Planes for Newbies

[Dave Novak]

Hello guys, I'm a hard-core power tool only weekend hobbyist woodworker who after reading the neander forum a while realizes he is in serious need of reform. If I had a dime for every 1/8" - 1/16" of material I've power-sanded on for hours, made uneven, scratched the begeezus out of, and rounded off I'd be able to afford a Felder combo machine. That said, I believe my most pressing need is for planes. I have a $15 buck brothers bench plane that I believe is the basis for my previous plane-disdain; I simply cannot get it set up and hold that set up for more than a few strokes. More trouble than it's worth. Consistent with most of my other tool purchases, I'm planning to buy the best I can in the hopes it might help cover up my lack of skill. My limited research makes me believe Veritas is the right brand. The question is, since I can only afford one, maybe two at a time, where should I start? I'm pretty comfortable with my jointer and planer, so i won't be frequently using it to mill/prepare stock. My most frequent need is correcting sloppy assembly, like when the pocket screw slips a little and there's a tiny overhang that needs cleaned up. Maybe champhoring (sp?) an edge every once in a while. I'm guessing a block plane is a good place to start - it seems like its size might make it a simple plane to build skill with. Am I on the right track?

[Phillip Pattee]

Veritas planes are an excellent choice. Lie-Nielsen are also good. If you can, try out a friends or go to several stores and give them a test run. Tools, expecially hand tools are highly personal. You want it to feel like an extention of your hand, it needs to be comfortable, and it needs to work efficiently, or you won't use it.

Based on what you think you will use the plane to do, I agree that a block plane should be your first purchase. A low angle block plane is a very useful tool--you will reach for it often to chamfer edges, even up end grain, etc. I think you will also want another plane to prepare your wood for a finish, so that you can cut back, or even eliminate all the sanding. The smooth plane fulfills this function normally. The Veritas bevel up planes are reportedly excellent (I say reportedly because I don't own one, I just want one). Lee Valley sells a low angle smoother with a 2" wide blade, and a bevel up smoother with a 2 1/4" blade. The wider blade helps the plane work with the bevel up jointer and jack. The You could even go with the bevel up jack as an all around utility plane if you intend to buy only a few. Nobody starts down this slope, however, and buys only a few.:D

[David Keller NC]

"I have a $15 buck brothers bench plane that I believe is the basis for my previous plane-disdain; I simply cannot get it set up and hold that set up for more than a few strokes. More trouble than it's worth. Consistent with most of my other tool purchases, I'm planning to buy the best I can in the hopes it might help cover up my lack of skill."

Welcome to the knuckle-dragging side of woodwork. :D

A good quality plane will not make up for lack of hand-planing skill, but it will make up for lack of plane-tuning skill. That's a learned process, and isn't simple the first time around, even with excellent instruction from SMC.

You're on the right track - the first plane purchase should be either a block plane or a smoother, you're choice, because they're both necessary. The smoothing plane will solve the problem of sander-induced non-flat panels, rounded edges, and the like. The block plane will greatly assist you in cleaning up ever-so-slightly out of whack joinery. You'll wind up with both, trust me, and you might was well save on some shipping and buy both at once.

For the budget conscious, Veritas can't be beat. For traditional looks and method of operation, Lie-Nielsen can't be beat. Both make excellent, good-to-go out of the box planes. You'll be well advised to swallow the cost and get a medium-sized, 5" long low-angle block plane for your first one, preferably with an adjustable mouth. A low-angle is really a boon when trimming 90 degree corners made by rabbets, dovetails, etc..., and can also be used on face grain. While a standard angle can also be used on end grain, it takes a good deal more effort to push, and often results in frustrating chatter.

For a smoothing plane, your best bet at first is to get one based on the smaller Stanley models (at least from the standpoint of length, blade width, and overall plane weight). Many choose bevel-up planes because they're cheaper and with additional blades, more versatile when working highly figured wood. You do give up one thing, however, that some of us like and don't use bevel-up planes because of - a traditional Stanley design allows you to advance the blade during the planing stroke, which gives you immediate feedback as to the projection of the iron and shaving thickness. If you're going with this direction, I'd recommend one the size of a Stanley #3 or #4. I'd avoid the larger smoothers with wider blades, at least at first. The reason is that they require considerably more effort to push, and that can be frustrating for a newbie.

[Ben Davis]

My vote is for a smoother / bench plane. I agree that a #4 is an easy plane to find used, a plane that can be had new for a reasonable price, and one that should get a lot of regular use.

[John Keeton]

I agree on the low angle adjustable mouth block, but let me add this thought. Veritas has an "Apron Plane" that is a sweet little pocket plane that I use all the time. I also own a LN low angle, adj. mouth, and it is a great plane, but honestly I pick up the Apron plane 90% of the time to do the little "corrections" which you mention. At $85, it is a bargain!

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=46791&cat=1,41182,48942

From there, it is a gentle slide down the remainder of the slope!!

[John Dykes]

Dave -

First of all let me say, I've been there... And let me also admit, I didn't start off with a Buck Brothers, but rather a Lie-Nielsen #4. :eek: So limited I am in inherit skill, even the top of the line was of no use to me.... Hopefully, I've stumbled in the right direction a bit further since then.

There are a few types of different people who get started off in planes: collectors of old planes, collectors of new planes, people who want to learn in depth, and folks who just want a means to an end, etc...

In many cases, my first recommendation are the old Stanley planes. It is my opinion that working through the fettling and tuning process of a plane is important to a thorough understanding of planecraft. I gather from your post, you aren't terribly interested in the karma of old planes, and just want a tool to accomplish various tasks.

