Are we in the “Industrial Revolution” style of furniture?

[Bob Parker]

I was going to post this in the "Off-Topic" forum but after thinking about it, I think this is on topic for general woodworking.

Listed below are most of the major American styles of furniture in chronological order. My question… what defining style of furniture are we presently building? Is it even possible to know that or is that something historians name 100 years later? Did woodworkers during the Federal period know that they were creating Federal furniture? I think that if there even is a defining style of our time, it would have to be the “Mass-produced, cheap, price-driven, CNC, complete and total industrialization of furniture” style. I really hope this is not the end of the road for fine furniture and furniture makers. We can never compete with a machine. I know we can make better, longer lasting furniture but, most of our modern day customers can see no value in this. Maybe it is a natural undulation. Assuming that it is, then, the next question is… What will the next style of furniture be and who will lead the way?


Jacobean (1600-1690)
Early American (1640-1700)
William and Mary (1690-1725)
Queen Anne (1700-1755)
Colonial (1700-1780)
Georgian (1714-1760)
Pennsylvania Dutch (1720-1830)
Chippendale (1750-1790)
Robert Adam (1760-1795)
Hepplewhite (1765-1800)
Federal (1780-1820)
Sheraton (1780-1820)
Duncan Phyfe (1795-1848)
American Empire (1800-1840)
Shaker (1820-1860)
Victorian (1840-1910)
Arts and Craft (1880-1910)
Art Nouveau (1890-1910)
Scandinavian Contemporary (1930-1950)


(also found here (http://woodworkerblog.com))

[Neal Clayton]

i think alot of it was summed up well in a conversation i heard on the radio a few weeks back while in new orleans, it might have been a PBS show, not sure, but the gist of the conversation was, in previous eras, a priveleged person was someone who could afford a liberal arts education, liberal arts defined by someone who was not only educated in law, or medicine, or science, or the arts, but was taught a bit of everything, along with some practical application of their choice of specialization.

so the people who could afford to buy such things, had been taught to appreciate them.

these days people buy their first house and fill it with junk from ikea and walmart and then wonder why it doesn't look good. not because they're condescending of skilled trades and the items they produce, they just don't know anything about them, because they've never been taught.

in the past 20-30 years, we've steered people away from that liberal education. now their preferred method is to "choose what you want to make money at, and don't learn about anything else, so if you can't make a decision about your house, or your car, or your furniture, or anything else, don't worry about it, hire someone else to do that for you".

reversing this trend will be harder and harder to do in the future, since every day some of what little standing history in the form of architecture and such that america has, is lost to a mall or parking lot. and what we had to start with is pretty sparse compared to europe, asia, etc. it's easy to walk a class full of students in the UK past buckingham palace and say "look, that's what craftsmanship is, and that's why art and architecture education is important".

a kid who grows up in las vegas, for example on our side of the pond, has never seen such things, so can't appreciate them. as far as he or she knows, the pinnacle of modern engineering is the huge glass and dryvit casino downtown. and he or she is also taught that if you own said casino and don't care for the appearance or layout of it, just level it with dynamite and build a new one with brighter neon.

if there is a silver lining, at least some younger people these days seem to want to move back to the cities, rather than further out into suburbs. and along with that, renovated old downtown structures retrofitted into condos are quite popular. i would hope that someone who goes from that to a suburb filled with fake brick siding, plastic millwork/windows/doors, and little or no variation in appearance from house to house and block to block would be able to instantly spot a decline in quality and a desire to not live in such places.

[Mike Henderson]

Even if furniture is built mostly by machine, it can have a distinctive style. I don't know what the style is today, but I want to make a few comments about the furniture we see in showrooms today.

I go looking at commercial furniture and am amazed at the price. I could not purchase the wood at the price the item is selling for. I do not see that as a bad thing, or that the furniture is "bad" or "cheap". That furniture meets the needs of the majority of furniture buyers. Many customers are not looking for furniture which will last generations - they're looking for something that will last 20 years through the raising of the kids. At that time, the people are likely to want to re-decorate. Disposing of inexpensive furniture is easier than disposing of expensive furniture.

On the whole, mass production has provided a tremendous gain to individuals and to the country.

There will always be people who want custom furniture, but there's not a lot of them - which is why most custom furniture makers starve.

Mike

[Neal Clayton]

Even if furniture is built mostly by machine, it can have a distinctive style. I don't know what the style is today, but I want to make a few comments about the furniture we see in showrooms today.

