Help with Pocket Hole jig

[Burt Alcantara]

I have the Kreg system. Everything joint I make is out of whack and my 90s are usually 85 or 110. I have all the clamps and then some. Is there a secret trick to getting these things to align & stay correctly?

I've got a bunch of shop cabinets to make and I'd prefer using the pocket hole jig because it's fast.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Burt

[Ben Franz]

Burt-

Assuming all cuts are square before you start drilling, either the board is crooked in the jig when you drill it or you aren't clamping the butt joint together tightly enough when you install the screws. I found that it helps to mount the jig to a base then clamp to the bench before drilling. The Kreg kit has a decent face clamp that looks like a modified pair of Vise-Grips - that keeps it all tight while you drive the screws. Not much else to go wrong with this system.

One other possibility is that the local curvature of the universe has distorted the space-time continuum in your shop and 90s are now 85s, etc. I'm guessing that isn't it, though.

Good luck.

[Joe Scharle]

I have the Kreg system. Everything joint I make is out of whack and my 90s are usually 85 or 110. I have all the clamps and then some. Is there a secret trick to getting these things to align & stay correctly?

I've got a bunch of shop cabinets to make and I'd prefer using the pocket hole jig because it's fast.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Burt

I have to ask the obvious: Are your butt ends square and 90 degs?

[Kevin Godshall]

I use pocket hole jointery ALOT....... never seen it pull anything out of square...... All it can do it tighten and hold what is already there.

Before you throw out the baby with the bathwater, I would look to make sure you machine set ups are correct. My face frames would never lay flat at first, and then I found out the miter saw was cutting at 88 1/2 degrees.

More often then not, I'm surprising impressed at how much of my work is square when using pocket holes as opposed to just clamping/gluing.

Only one bit of caution on the pocket holes......... do not over tighten the screw when joining pcs together. Tight is tight, over tight is asking for problems. Either hand tighten the last half turn, or make sure you know what clutch setting you need on your driver.

[frank shic]

get steve clardy's pocket cutter, or a porter cable pocket cutter off of ebay. the routed pockets have worked a lot better for me. i still use the kreg for odd jobs or jigs that don't require absolutely flush edges. i have found that the kreg will work better if you clamp the joint horizontally and vertically.

[Prashun Patel]

I use the Kreg K3 pretty regularly. Don't give up on it yet.

Use a good faceclamp to keep the mating edges flush.
Then run yr finger over the joint to make sure it's flush enough for you.
Stray sawdust or ragged edges can keep the joint out of flush.

Use at least 2 holes in every joint.

Bear down on the driver a little to get the screw to poke out of the leaving piece and into the mating piece. Then drive it 1/2 way. Do this for each screw. Chuck yr driver to a 3 or 4 out of 16. Then drive each screw home. Doing it this way makes the screws drive true and prevents twisting.

Anyway, that way works for me.

[Richard Venturelli]

Never had this problem with the Kreg and use it all the time. Like others have already stated, make sure youre starting out with squared ends and clamping the two when driving your screws.

[Sue Wise]

You will need to make sure that your work surface is flat. (DAMHIK) If not, you could get the kind of results you are getting.

-Sue

[Burt Alcantara]

Part of the problem stems from the driving. I get the clamps as tight as possible. When I drive the screws in that's usually where the joints slip. I've tried using 90 braces. That works sometime, usually when I can get them set well and the brace is not in the way.

I've got a small clamp shelf that I'll try it on.

Thanks for your help,
Burt

[Bill White]

Just assembled aleg/apron set for a table I'm building. Used dowels AND Kreg pocket screws. Glued in the dowels, slammed home the screws, and the darned thing checked out on the diagonals dead on.
Love my Kreg, but ya gotta have the parts cut right.
Bill

[Bruce Wrenn]

Part of the problem stems from the driving. I get the clamps as tight as possible. When I drive the screws in that's usually where the joints slip. I've tried using 90 braces. That works sometime, usually when I can get them set well and the brace is not in the way.

I've got a small clamp shelf that I'll try it on.

Thanks for your help,
BurtAre you using fine thread, or coarse thread screws. I use fine thread in over 90% of my work. Just don't over tighten them and strip out holes. Stock has to be cut square and edges square to faces. Also, let screws cut their own way. Don't force them.

[Kevin Godshall]

Part of the problem stems from the driving. I get the clamps as tight as possible. When I drive the screws in that's usually where the joints slip. I've tried using 90 braces. That works sometime, usually when I can get them set well and the brace is not in the way.

I've got a small clamp shelf that I'll try it on.

Thanks for your help,
Burt

If I'm reading this right...... are you getting creep side to side? I've seen, read about, realized, that there is creep up and down, but never experienced or heard about side to side.

Is this what you are having trouble with?

[lowell holmes]

Can you post pics so we can see? I've never had the problem. Your ends have to be square to start with.

