a blade adjuster. It can be very fiddly to set up.

Comes Winter, I shall finally get a chance to finish this one ...

http://woodcentral.com.ldh0138.uslec.net/apix/hamler1b.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Michael Faurot]

Looking at the picture, it looks like the fence could be switched around to the other side.

Is there some reason that wouldn't work?


Yes, it can be switched, but it won't let you do that as it comes out of the box. You'd have to shave/sand/scrap the posts on the opposite sides as they're thicker for some reason. Also, the fence has an asymmetric shape, such that it slopes down a bit on one side to be a bit more ergonomic. If you flip it around the other way, then you wind up with the squared edge in the back where you'd put your left hand to brace the fence.

Of course the posts and the fence can be easily modified, should one so choose.

[Steve Hamlin]

43s for me - Stanley and Record. Think Twins as in Schwarzeneger and DeVito.
Haven't tried Veritas' offerings, but they certainly look swish.

[George Moore]

I have the Record 043 and 044 and like them both. As Derek said the 044 in not up to the new Veritas but it does a nice job as does the 043 on boxes and other small projects. And together they only set me back $110.00.

George