I go looking at commercial furniture and am amazed at the price. I could not purchase the wood at the price the item is selling for. I do not see that as a bad thing, or that the furniture is "bad" or "cheap". That furniture meets the needs of the majority of furniture buyers. Many customers are not looking for furniture which will last generations - they're looking for something that will last 20 years through the raising of the kids. At that time, the people are likely to want to re-decorate. Disposing of inexpensive furniture is easier than disposing of expensive furniture.

On the whole, mass production has provided a tremendous gain to individuals and to the country.

There will always be people who want custom furniture, but there's not a lot of them - which is why most custom furniture makers starve.

Mike

whether all that is bad or not depends on which side of the equation you're on.

50-100 years ago little johnny would get out of school and his parents would give him some of their furniture as a gift, and commission new replacements.

these days little johnny gets out of school and buys a bunch of stuff from ikea, then when he gets promoted throws the ikea stuff to the curb and buys new stuff from restoration hardware. meanwhile his parents toss their old stuff out to the curb too, and also buy new stuff.

50-100 years ago one old growth tree was passed from one generation to the next, and another old growth tree was harvested to make the newly commissioned furniture for the parents.

result: 2 trees over 20 years for two dining rooms, and both are still being used.

in this generation the old growth tree is taken to the dump's compost pile and replaced with the cutting of a new growth one, which is also thrown to the burn pile a few years later when little johnny gets his first promotion, and then replaced with a second old growth one harvested from some other country, not our own, to make veneers for vice president furniture instead of mailroom clerk furniture.

result: one old growth tree destroyed, several new growth trees destroyed, one more old growth tree currently in use.

if you're a furniture manufacturer this might not be bad, but if you're a tree it's looking pretty grim ;).

and i'm not out on my weekends sipping green tea and taking pictures of myself while hugging trees. so whoever might make that comment, spare us your political stereotypes in advance. i use lumber just like everyone else here does, and am typing this from a pretty nice hardwood and leather office chair.

the point is with all of our modern machinery there's no need to be wasteful, yet our culture is just that...wasteful.

and furthermore, i think the trend in question is self serving, which is why it has persisted. why do people throw away their 40s and 50s era low end furniture? because it's ugly, that's why. did it become ugly in the past 30 years? no, it was ugly when mom and pop bought it, but they were convinced by clever marketing that the neighbors had it so they must have it, nevermind the fact that it's as ugly now as it was on the showroom floor back in 1957. why do people buy ugly things at ikea and pier 1 these days? because ikea and pier 1 market to them, so they don't know where else to go. they know how to follow the sale ads in the sunday paper, so that's what they do. in 20 years their kids will be throwing out their ikea and pier 1 junk and marveling at how ugly it is and wondering why mom and pop bought that junk way back in 2009. well, it'll be the same story, it was just as ugly and cheap in 2009 as it will be in 2029, mom and pop just didn't know better.

[Mike Henderson]

Actually, it's better today. Wood is grown on farms and made into MDF which is the substrate for a lot of modern furniture. On top of that is veneer, which is the most efficient use of scarce hardwood.

So while the furniture might get thrown away after 20 years, the amount of scarce hardwood thrown away is quite small.

And the people who got the use of it for the 20 years didn't have to pay an enormous price for it initially.

Personally, I think that's a good trade-off.

Mike

[Neal Clayton]

Actually, it's better today. Wood is grown on farms and made into MDF which is the substrate for a lot of modern furniture. On top of that is veneer, which is the most efficient use of scarce hardwood.

So while the furniture might get thrown away after 20 years, the amount of scarce hardwood thrown away is quite small.

And the people who got the use of it for the 20 years didn't have to pay an enormous price for it initially.

Personally, I think that's a good trade-off.

Mike

but the fact remains that when furniture was passed from generation to generation, the amount of hardwood thrown away was zero.

and there's little argument that the owner of said heirloom furniture had a lesser quality at any given time than veneer over MDF.

and i know the eventual progression of my argument leads to the question..."so you think things should be so expensive that not everyone can afford them? and people have to save money to buy that first dining room table and chairs?"

and the answer is yes, i think that's a fine situation. the conversation quickly steers off topic at that point, but i think we're seeing in recent financial news that a person coming out of college with 6 digits in debt being able to have a brand new house and all the modern amenities at the drop of a signature might not necessarily be a good thing on a macro scale.

