Chain saw trouble

[Randy Hoch]

Ok, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to small engines,etc. I'm having problems with my Stihl M361 (<1 yr old). It runs like a banshee until it runs out of gas, and then I can't start it after refilling. I have tried no choke, warm choke, etc. and still nothing. My dealer is suggesting that I stop the saw at the first sputter, before it runs dry. That seems to work, but I should not have to do that right?? Don't you guys run em till they totally die and get along fine?? I'm wondering if I have a lemon in need of carburator replacement which I expect should be a warranty deal.

BTW, I've replaced gas a couple of times, replaced the container, etc. I did have a fuel moisture problem early on, which was remedied, but come to think of it, I had no troubles before that point. That was quite awhile ago.

Any ideas/wisdom would be appreciated.

Randy

[Jeff Nicol]

I am not sure, but does that saw have the easy start system on it? I think they are different than what I have. My cousin has one and if you try and start it by pulling the cord fast like regular saws it floods it out and it starts hard. But if you just pull it slow like it is supposed to then after a couple of soft slow pulls it starts right up. Not sure how it works but I think it builds up compression and fuel mix to start. Just a thought, but I am not sure.

Jeff

[Richard Madison]

Randy,
Your dealer is right. We shut 'em off at first sputter and check fuel level. If you still have fuel, then it could be a carb, or fuel filter, or fuel tank vent filter problem. Recently found that my fuel tank vent filter was clogged, so no air in and no gas out.

[Randy Hoch]

Jeff,
It does have the easy start. I'll try pulling it slowly. I guess I'm just used to letting it rip. I'll see if that'll make a difference.

Randy

[Randy Hoch]

Richard,
I'll have to get out the manual to see where the fuel vent filter is! Would that cause my saw to run fine until refueling, and then somehow not get primed.? I thought that since the cold saw starts pretty well, that maybe it was flooding when warm but I can't tell.
Randy

[Jake Helmboldt]

Randy, one more reason to shut down as soon as it sputters is the fact that saws are 2-stroke engines. That means the cylinder lubricity is in the fuel so by running it dry you are running it out of cylinder lubricant. I don't know how detrimental it is, but for a nice saw I'll err on the side of caution. And if it makes restarting easier, all the more reason.

As for starting, if you run it bone dry then the fuel system needs to be primed when you refill/restart. Some saws can be very finnicky in terms of flooding or fouling. If it is only when you run it dry then the easy fix is...don't. Otherwise it may be a carb issue, but you say it runs/starts fine otherwise?

[Maylon Harvey]

Randy,

What your dealer said. I've been cutting wood for over 35 years and I always try to shut her off just as soon as she sputters. Sometimes even before. After you have used a particular saw enough you will know it's sound. Just as it's running out of gas the mixture will lean (more air in the mixture) and thus the RPM will increase and you will hear this. Seconds later it will start to sputter. If you can get her shut off then it will normally start on the 1st pull after refilling. At least that's been my take on the subject.

[Randy Hoch]

Jake,
Yes, it starts/runs fine when cold. One fill of gas makes for a rather quick session of chainsawing. Plus, I'm in a pretty piss poor mood after these episodes. I didn't buy a reputable pro-grade saw for this kind of trouble. On the other hand, stopping at first sputter is probably not that big of a deal once I get into that groove. I appreciate the ideas and comments.
Randy

[Steve Schlumpf]

Randy - have to agree with everyone who suggest stopping the saw when you first notice it sputter. I got in the habit of checking the fuel level (Husky saw and you can see the fuel level in the handle) between cuts. Once I noticed the level getting low - stop and refuel. Trying to restart a saw after running it dry is always a very touchy thing - way to easy to flood the carb! And you are right - can ruin your whole mood when you are miles from anywhere and can't get your saw started again! DAMHIKT!!!

[john taliaferro]

i have a 460 ,was thinking about putting marbles in it, lot of times i stop it to just look. you tougher than me . john t

[Nathan Hawkes]

I have a 361 and a husky 394; with both, I have to stop at the first sign of a sputter, or its pull and pull and pull....then flooded. Its even easier with my big saw than with the 361!!!
Keep safe sawing!

[Randy Hoch]

John,
I'm not sure I know what you mean about marbles.
Randy

[Richard Madison]

Randy,
Fuel tank vent filter is under one of the covers, at end of small tube from the fuel tank. If clogged, the saw will start, run for one or two seconds, and die. Not your problem.

Not mentioned above (unless I missed it), if the saw is cutting full throttle when it runs out of gas, as the mixture leans it is possible to melt a piston, or at least damage it. Probably does not happen frequently, or we would hear more about it, but still possible.

