Issues with white oak stored outside

[Dewayne Reding]

A SMC member put me onto a lead for some hardwoods. Long story short, a local amateur sawyer is selling some stock so he can move. He has air dry in progress QS white oak that he says was cut a little over a year ago. Much of it is around 7" wide and 10/4. I'm guessing his tarp blew off (if he used one) and its been under snow and ice for at least a few months. He also lives in a flood plain so who knows the real story. I brought a sample home to joint/plane and it seems to clean up OK. He emailed me PICs or gorgeous QS white oak fleck on resawn 4/4 the night before. I must have just missed the good stuff LOL. The wood looks like good leg stock and that is why I am interested. 10/4 hard to find around here. Should I consider this wood if I can get a great price, or will the mishandling haunt me later as I take it to the shed to sticker and finish air drying?

On a side note, he also has large thick slabs of WO and Walnut. Plenty of nice wood after butchering, but there will be LOTS of waste due to knots, cracks etc. Its not going to yield a bunch of 8 foot x 8 inch lumber. Suggestions on how that stuff should be priced? I enjoy pulling diamonds from the rough if I don't get gouged on the price.

[Frank Drew]

Dewayne,

Could you be a bit more specific as to what bothers you about the white oak? Is it surface stained or overly weathered? Checked? Showing signs of rot, or incipient rot?

Certainly 10/4 will need a few more years stacked and stickered if you want to continue with air-drying (that would be my preference).

As for the other dimension lumber, it's not easy finding thick stock, so if you make furniture and can anticipate wanting leg stock, the oak and walnut he has might be something to seriously consider; the knots and cracks might not be a problem since you'll only need ca. 30" clear lengths as wide as the thickness for roughing out legs.

[Craig D Peltier]

I wouldnt want much just due to how thick it is. How many tables , legs can you make etc. 5/4 is much easier to handle and work with IMO

[Mark Bolton]

Dewayne,
We saw a bit of our own lumber with a small portable mill and dry in a solar kiln. When we saw a lot there is no way to get it all under cover so much of it air dries in the open. If we are able to cover the top of the piles we do however many times we just stack thin slabs shingle fashion/pyramid style on top of the pile to keep the water from pouring straight down on the pile. Its better if you can sticker the piles in a shaded area (woods) as it keeps the direct sunlight off it.

The quality of the lumber is one thing with regards to knots, checks, crook, and so on, but personally I wouldnt discount the entire lot because its been out in the weather. Often times just the top course in the pile is bad due to exposure to direct sun. Once you get into the middle of the pile you should have good material. I would think you could clearly tell if the material had been flooded as the pile would be full of debris and mud. That would probably be a hard thing to hide.

Perhaps you could make him an offer on the lot and heavily cull the top and sides which will be the worst material. You may get this outer material for cheap or nothing and still get a lot of usable material out of it.

Around here (WV) decent quality oak stickered outside uncovered may be in the $300-$500/mbf range or less and that likely wouldnt include the junk on the top and sides. If the material was thick and clean it may be tad bit higher. The quartersawn might add a bit, might not. Would depend if its actually QS or fully QS and how well a job he did.

With the thick stuff you could always find a local sawyer with a band mill and have them resaw it into other dimensions if you needed it.

What is he asking for the pile and how much is there?

Mark

[David Freed]

White oak is the wood of choice for outside use because it weathers better than any other common North American hardwood. I have dried close to 100,000 bf of oak. I always air dried it and never covered it. As Mark said, sometimes the top row would have some degrade, usually in the summertime. I never had enough losses to worry about it. Unless you can actually see damage I wouldn't be afraid of it.

[Dewayne Reding]

To answer most of the questions above. The wood is unrecognizable as oak before I clean it up. Almost black, and under a bit of ice. I'm a rookie. You get red oak wet, and I don't like the black marks that don't seem to disappear. It does clean up 99% in only a couple planer passes, and I am not wearing out the jointer face planing the thick stock.

QS oak is about 4.50 -5.00 around here. That is for S2S that isn't cherry picked too bad. We haven't discussed a price yet. I hate it when somebody negotiates a price with me and they aren't really ready to buy. I will be ready tomorrow since WO left outside doesn't seem to be a big issue. The fact that I now have a sample of planed stock that shows the flaws gives me confidence to dicker in good conscience.

thanks

[Mark Bolton]

Being in business for myself I dont like to prod anyone to selfishly beat someone up on price but I will say that it sounds like you hold the reigns here. Firstly this wood is in less than optimal condition. Any anticipated yeild will be suspect at best due to the condition. I would start your offer extremely low and be fully prepared to leave it for someone else if need be.

One thing to remember is that commercial lumber buyers and graders are a very cruel lot. If a lot like this came across a commercial buyer a weenie roast may be suggested.

Again, I dont mean to say that you should be unfair however dont be unfair to yourself either.

Mark

[harry strasil]

oxcilic (sp) acid makes the black stains dissapear (Bang)

[Mark Bolton]

oxcilic (sp) acid makes the black stains dissapear (Bang)

I have read this many times yet I have never found a place to buy it? I have heard furniture refinishers and pharmacist however have still never found it.

I looked for it to get rid of the staining from the cant sitting on the bunks when wet however the staining from oak coming in contact with steel doesnt go very deep and most always comes out in surfacing for us.

Mark

[Jim Watts]

Is this it?

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oxalic-acid-bleach.html

(and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid)

[Mark Bolton]

Is this it?

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oxalic-acid-bleach.html

(and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid)

Wow, that was too easy.

Grabbing my pointy hat and stool and heading to the corner for a few minutes.
Mark

[Dewayne Reding]

Not sure if you still can, but I have purchased oxalic acid in a crystalline form at the pharmacy over the years. Usually had to order it and wait a few days. We used it to clean the rust off beer cans when I collected them back in the day. It is especially strong in hot water solution. It was the main ingredient in automotive radiator flushes in the 70s. There's a little more oxalic acid history than you wanted to know. :)

[David Keller NC]

You can get oxalic acid (cheaply) at most dedicated paint stores, like Sherwin Williams. Be aware that it is a toxin. Though not nerve gas, you should prevent it from splashing in your eyes, on your skin, or using it in a small, enclosed space.

FYI - you can also use a number of basic compounds to neutralize it, including sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Also, be aware that kits are sold that contain both oxalic acid and hydrogen peroxide. These wood bleaches will not only remove stains from wood, but also all color from the surface. They're sometimes used prior to "pickling", and the result is a very white, bleached appearance, like the wood's been at the beach too long.

[Tom Hargrove]

Woodcraft also sells it, or at least they used to.

[Rob Luter]

I got it at Ace Hardware.