[Mike Henderson]

but the fact remains that when furniture was passed from generation to generation, the amount of hardwood thrown away was zero.

and there's little argument that the owner of said heirloom furniture had a lesser quality at any given time than veneer over MDF.

and i know the eventual progression of my argument leads to the question..."so you think things should be so expensive that not everyone can afford them? and people have to save money to buy that first dining room table and chairs?"

and the answer is yes, i think that's a fine situation. the conversation quickly steers off topic at that point, but i think we're seeing in recent financial news that a person coming out of college with 6 digits in debt being able to have a brand new house and all the modern amenities at the drop of a signature might not necessarily be a good thing on a macro scale.
I don't think people should have to go deep in debt to buy their first furniture. People can be very happy with furniture that does not cost as much as the house.

Additionally, having expensive furniture does not guarantee that it will be "good" furniture. If you study the furniture of the 1700's (when all furniture was hand made) you see that some of it was God-awful ugly and poorly made. The stuff that's in museums has stood the test of time, both for taste and for construction. The other stuff got trashed - meaning that some percentage of fine hardwood got thrown away because of those factors (note that very little of that 1700's furniture has survived, whether good or bad).

So I'm all for the furniture industry we have today. Newly married people can purchase the furniture they need, and can be quite happy with it, even if you would think they have poor taste, both in style and longevity.

And in the larger sense, people should have the choice. They can get custom furniture made for themselves, should they want that. The fact that many people choose otherwise is not a fault, but a strength of our economic system.

Mike

[Bob Parker]

Mike...it seems as if you are sticking up for the very thing that is putting small shops out of business. I am a total capitalist and have no grudge against walmart or ikea, they found a sleazy way to make money but have every right to it. The main thing I wonder about is... Is this the end of fine furniture and the fine furniture maker? Is this the final step in the evolution of furniture styles? Mike, you might be right about this...I really hope you are not.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike...it seems as if you are sticking up for the very thing that is putting small shops out of business. I am a total capitalist and have no grudge against walmart or ikea, they found a sleazy way to make money but have every right to it. The main thing I wonder about is... Is this the end of fine furniture and the fine furniture maker? Is this the final step in the evolution of furniture styles? Mike, you might be right about this...I really hope you are not.
There's a certain number of people who want custom furniture and are willing to pay for it. The size of that population will only support a certain number of custom woodworking shops.

The point I'm trying to make is that the furniture industry of today brings enormous benefit to the majority of people who do not want the cost of custom made furniture.

I'm not sticking up for anyone. I'm trying to be realistic.

Mike

[Brian Kent]

We live in a generation where just about all levels of quality are available. On the one hand, I have helped my son screw together his vinyl-wood covered press-board shelves that were his first furniture purchase. On the other hand I have made a couple of pieces I hope his grandkids could inherit.

We have a quick way into getting basic needs met, but we also are able to build up our hand-tool skills and helpful machines over time. With all of the training videos and Sawmill Creek forums, an average hobbyist can learn to build some pretty wonderful stuff.

This is different than making a living at it. But I think a lot of people are re-learning how to make furniture worth keeping - one piece or one skill at a time.

[Rick Peek]

I have to agree with Mike on this one. When I first started out I was
able to purchase furniture for my home & enjoyed it for many years
as a 20 something. As time went on & my pay increased 10 fold, my
tastes changed (from modern to traditional ) and I was able to afford
much higher quality furniture. Thats when I started buying nice quality
items that I can pass on to my children.

Bottom line is,not everyone can afford or even want custom furniture.
I'm sure many items built in the 1700's to 1900's fell apart & got tossed
as well. Just not to the extent of today.

[Adam Grills]

Mike H.
All points well made!

Just b/c something was made from a computer program/ machine does not make it junk- it is reliable and repeatable. Something that a "custom" hand made furnature maker cannot do.

The only thing sacrificed is the creativity beyoned the machines capabilities/ limits.
Adam

[Bob Parker]

I'm really suprised theres so much credit given to a router. I guess there is a difference between a woodworker and a businessman :confused:

[Dave Lehnert]

Most of my work in the early days could be called "Road Side" furniture. LOL!!

[Brian Holvenstot]

I saw this topic and figured this was a perfect topic to make my first post, as I am new to the board. My interest in this topic is from 3 directions, first as a hobbyist woodworker, second as an industrial designer making mass produced products (motorcycle helmets), and third as a younger generation consumer (with plenty of debt). I think that today's consumer is driven by a couple of forces that shed light on their buying habits.

First is choice, having so many choices makes the furniture buyers choice more difficult, and that leads to second guessing. Why invest in furniture that will last 20 years, when you may be tired of it after 5? It used to be that kitchen cabinets were all made pretty similar, and look what Ikea and home depot have done, simply by giving more options.