[Ted Calver]

Interesting thread. I have typically let my saws run dry at the end of the season to try and avoid problems caused by old fuel...maybe i'll reconsider

[Burt Alcantara]

I must be lucky. I run my 390 until it stops then fill it up and keep going.

Burt

[Jason Mikits]

I have typically let my saws run dry at the end of the season to try and avoid problems caused by old fuel...maybe i'll reconsider

You shouldn't reconsider, it is the correct thing to do if your saw is going to sit so the fuel doesn't gum up your carb. When you run them dry you should do it at idle speed and not at full throttle. As mentioned previously, if run dry at full throttle it runs lean and COULD ruin your piston/jug.

To the original question, as many others have already said, turn it off before it is completely out of gas. Very easy to know from the tell tale sound. The 361 is a nice little saw. Good luck.

[Chris Barnett]

Have a Stihl MS310 and sometimes have the same problem, even when it has fuel and I start it cold. Have found that the engine is very tempermental with the choke and it is easily flooded. I start at full choke until it kicks the first time, then to 1/2, with my fingers off the throttle. That seems to do the trick. I do go extra heavy on the 50:1 for lubrication safety so that perhaps contributes to my problem as well. I agree that the Stihl is a real mood changer though; when it doesn't want to start, it makes my day, but when it runs, it cuts like butter with an agressive chain.

[alex carey]

according to the manual if the chainsaw is going to sit for more than three months the tank needs to be emptied. just a heads up.

[Richard Madison]

An alternative to running the engine dry is the use of StaBil or other fuel stabilizer, which is said to keep the fuel in good condition for a year or more. I use it in all small engine fuel, all year round. One advantage, besides eliminating some hassle, is that you sometimes do not know exactly when the lawn mowing season is over for the year, or when the next opportunity to score some turning wood might happen. If you carry a fully fueled chainsaw behind the driver's seat of your pickup, you might be a woodturner. If your pickup automatically veers toward the sound of another chainsaw, you might be a woodturner.

[Randy Hoch]

Alex,
I don't ever foresee my chainsaw sitting idle for 3 months! This is just too damn much fun. I thought this hobby was the perfect avenue for artistic expression, etc. What I didn't realize is the wood acquisition aspect satisfies my inner scavenger.... Talk about a win-win situation!
Randy

[Tom Steyer]

Randy,

The small 2-stroke engines of chain saws all have a "pumper" type carburetor. That is - there is a set of diaphrams in the carb that are actuated by the change in negative (vacuum) to positive pressure in the engine crankcase with every cycle of the engine. The carb uses this pressure differential to draw gas from the tank to the carb, and to open a needle valve to allow the gas to enter the carb chambers. When you shut off the saw with some fuel still in the tank, the line from tank to carb remains full of fuel, just waiting for you to pull the starter. If you run the tank dry, then the engine must be pulled thru several cycles in order to provide the vacuum to pull fuel from the tank to the carb. The problem is that you have no way of knowing when the line is full, and fuel is being delivered to the carb. So, when you engage the choke and pull the starter it will take several pulls to get the fuel from tank to carb - but one or two "extra" pulls with the choke fully engaged will often result in a flood condition, since as soon as fuel gets to the carb additional pulls will quickly flood the engine if the choke remains closed.

Some engines are much more prone to this problem than others. If the engine runs properly under normal conditions, then it is probably the easiest to try to shut it off before it runs completely out of fuel. My small Stihl is finicky when it comes to this issue, and I have learned over the years to compensate and only use the choke for a couple of pulls after refueling from dry, unless the engine is cold in which case it will take more .

[Richard Madison]

Tom nailed it. Choke until the engine fires ONE time. Then open choke and open throttle and crank.

[Jeff Nicol]

I have 2 stihls, like I have said before. They both get used a lot and I have never thought about trying to stop the saw when it starts to run out of gas. When they stop they stop. If you were to look in the tank there is still a little fuel mix left even then. I just fill it back up and they usually pop right off they are still warm. If it is really cold out I might have to choke it once. Then put it on have choke and it will start right off. If that does not work I hold the throttle wide open and give it a pull or 2 and I am off and running. The only time I have had any trouble is when the air cleaner gets plugged with sawdust. My Dad has had Stihl saws for 35 years and I for almost 20 and the most I have ever done was replace the oil cap on the older one and the clutch bell once in 17 years! The newer farm boss is my favorite now and it just cuts and cuts!

They do go out of tune once in a while but not real bad, was it tuned when you got it? My dealer starts it runs it tunes it and makes sure it is what you want.

Hope all the comments have helped.

Jeff

[john taliaferro]

fill the tank with marbles it will run out of gas sooner.Iam old.