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View Full Version : Advice on DIY Insulation for Ducts and Crawlspace??



Craig Summers
01-21-2009, 4:16 PM
We bought an existing house and I have been slowly upgrading various portions of it. The current project is an insulation upgrade: ductwork and crawlspace

I created goals for my project
1) Improve the living conditions of first floor
2) Reduce winter/summer energy costs
3) Add utility lighting to crawlspace and attic

Existing conditions:
> Ventilated dirt crawlspace with heavy (?mil) plastic sheeting on ground. Max clearance of 3’ from dirt to joist. Joists are 2x10. There are 2 areas, 25x30 and 12x24.
> Exposed metal ducts with partial sealing with old cloth ‘Duck tape’, main trunk/branches in crawlspace, return through attic. Trunk is: 24’ of 8x24 and 25’ of 8x18, hangs 2” from joists. Branches are mostly 6” pipe, either 5’ or 20’ long that connect to 3¼x14 wall chase duct, mostly running up inside the parallel joist spacing. Attic return duct is 8x24 - 14’ and 8x14 – 7’.
> Water pipes ¾“ dia copper, cold water with foam wrap, hot water with thin fiberglass wrap.
> Crawlspace existing insulation is R-11 stapled to the ceiling (floor), minus the fiberglass. Might be R-0.5 left in place?
> One branch duct is sealed off (dud) with its wall chase duct blocked off, and another branch duct goes to what I think is a dead end, as I cannot locate what register it should go to upstairs (either an interior wall or closet floor).
> The first floor is all wood floors, so they stay cold in the winter.

Basic plan:
a) Add 7 switched lights to crawlspace, and 2 switched lights to attic. (convenience for future)
b) Seal all ductwork with foil tape
c) Add 3” R-8 Fiberglass Insulation Duct Wrap (it’s also the new code)
d) Seal all electrical/plumbing/duct penetrations
e) Add R-30 Kraft insulation batts to crawlspace ceiling, its $0.51/sq ft here at the Borg (cheaper than local distributors). Kraft facing to be installed against the floor.
f) Possible heat tape for plumbing pipes

I did read the spec and instructions from CertainTeed for their duct wrap. I know to add more inches to the length of insulation when cutting. (For 3” wrap its +11.5 for rectangular and +17 for round) Then trim the fiberglass back 2” for foil overlap.

I have already started the project, and have bought the foil duct sealing tape, the duct wrap, and the reinforced duct wrap tape via McCormicks (http://www.mccormickinsulation.com/). They were very helpful for a homeowner, just make sure you specify that you are looking for 3” R-8 Duct Wrap, they might have it in stock. My local store got confused and heard homeowner, and said ‘not in stock’. One of their sister stores in Hagerstown MD (3 hour round trip) had it in stock, and showed me that the local one did have it in stock there. I got a discount for my time/trouble. Normally expect to pay @ $ 104 per 4’x50’ roll of R-8.

I have put in the 7 lights for the crawlspace. I have removed all existing duck tape at the trunk and return, and replaced with foil tape. I have sealed all seams in the trunk line.
I have found that using cheap Window cleaner is helpful when cleaning the duct surfaces, the wetness makes it easier to clean the dust, it mitigates airborne dust, and dries quickly. I have had to remove some acorn shells from the top of the duct, so don’t be surprised to find stuff on your ducts.

Now for some specific questions:

Has anyone tackled this before? Any pointers?

Now I am starting to insulate the trunk line. Has anyone ever cut insulation to fit a 6” Top Take-off boot? Is there a template out there? I know that a simple 6” dia duct needs insulation @ 36” rough length (6*Pi+17 to be exact) less the 2” overlap cutback. So a piece for these connections is similar.
http://ec1-images.acehardwareoutlet.com/70/products/pix/261018.jpg
I have 12 or so of these to do, and limited space to do it. If there is no template, I am planning on removing the one dud takeoff and use that as a template. And the same question for the transition 6” round to 3¼x14, otherwise for that I might buy and return a ‘sample’ from the Borgs.

When the duct first comes from furnace into the crawlspace, it goes through a block wall. When I put insulation on the duct, what should I do with the ‘open end’ of the insulation? Should it be left alone, taped to the duct, or stapled to new blocking?

One of my fears/questions is whether I need to add heater tape to the plumbing pipes after I insulate. I don’t know if the loss of ambient heating would necessitate removing the existing pipe insulation, adding tape, and re-insulating. I know it won’t hurt, just more time.