Second is technology. We are in an accelerated moment in history with computers, and needs and wants change quicker. 25 years ago the TV was a piece of furniture, now it is becoming part of the wall. Computers are transforming the same way. I would guess that sooner or later, the TV and computer become the same device. Materials are also changing. Plastics and metals are better understood, and are being brought into the furniture spectrum more regularly now.

Finally, there is the consumer aspect. Whether you like it or not, we live in a society that relates success with material possessions, and that makes us set goals. Once we reach a goal, we set loftier goals. That is the benefit and curse of capitalism.

[Mike Henderson]

Welcome to the forum, Brian.

Mike

[Peter Quinn]

I don't know what period we are in now but there are several very successful furniture makers in my town and more in my area that have pieces in museums presently, and there are scores of local custom cabinet shops that make built ins of furniture quality (I work for one), none of which I have seen in line at the local soup kitchen. As further evidence of wood workings present health there was a show recently on a national cable network featuring a fine furniture maker you may have heard of, David Marks, who trained and inspired (and continues to) countless furniture makers.:D Perhaps there is a freedom now to work in any style or combine styles in a way that defies easy definition as was possible in the cloistered ages past? Go back a bit in history and all the early styles are defined by the tastes of the crown and their courts. Very small closed circuit, easy to define. Yes, now is not the worst time in history to buy a quality piece of furniture in any of a myriad of styles.

I think if you watch too many antiques road show episodes you start thinking every citizen owned a house full of Philadelphia or Sheraton furniture in the colonial period when in fact most people had little furniture in there homes and what they did have was junk cobbled together from scraps. Most people were operating on a subsistence level and fine furnishings were not in their range. Custom furniture commissions were the domain of the wealthy just as they are mostly today. Fact is more people can afford quality furniture today than at any time previous in history, but this doesn't mean every body can. Even in the roaring 1920's most people could not afford a piece by Ruhlmann and few can today.

I agree with Mike, inexpensive furnishings are not a plague destined to ruin things for custom furniture makers. Factories have provided an option since the late 1800's for those that would otherwise have had nothing. My wife and I have a house occupied by simple quality furniture, none if it the wallmart/ikea ilk, but mostly factory made hardwood construction. It took us years to go from a mostly empty house to something resembling a decorated home. We went through a round of IKEA pieces in our first NY apartment, and frankly they were a nice upgrade from the milk crates we had been using, connected with tie straps to form bookcases and dressers! I do find the quality of some of the offerings on the bottom of the furniture quality scale regrettable but I don't begrudge those that find this stuff meets their needs.

It has always been difficult to open a furniture shop and develop a solid business, it has always been a long road from apprentice to self employed master, and it has never been the highest paying business. Used to be you had to apprentice with a master to even be able to open a shop, today any yokle with a TS can hang a shingle and take his or her shot at wood working. Even well established quality shops struggle in lean times. A living can be made but is nor has it ever been guaranteed.

My own parents saved for years to be able to afford factory made furniture that as a child I though to be of the highest quality but as an adult in the wood working business I now understand to be very pedestrian factory made stuff. It is made of wood, has lasted 30 plus years, and sure beats the stuff it replaced and the stuff they could not afford.

[Warren Clemans]

Great topic. I side with Neal in this debate--I think the majority of furniture in most peoples' houses today is crap. Abject, depressing, ugly crap. That goes for Restoration Hardware and Pottery Shed and the other stores that try to be a step up from Ikea. I don't buy for a second that it's all people can afford. People shop at Ikea and Target because they don't care--they place a low value on furniture relative to other things that they spend money on. They would rather spend the money on a big-screen TV, $100 a month for cable, fashionable clothes, jewelry, more cars than they need, etc. It's all about priorities. Personally, if I couldn't afford a nice solid-wood coffee table (either bought from a decent maker or made myself), then I'd rather have a pine board over a couple of milk crates. At least the milk crates are honest work, whereas the Ikea table is fake. Yes, this makes me an elitist, but so are all of you who build (or are at least interested in building) your own furniture when you could buy it more cheaply.

So, to address the original post, I suggest:

Jacobean (1600-1690)
Early American (1640-1700)
William and Mary (1690-1725)
Queen Anne (1700-1755)
[etc]
Arts and Crafts (1880-1910)
Art Nouveau (1890-1910)
Scandinavian Contemporary (1930-1950)
Metal and naugehyde (1950-1980)
Cheap (1980-present)

[Jim Mattheiss]

Road side furniture - LOL

The first "furniture" I made was a stand for our microwave oven. I built it while I was whiling away the time during the LOML's Bridal Shower.