[Burt Alcantara]

I get creep in all directions. I also use the Kreg screws that came with the System. I believe a lot of the problem comes from clamping, or lack thereof. In cases where I can get a good tight grip using additional clamps (K-bodies, c-clamps, vise-grips) I won't get the creep but a 90 with panels is impossible.

Burt

[Rick Hubbard]

I get creep in all directions. I also use the Kreg screws that came with the System. I believe a lot of the problem comes from clamping, or lack thereof. In cases where I can get a good tight grip using additional clamps (K-bodies, c-clamps, vise-grips) I won't get the creep but a 90 with panels is impossible.

Burt

Over several years I’d like to imagine that I’ve had just about everything go wrong that COULD go wrong when making joints with the Kreg tool.

Here are the most common problems I have encountered:

1. The ends of the stock are not cut PRECISELY square. Even just a slight variation in square-ness will telegraph to the opposite end of the joint (the longer the piece the more noticeable it will be). Whether you are cutting the stock with a miter-saw or a table saw, make 100% sure the cuts are square.
2. The edge of the stock you are butting up against is not square. If the table saw blade is not set to EXACTLY 90 degrees to the table OR ,if you are running the pieces through a jointer, the cutters are not correctly aligned or the fence is out of whack you will get something like racking.
3. The “creep” you describe can be caused by three different things:
a. The two pieces of stock you are joining are not exactly the same thickness. When this happens the face frame clamp (you ARE using one, aren’t you???? If not THAT is the problem) will not grip both oieces and one piece may move when you drive the screw.

b. It is possible that after you have drilled the mortise that a tiny nubbin of wood may be sticking out of the hole made by the pilot on the bit. If the nubbin is not cleaned off, this can cause the joint to slip.

c. There is also a possibility that you are not drilling the pocket mortise deep enough. Make sure the pilot hole is visible on the end of the stock.

d. As mentioned elsewhere, make sure you do not over-tighten the screws. This is really easy to do if you are using pocket mortises on plywood panels.

Some pictures of the end result of your joining would REALLY be helpful if you can post them.

Rick

[Kevin Godshall]

I get creep in all directions. I also use the Kreg screws that came with the System. I believe a lot of the problem comes from clamping, or lack thereof. In cases where I can get a good tight grip using additional clamps (K-bodies, c-clamps, vise-grips) I won't get the creep but a 90 with panels is impossible.

Burt

Hmmmm, generally, I don't even use a clamp most of the time (although I know I should), and I don't experience that much creep, and none side to side.

Question: Do you start with the pieces together and then introduce the screw, or do you thread the screw throught the pocket and then try to marry the pieces together?

I have never seen any movement in a direction other than the pocket holed piece wanting to raise up a bit as the angled screw cams tight. Never any lateral movement of the stock, and actually, I can't understand how it could. The screw is tight in the pocket (no give for movement) and once it begins boring into the receiving piece, there is no give for movement..........UNLESS..... Are you boring your pockets perpendicular to the edge of the piece or are they angled (just hit me as I'm trying to process this)?

[Burt Alcantara]

A typical problem I have is joining 2 plywood panels. Let's say each panel is 3/4x20x12. I want to join the the 2 long sides together. I have to assume that my cuts are clean and square but I'll double check this going forward.

I don't know the rule for how many screws it takes to cover 20" but for now lets say 6. I'll put the clamp with the peg in somewhere in the middle and make sure the panels are 90 to each other. Once I put the first screw in, I get some drift and the panels are no longer 90.

I use the screws of the appropriate size that came with the kit. Perhaps, I am over tightening. I usually leave the toque selector at warp 9 on my Ryobi and let it rip until it disengages. Is that too much?

I am careful to ensure the collar on the bit is at the correct length.
I've got a few stands to build over the next week so I'll keep at it and yell at you guys when I run into trouble again.

Thanks,
Burt

[Kevin Godshall]

What I did to find the setting on my driver (BTW it's a "4" on my Hitachi 18V), using some scrap material, make a pockethole joint, then using my driver on lowest setting fasten the 2 pieces together. Then I hand tightened the screw to what "felt" right: snug but not cranking on it. Slowly I began increasing torque on the driver, testing it on the screw. After some trial and error, the number 4 seemed to be perfect.

Word of caution: on plywood joints, the layers will give some and let you "overdrive" the screw. Have to be really cautious not to over tighten on ply joints.

I see what you mean now on your joints: using panels to make boxes is different from doing a face frame or moulding joint. I would still check the edge of the panel that I'm putting the pocket holes in. If it is cut at 90 degrees and you pull it tight, it should want to stay at 90. If it is 90 and it is being pulled to 85, you should see a gap either on the top of the joint or the bottom. If this is the case, I would check how you are driving the screws: full bore, pedal to the metal or steady freddy.