U-Flute or V-Flute. What's the diff?

[Burt Alcantara]

I'm in the market for gouges. Seems like everyone loves the Thompsons so I thought I'd give them a try. They have a choice of 2 flutes. Never had that choice before so what's the difference?

Also, what is the purpose of a spindle roughing gouge? Seems like a contradiction in terms. Lately, I've been doing all roughing with a 5/8" swept back bowl gouge of indeterminate flutage.

My sandwich awaits...
Burt

[Steve Schlumpf]

Burt - the way I understand the difference between V and U fluted gouges is that the V is not supposed to clog up as easily when roughing out blanks and removing a lot of material at once. The U shape is more for finishing cuts.

Spindle roughing gouge (abbreviated version) is primarily used for turning square spindle stock into round.

[Gordon Seto]

Seems like everyone loves the Thompsons so I thought I'd give them a try. They have a choice of 2 flutes.

There are 2 bowl gouge flutes now; two more signature gouges will be coming out soon. Too many choices. :confused:

[Bob Hamilton]

Actually, it is the V flute that can have a tendency to clog. It depends on how tight the radius is at the bottom of the flute. My P&N bowl gouges tend to clog a bit. The bottom radius of the Thompson V flute gouges is not as tight and I have not noticed any clogging at all with them.

Take care
Bob

[Brodie Brickey]

Burt - the way I understand the difference between V and U fluted gouges is that the V is not supposed to clog up as easily when roughing out blanks and removing a lot of material at once. The U shape is more for finishing cuts.


I think Steve has it backwards. The V shapes can clog a little easier. I have both of the Thompson types. I find the V shape more to my liking. If you like a swept back grind, the V allows shearing cuts on the outside of a bowl, when you work up from the foot (as demonstrated by Bill Grumbine in his first video).

The U shape is a little better for inside finish cuts because it can round the corner a little easier. If you follow Mike Mahoney's way of turning, you'll appreciate a U shape for the interior of a bowl. Some of this may be because of the way I grind my tools though.

I asked Doug about it when I placed my order, he said that he'd received requests for the U shape, but he only used a V shape for his gouges.

[Burt Alcantara]

I've been turning dry wood for the past year so I forgot about clogging. I have a number of wet logs I'd like to turn so clogging will be an issue. So is it the V or U?

Burt

[Jim Becker]

What grind you intend to use needs to be part of this decision...

[Doug Thompson]

It's cold in the shop today, leave the heater on it's to hot... turn it off the place is cold in a few minutes.

We follow the flute shape when a tool is ground so a U shape flute will have a large nose radius that when rolled will shear the wood kinda like a skew, this works well on dry wood or a finish cut when you don't want tearout. A V shape tool is ground (following the flute shape) with straight sides and a smaller nose radius, the straight sides will shear the wood when roughing and the smaller nose is easy to control. Go with the V shape flute and use sandpaper for a finish cut.

Jimmy Clewes will bring out a new flute shape next weekend at the TAW symposium in Nashville, this is a deep V shape made from this same steel A11. This is the shape Jimmy wanted for his turnings.

[Doug Thompson]

The V shape won't clog... that was a petpeeve of mine with the old Glaser's so the flute was design so it doesn't.

[Burt Alcantara]

Doug,
When will you be stocking the 5/8 V?

I'm ready to buy.
Burt

[Bernie Weishapl]

I like the V flute because it does not clog. I like the U flute for finish cuts. If I only had one I would do like Doug said buy the V flute and sandpaper.

[Burt Alcantara]

I don't get the sandpaper. Is that like honing?

[Doug Thompson]

I use a V shape tool and start sanding at 100 grit with a U shape tool or spindle gouge for that matter on the inside of a bowl you can start sanding with a finer grit.

The 5/8V will be done next Tuesday-Wednesday when Jimmy's tools are ready. Matter of fact Bill Grumbine will have a 5/8V ready that is 16 inches long... now that's a big tool!

EDIT - Bill has been using the prototype and doesn't even know a batch is done... I need to call him and let him know.

This is breaking news... hardly anyone knew about the new tools... you heard it first on Sawmill Creek!