Some years later we lent it to Grandma to hold her microwave. When she was done with it I as moving it back to my house in the open trunk of my car.

Of course it fell out and skidded along the rode for 30 feet or so. I picked it up, put it back in the trunk and completed the journey. For about 60 seconds it was "road side furniture".

Anyway - The only "heirloom" furniture passed along to me from my parents was my "rustic oak" bedroom set. Desk, upright dresser and twin bed. The bed frame is in the attic but the other pieces are in my son's room. He can take it when and if he wants it.

This conversation reminds me of the SK/Snap-On versus cheap hand tools discussion. There are the buy quality versus but commodity people - regardless of the commodity.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers

Jim

[Mike Henderson]

This conversation reminds me of the SK/Snap-On versus cheap hand tools discussion. There are the buy quality versus but commodity people - regardless of the commodity.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers

Jim
The thing I would argue, Jim, is that the factory made furniture IS quality furniture. The definition of Quality is "Meeting the needs of the customer". For those people who find factory made furniture to be exactly what they want, they have purchased "Quality furniture".

Mike

[Sonny Edmonds]

More like the slam-bam-throw it away man, era.
I enjoy making quality furniture. It ain't cheap, but it is nice stuff.

[Danny Thompson]

Maybe the "Compost" era?

The "newest" and most exciting furniture I've seen lately is all whimsical:

http://www.thisnext.com/item/9700D742/Shawn-Lovell-Metalworks-Tree
http://www.thisnext.com/item/329E6FBE/branch-shelf
http://www.dustfurniture.com/ (http://www.dustfurniture.com/)

or deconstructed:
http://thecool-listkids.com/?p=172

Best furniture designs: I still love the clean lines of the Italians.

[Bob Parker]

So this is the end of fine furniture....I always come in at the end of great things :(

[Bob Parker]

If you apply everything we are saying to a painter, then you can see that technology has also made it so we can mass produce art, but that doesn't put the artist out of business because people still instinctively know that an actual painting is more precious than a print. People don't seem to be able to tell the difference between the two when it comes to furniture. Is furniture "art"? I like what Tage Frid says.. "Congratulations. You've just figured out the most complicated way to hold a board 30 inches off the floor."

[Andrew Joiner]

Great topic.
After Scandinavian Modern I say it's something like:

Mid-Century Modern 1950 to 1965

"Designer Furniture" 1965 to present

If it's based on what is sought after as the "highest standard" or what's really cool and "in" for the time period. My parents could not afford true Scandinavian Modern but they bought cheap copies because it was the "style to have ".

Designer Furniture could be on the list. It may have been helped along by consumers paying more for Designer approved clothes. Many furniture lines branded with a Designer name had more status associated with them. Less wood more chrome and glass. Mixed materials other than wood could be seen in all the design magazines starting in the 60's.

Now and the future:

Green Eco-Friendly 2000 to ?

You tell me what the consumer and marketing will decide on here. Wood has a lot of green going for it. The design of commercial furniture is heavily influenced by it since the LEED standards. Green marketing is a driver for people with purchasing power. Thus we may see bamboo printed particle board furniture for the masses, real bamboo for the upper class.

I love to study the history of furniture design. Over the years from
Chippendale to Nakashima and Sam Maloof I've seen one thing. You gotta have a gimmick!
How did the very first ball and claw foot detail get sold?

Granted, quality is important. But it us, the designers and makers of furniture, that show the consumer what we think is cool, or the best. The consumer say's they believe us if they plunk down the cash.

[Neal Clayton]

this makes me an elitist, but so are all of you who build (or are at least interested in building) your own furniture when you could buy it more cheaply.



that's another peeve of mine. the ignorant and tasteless calling anyone who isn't "elitist" but that would be a 10 page thread that'd get us all banned so i'll skip that ;)

i don't have anything against machines, i have lots of them. and not every piece of furniture in my house is custom or antique, it's about half and half (i do have all original art, though, i prefer stuff from promising local artists rather than buying prints, but we're lucky enough to live in an area where a local artist can make a living, that's more difficult than furniture, imo, and not possible everywhere).

but what gets me are the people who come walking out of ikea with a cheap set of kids beds they'll spend a day putting together with the excuse of "i can't afford a good one" when there's a vastly superior alternative on craigslist for 50 bucks that needs the same day of work (only stripping the green paint and refinishing rather than assembling).

on the upside, more and more people i think are realizing this. the turnover of used items on our local craigslist has gone up quite a bit even in the last couple of years.