I see something written about using staples to connect duct wrap. Should I use that (in addition to reinforced tape) and if so, what kind of stapler is it? I assume it is something special, if it can staple from one side with nothing to drive the staples into.

Lee Schierer
01-22-2009, 10:40 AM
My only suggestion would be to use the self limiting (semi conductor) type of heat tapes. They are much more durable and cost effective than the thermostatically controlled types.

Chris Padilla
01-22-2009, 6:54 PM
Craig,

That is quite a post to take in all at once. You might consider breaking it up but I'll give it a shot since I did this not long ago.

Check out this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=71259) in which I redid some ductwork under my house. I later on had all the bays filled with open-cell spray foam.

I used Reflectex to wrap all my ductowork in rather than fiberglass batts. I think it holds up better over time (certainly, it is more pricey) and has a much better R-value than fiberglass.

Craig Summers
01-22-2009, 10:52 PM
My only suggestion would be to use the self limiting (semi conductor) type of heat tapes. They are much more durable and cost effective than the thermostatically controlled types.

Lee

can it be presumed that the thermostatically controlled types are the ones sold in the Borgs?

Craig

Craig Summers
01-22-2009, 11:11 PM
Craig,

That is quite a post to take in all at once. You might consider breaking it up but I'll give it a shot since I did this not long ago.

Check out this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=71259) in which I redid some ductwork under my house. I later on had all the bays filled with open-cell spray foam.

I used Reflectex to wrap all my ductowork in rather than fiberglass batts. I think it holds up better over time (certainly, it is more pricey) and has a much better R-value than fiberglass.

The problem is that i have been thinking through this project for a while, and have now gotten into it, so i felt the need to spew out some background. Plus i've been quiet on this board for awhile. If i have more issues, then i will break them up

I thought awhile about Foil Bubblewrap vs Fiberglass for awhile. I used the FBW in another part of the house, and i know it slightly cheaper than fiberglass ($ 0.38/sf online). My brother used it on some of his ducts. When I was researching the issue, i did see some code issue related to use on ducts. So i decided to go fiberglass with the shiny wrapper. And yeah a crawlspace is not the most inviting place to serve tea and crumpets.

After reading your dilemna on the duct replacement, i thought a bit about my branch ducts, and realized that i have branches 6" dia duct (28 sq in) feeding into the 3 1/4 x 14 'stud openings' chase duct (46 sq in). Not the best scenario for efficient air movement, and might help to explain why one side of the house is colder in winter.

Ohh and yeah i need to post some pics, its not real until then.

Dan Mages
01-23-2009, 8:31 AM
Consider recessed lights for the crawl space. In tight spaces like this, hanging lights always get in the way when you need to do work.

2 bits.

Lee Schierer
01-23-2009, 9:13 AM
Lee

can it be presumed that the thermostatically controlled types are the ones sold in the Borgs?

Craig

I've seen both types. The semi conductor types are sold off a roll, can be cut to length and you attach a plug to one end. Here's a link to one type, but there are others. Self Regulating heat tape (http://www.deanbennett.com/wintergard-heat-tape-prices.htm) The advantage of these types of tapes is that they can be cut to length and wrapped over themselves. the provide uniform heat along the length only where it is needed. (cold areas allow it to conduct, warm areas don't conduct as well)

Do a google search for "self regulating heat tape" and you will find lots of sources.

Thomas Bank
01-23-2009, 10:00 AM
b) Seal all ductwork with foil tape

Forget any sort of tape to seal ducts - use duct mastic. The nature of a duct - being heated up and cooled constantly - dries out adhesive and the tape will fail over time.


f) Possible heat tape for plumbing pipes

Is the concern that with everything else sealed up the crawlspace will freeze and this will affect the pipes? It would depend on whether the crawlspace would really go below freezing - which I'd be more concerned about if you were in Wisconsin than Virginia. Piping along outside walls would be more at risk, obviously. Depending on where the piping is located in relation to the joists, I'd see if I could enclose the piping in insulation as well - perhaps "framing" around it to do so. I also am a big fan of Armaflex pipe insulation over the cheaper versions.

Dan Keeling
01-23-2009, 12:15 PM
+1 for the use of mastic to seal ducts.

I used to work for an organization that did insulating/weatherizing work for low income clients. Typically we would stuff the box sill areas around the perimeter with unfaced R-19 or R-11 to fill the cavity. Then we would install R-11 between each joist bay, running vertically from the underside of the floor sheathing, down to grade, then 2' out from the foundation. The flanges would then be stapled together. Essentially this created a solid blanket. Using this method greatly reduces the amount of heat loss.