[Gordon Seto]

Not all V are created equal. The depth of flute and the bottom radius design would have something to do with clogging or not.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/gbseto/d6613d50.jpg


Both the Glaser and Thompson V are classified as V flute shape, but they are different in design.
Doug and I belong to the same Club. He is a cowboy hat turner. I have seen his numerous prototype gouges. He has done a lot of experiments on varying the depth and the curvature of his flute shape design to come up with the current design. From the side by side molds, Thompson V has more steel beneath the flute allowing them to reach further over the tool rest without chattering. And the flute is more open to eject chips.
I am his satisfied customer, I have no financial relationship with him.

[Jon Lanier]

Names like Victor, Vallerie, Vance, Volvo use the 'V' gouge.
Folks with names like Unger, eUgene, Ulysses, eUnice.... should use the 'U' gouge.

[David Drickhamer]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. I just bought one of the 1/2" Thompson V gouges and think it's great. I also bought a 3/8" detail gouge but haven't made the handle yet. I can see ordering more gouges from Doug in the future. A side note, I had the gouges in hand three days after ordering. It doesn't get any better than that.

[Reed Gray]

I have a Glaser V gouge, and both of Dougs gouges, the U and the V. When roughing with the Glaser, it would clog up. I am very agressive when roughing. I can't do this with either of the Thompson gouges, no matter how hard I can try. I don't like the Glaser gouge on the inside of a bowl, just too steep of an angle, but it is nice on the outside. Both of the Thompson work fine inside and out. The only real difference that I have found it that with the U gouge, you need to keep the flutes at about a 45 degree angle (like at 1:30 o'clock) on the inside for a finish cut, and the V gouge can be kept more in the 10 degee range (just after noon). If that makes any sence to you. I can get fine finish cuts with both.
robo hippy

[Jim Kountz]

I use the 5/8" V and a 1/2" U gouge both from Doug. I cant say enough nice things about these tools or the man who makes them. The 5/8 V gouge lets me take a very aggressive cut and the shavings just slice right off the piece. Kind of makes a nice whooshing sound. The smaller 1/2 U gouge I find makes it easy to get in the bottom of bowls as the nose (for me) seems to follow the curve better. Im still learning all this stuff but to me the quality gouges Doug provides made the learning process much easier!!

[Doug Thompson]

Here's a example of how a 1/2V should rough a blank. This is from a hat demo I did a while back and those are 10 foot rafters in the building.

[Steve Mawson]

Burt,
Thanks for asking this question. I too am about ready to get a nice bowl gouge. This really helps.

Thanks again,

[Steve Schlumpf]

Doug - that looks like just WAY to much fun!!! Have to tell you that I absolutely love using my 5/8"V and my new 3/4"V!! Getting shavings like in your photo are now a common occurrence in my shop! Great gouges!

[Gordon Seto]

I think all the flute shapes boil down to how you present the gouge to wood. Bill Grumbine has done separate demos for the two Clubs that I belong to. All three days, he used a single 5/8" V bowl gouge, from rough to finish, no 80 grit gouge, no scraper. On the second photo, he showed the heavy shaving in one hand, the fine curly in the other coming from the same gouge, same grind. He didn't even go to the grinder prior to the finishing cut.http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/gbseto/22af53be.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/gbseto/15b60797.jpg
Different flute has different characters; only you know what's best for your style of turning.

[Burt Alcantara]

I just put my order in. Doug, if you're reading this please check your email.

Anyone know what kind of shield Bill is wearing? That looks like a good hat to keep the shavings out of my sparsely populated head.

Burt

[Cyril Griesbach]

Bert, I the photo Bill is wearing the Airstream respirator and the visor is up.

[Gordon Seto]

That is the one that provides better impact protection as well:
http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/category/3m-airstream-papr-powered-respirator.html
The down side is pricey and does not provide protection against organic matters. Some other 3M models do.

[Doug Thompson]

Burt, thank you tomorrow the post office is closed and I really hope the tools are done on Tuesday because Thursday I have to drive to Nashville and setup Thursday night.