[Rick Fisher]

Its a matter or recognizing two different markets. There is still a market for custom furniture and its growing.

We have a mix in our house and I must say that the quality of the newer mass produced stuff is actually pretty darn good.

There will always be a market for custom goods.

[Ron Knapp]

Art Deco should probably be included on the list. Nice topic.

[Jay Knoll]

I've been away for awhile and then just lurking but this thread caught my interest.

38 years ago my in-laws gave us $500 "toward the wedding", we had a very small ceremony and my wife and I bought a Scandinavian Dining table, and six chairs. We're still using it today. But some of you would probably call it junk furniture, the top isn't solid teak but a veneer over a ply substrate. We've taken care of it and there have been a lot of wonderful memories created with that table.

Before we married my wife lived in NYC, she picked up a chest of drawers off the side of the street, one of those bleached oak numbers. The veneer was pretty beat up when I got my hands on it, but the carcass was solid, so wood putty, and a painted surface. Yep, still got that one too, we've lost count of all the different paint colors it has had, but I do recall stripping it down about 7 years ago for the latest paint job. But the design was good and it still fits into our contemporary style.

I am in awe of some of the furniture that people here can make, but the only stuff that really catches my eye are the Shaker inspired pieces, (and that includes the Moser and Mark Green designs) but that is just my taste. You couldn't pay me to have the "colonial" stuff that surrounded me from my childhood. I do have a small chest of drawers that was my grandparents and then in my Mom's home before she died. It is a great counterpoint to the rest of our stuff but only as an accent piece.

I installed a kitchen from IKEA stuff several years ago, I couldn't be happier with the result. And it was much cheaper than any other available alternative at, I think, equal or better quality. There are benefits to mass production! And I've learned how to build better stuff. But I don't think I could afford myself if I had to pay a decent hourly wage for the stuff I make for our family. But as a hobby it is a wonderful and sure beats the heck out of golf.

If I were 20 something and trying to make it in this competitive economy I don't think I could afford the luxury of building all the furniture for my house. My time would, I think, be better spent focusing on a career and family, forming a foundation for a better future. And then, the manufactured alternatives seem to make sense. But I wouldn't put IKEA and Restoration Hardware in the same category, the higher end IKEA stuff is clearly better (but that is just my design aesthetic)

It is really hard to train someone to understand the cost value relationship, in anything. How many people seem to "need" a specific item of clothing because of the logo that it carries. And furniture can be even more difficult because of the significant cost that quality demands. I think that quality custom pieces can be acquired over a lifetime as one's personal style evolves, in the meantime, the IKEA and Target, I think, provide a great design based alternative to some of the other stuff -- like that which Walmart sells which I would characterize as "junk".

Jay

[David Keller NC]

From the standpoint of the original post, that's a tough question. Most historians and scholars will tell you that, with the exception of Chippendale, Sheraton and Hepplewhite, furniture makers of the day didn't know they were producing "Queen Anne" or "Empire" furniture. Those were labels that historians and scholars applied after the fact, because humans find it necesssary to categorize things (no that that's a bad thing, it just is). Even makers of "Chippendale" didn't refer to it that way - they referred to furniture made "In the latest London style, in the neatest manner", though they were indeed taking most of their cues from "The Gentleman and Cabinetmaker's Director".

There is, however, a seismic shift in furniture made after the 1940's, there is no doubt about that. Most of that change has been brought about by technology, and could be categorized by three separate aspects:

1) The lines of most furniture are determined by a compromise between the designer's intention and the ability of said design to be manufactured almost exclusively by automated equipment. As technology has advanced, the "machine requirement" is becoming less and less of a limitation, but more and more of a necessity.

2) The surface aspects of modern, manufactured furniture has become of prime importance, because the underlying substrate is of man-made materials. The number and type of this surface finish has proliferated beyond all categorization as technology has advanced - many types of surface finishes, such as cracking/crazing, fly-speck, surface-streaking, etc..., is a direct result of modern chemistry and application methods.

3) The manufacturing of raised surface ornamentation and inlay work has all but disappeared as un-manufacturable. This is changing as the rapid development of CNC equipment and man-made, stable, and perfectly dimensional materials has advanced.

So, while my personal opinion is that "Industrial Revolting" might be an appropriate label for modern, "middle of the road" furniture, I suspect later historians and scholars may term it "early machine" furniture, or something similar, because it's mostly characterized by changes in materials, surfaces and designs that can be made by automation.

[M. A. Espinoza]

Great topic.

I love to study the history of furniture design. Over the years from
Chippendale to Nakashima and Sam Maloof I've seen one thing. You gotta have a gimmick!
How did the very first ball and claw foot detail get sold?

Granted, quality is important. But it us, the designers and makers of furniture, that show the consumer what we think is cool, or the best. The consumer say's they believe us if they plunk down the cash.

QFT

One of the things I always try to keep in mind is my belief that the number one thing that makes furniture last is design. Joinery, materials can't be totally forgotten but for something to last people must want to take care of it.

For what its worth, Hans Wegner is probably the furniture designer I revere the most. Unbelievable proportion, great lines and he was a legitimate cabinetmaker not simply a pencil jockey.

[Gene Howe]

There will always be people who want custom furniture, but there's not a lot of them - which is why most custom furniture makers starve.

Mike

Sell to the rich and live with the masses. Sell to the masses and live with the rich. It is but a choice, friends.

[Mike Henderson]

One of the things I always try to keep in mind is my belief that the number one thing that makes furniture last is design. Joinery, materials can't be totally forgotten but for something to last people must want to take care of it.
I absolutely agree with you. Sam Maloof is known because of his designs, not because he's a great craftsman.

A well designed piece of furniture which appeals across ages will be kept and passed on. If the design is transient and falls out of favor, the piece of furniture is thrown away.

Mike

[Jim Finn]

[quote=Neal Clayton;1021970]whether all that is bad or not depends on which side of the equation you're on.

"50-100 years ago little johnny would get out of school and his parents would give him some of their furniture as a gift, and commission new replacements."
~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was a teen 50 years ago and my parents, who were around 100 years ago never commisioned one piece of furniture. Things have not changed that much or quickly.~~~~~~~~~
"if you're a furniture manufacturer this might not be bad, but if you're a tree it's looking pretty grim "
~~~~~~~~~There are actualy more trees in the USA today than there were in the 1860's. Lots of farmland has been abandonded because of more intense framing methods and food and lumber imports.~~~

[Stephen Edwards]

I'm really suprised theres so much credit given to a router. I guess there is a difference between a woodworker and a businessman :confused:

Yes, there IS a difference, a big difference. Many great woodworkers aren't business people. That's OK if they're not trying to make a living doing their woodwork.

On the other hand, there are many less skilled woodworkers who do make a living with their craft.

Like some of the OP have said, it's all about choice. In our society if someone wants to fill their house with whatever they like and can afford, that's their business. Even if I think that their furniture is tacky, it's still their home and their choice, as it should be in a free society.

Great Topic! Welcome to the forum and thanks for a well thought through first post.

Best Wishes,

[M. A. Espinoza]

Sell to the rich and live with the masses. Sell to the masses and live with the rich. It is but a choice, friends.


Beautiful. So true.:D

[Bob Parker]

I wonder where Krenov will factor in all this?

[Glenn Clabo]

Sell to the rich and live with the masses. Sell to the masses and live with the rich. It is but a choice, friends.

Perfect...!

[Neal Clayton]

There are actualy more trees in the USA today than there were in the 1860's. Lots of farmland has been abandonded because of more intense framing methods and food and lumber imports.~~~

key words, in the USA.

meanwhile, that box of kleenex in your bathroom was made from foreign old growth forests (http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/26/magazines/fortune/pluggedin_gunther.fortune/index.htm)

[Dave Avery]

I've been away for awhile and then just lurking but this thread caught my interest.

38 years ago my in-laws gave us $500 "toward the wedding", we had a very small ceremony and my wife and I bought a Scandinavian Dining table, and six chairs. We're still using it today. But some of you would probably call it crap furniture, the top isn't solid teak but a veneer over a ply substrate. We've taken care of it and there have been a lot of wonderful memories created with that table.

Before we married my wife lived in NYC, she picked up a chest of drawers off the side of the street, one of those bleached oak numbers. The veneer was pretty beat up when I got my hands on it, but the carcass was solid, so wood putty, and a painted surface. Yep, still got that one too, we've lost count of all the different paint colors it has had, but I do recall stripping it down about 7 years ago for the latest paint job. But the design was good and it still fits into our contemporary style.

I am in awe of some of the furniture that people here can make, but the only stuff that really catches my eye are the Shaker inspired pieces, (and that includes the Moser and Mark Green designs) but that is just my taste. You couldn't pay me to have the "colonial" stuff that surrounded me from my childhood. I do have a small chest of drawers that was my grandparents and then in my Mom's home before she died. It is a great counterpoint to the rest of our stuff but only as an accent piece.

I installed a kitchen from IKEA stuff several years ago, I couldn't be happier with the result. And it was much cheaper than any other available alternative at, I think, equal or better quality. There are benefits to mass production! And I've learned how to build better stuff. But I don't think I could afford myself if I had to pay a decent hourly wage for the stuff I make for our family. But as a hobby it is a wonderful and sure beats the heck out of golf.

If I were 20 something and trying to make it in this competitive economy I don't think I could afford the luxury of building all the furniture for my house. My time would, I think, be better spent focusing on a career and family, forming a foundation for a better future. And then, the manufactured alternatives seem to make sense. But I wouldn't put IKEA and Restoration Hardware in the same category, the higher end IKEA stuff is clearly better (but that is just my design aesthetic)

It is really hard to train someone to understand the cost value relationship, in anything. How many people seem to "need" a specific item of clothing because of the logo that it carries. And furniture can be even more difficult because of the significant cost that quality demands. I think that quality custom pieces can be acquired over a lifetime as one's personal style evolves, in the meantime, the IKEA and Target, I think, provide a great design based alternative to some of the other stuff -- like that which Walmart sells which I would characterize as "junk".

Jay


Well said, Jay. I also did a kitchen with Ikea cabinets - the entire cabinet was less expensive than my cost to buy the Blum drawer hardware. Assembled in 15 minutes per cabinet. Rock solid. When (if?) the door and drawer fronts get beat up, I'll make my own. Until then, I'll enjoy a kitchen that most people think cost $100K to remodel when it really cost $15K. And I'll spend my time making fine furniture that will - hopefully - last a few generations.

Welcome back, by the way.

Best. Dave.

[Griph0n Brown]

Hmmmm Consumption - Production = Economic Crisis?

Believe me, I'm as guilty as anyone, but I am rehabbing a few old planes......

[Tony Bilello]

A lot of us live in 2 different worlds.
When I was growing up we were very poor. We were given furniture from my grandparents, not because it was heirloom or great quality, it was because we couldnt afford new furniture. Strange thing is that the furniture was junk back then. My grandparents didnt buy it either. It was given to them by someone else who was giving away junk.
Way back when, only the privelidged bought new quality furniture.
Think of only a hundred years ago. If it took a craftsman a week to build a piece of furniture, he wanted a weeks salary from it. Most people were relatively poor back then and no way could the bulk of the population afford a weeks salary for a quality buffet. I think we have a distorted view of how things were.
Wanna talk pure fa cockta furniture? Look at the average stuff produced in the early 1900's. Even better, look at the crap produced during the depression. And even at this, it was too expensive for the bulk of the population.
It is not always a good idea to categorize hand-made with quality.
If I were a young man setting up household for the first time, you bet your life I would be furnishing my whole house with Ikea. Like others, my taste would change long before the furniture would give out.

High quality furniture is still produced today. Do you want to spend a month's salary on a bedroom suite? And that's only Ethan Allen. Imagine what the real quality furniture costs.

[Matt Wachter]

I don't post here as much as I should, but I'll throw my 2 cents in too. Very interesting topic.

I would classify our current design era as cheap. I think others have correctly identified it. They design their house with new stuff, then when it gets a ding in it, toss it and redecorate.

Our table was my great grandmas, and looks pretty rough, but I know that if I can get it out of the house for a couple of weeks, I can take it apart, give it a little sanding and finishing, glue it back, and it would be good for another 70 years. We looked at replacing it a while back, and I couldn't find anything that came close to quality and construction in my price range. Guess that puts me in the cheap category.

[Cody Colston]

I don't think there is, nor will be again, any one style of furniture that dominates an era. The near instant availability of practically any style imaginable will prevent it from recurring.

Remember, too that mass produced furniture is produced for the masses...not that upper small percentage of the population that appreciates and can afford fine furniture.

That was no different during the Queen Anne, Chippendale or Federal era, either. Those beautiful bonnet topped highboys, blocked front desks and inlaid sideboards weren't commissioned and bought by the masses. They were bought primarily by wealthy merchants who wanted them as a means of showing off that newfound wealth.

There has always been and will always be cheaply made furniture of lesser than "fine" quality for those who cannot afford the best...which is most of the population.