My guess is that many (most, all?!) would recommend a block plane to you in this case. Eh, I'm one of the few who rarely uses a block plane. Perhaps it's that I've got several planes set up for various tasks, or maybe I've just not learned enough (most likely!) to know its best use. In what I do, a block plane's size is just too limiting.

Again, while I'd like to push you to Stanley - I think you should strongly consider the Lee Valley Low Angle Jack (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49708&cat=1,41182,41186) . It buys you a few things -

#1 Size - Large enough to work as a jointer (remove those machine marks). Small enough to work as large smoother (excels at this!). A block plane is not really suited to either of these tasks.

#2 Versatility - Stanley planes are bevel down and fixed at 45 degrees (generally speaking).The bed on this plane is at a very low angle, and the blade is used "bevel up." What this means is that you can change the blade bevel to perform various tasks. Use a low angle blade for trimming or shooting end grain, a high angle blade for taming the gnarliest of grain during smoothing, and a standard angle for everything in between.

#3 Ease of use - Lee Valley has designed a few features that make the plane very easy to use for those who aren't big into plane tuning (adjustable mouth, blade that's easy to center\adjust).

#4 Quality - Good stuff.

So buy the LA Jack or Smoother - and a few blades.

Now for the rest of the story. Completely ignore everything I just wrote...


cover up my lack of skill

Hand tools require skill to use - skill, finesse, touch, practice, patience - whatever you want to call it. Point being, there is some amount of personal investment required to use these tools effectively. This is where I fell down with my first plane.

Does it take a great deal of skill to push a piece of metal across wood? In the most basic of terms, no - but more than you might initially think. Splitting out the end grain, planing a board convex, reading grain, tear-out, hand pressure, or blade tracks - should all be constantly considered. Hurdles in the hand tool world can't be overcome by machine clearances and impressive horsepower.

Most importantly, you must make a commitment to learning how to sharpen. There are many methods, but find one that you believe in and can be successful at. The best plane becomes useless after a very short period of usage. I commend David Charlesworth's DVDs to you...

Good luck - there's nothing like it...

- jbd in Denver

[John Keeton]

Dave, after John Dykes post, I just had to reply.

See, I was trying to help you gently into this hand plane world with the Apron Plane. John, on the other hand, has given you the best option should you be so inclined.

In full disclosure, this is how John works. He comes to your shop, brings his favorite LV toys (including the plane to which he has referred), tempts you with them, and leaves. The next day, you quickly get online and order the BU LA jack (with extra blade) to which he makes reference!! That is his modus operandi! He is so sly!!!

On a serious note - it is the finest plane I have, although I have few compared to John and others.

But, I will still go back to the original stated purpose "correcting sloppy assembly, like when the pocket screw slips a little and there's a tiny overhang that needs cleaned up. Maybe champhoring (sp?) an edge every once in a while."

For that, I like the Apron plane, but it is really not "a simple plane to build skill with" as it has limited function in my opinion. But, it is a sweet little tool!!

[Jim Koepke]

All the above is as good if not better than my advise toward a new plane purchase.

My curiosity is piqued about the Buck plane. Was it bought used or new?

If it is a newer one, then it may suffer from the collective race to the bottom of trying to produce a cheaper tool.

If it is an older one, it may just need adjustments and fettling.

Fettling is a word you will hear a lot around neanders with old tools.

It can not be emphasized enough how important it is to learn the art of sharpening.

One word of advise though, keep quiet about your sharpening abilities around the neighbors or they will want you to sharpen everything they own.

jim

[John Dykes]

John -

It's only a condemnation of my lack of craftsmanship. While others may have mistakes that can be corrected with gentle stroking of a block plane, my joinery corrections require aggressive application of a scrub and lots of putty!

Waiting for information about your pursuit of the perfect London Dovetail....

[Dave Novak]

You guys are great! Not identical responses/avdice, but certainly consistent. I'm guessing it would be a good idea to take a class at woodcraft or maybe even join a woodworkers club to get some hands-on tutoring. It certainly would shorten the learning curve. I knew when I was typing my origonal post that I'd follow it up shortly after receiving my first plane with a post titled "sharpening plane blades for newbies". Thanks!

[Richard Niemiec]

First, I must say that I own several LN and LV planes, generally the more exotic models that collectors of the vintage Stanley planes have priced out of the ballpark. That being said, there are two prevailing theories out there as to initial plane buying. The first is to buy a new high quality plane at retail so you will know how a plane should work, then consider vintage stanleys. The second is to get your "feet wet" with some lower cost used Stanleys, which can be made to function quite well (Hock blade replacement, etc., but this too is subject to debate) and then add more specialized planes as you go at "retail" from LN/LV. Since you are talking about starting with a block plane and a #4, there are plentyl of very servicable used Stanleys out there, and frankly, vintage Stanley block planes (heck, even new "contractor grade" Stanley block planes, one of my user low angle blocks is a newer Stanley) can be just as functional as a LV or LN (and I own both as well). A nice Stanley 9 1/2 standard angle block plane can be had for relatively little, see Walt who is a member here, or watch the classifieds here or on WoodNet or other forums; they come up pretty regularly in the $35 to $45 range, and you generally get a full description from someone who knows and has used the plane.

A final note, IMHO you can't go wrong with any of the LV or LN products if that's what you end up doing, so if you can afford it, go for it. Just giving you the options.

RN

[Dave Novak]

My curiosity is piqued about the Buck plane. Was it bought used or new?



I bought it new about 6 years ago from Lowes. The entirety of the the instructions that came with it would fit on a business card, and even though there's only a couple of things to adjust in the setup process, I've never been able to get it set up correctly or tight enough to hold the set up.

I printed the Veritas block plane instructions off of their website, and they're 6 pages long. That along should make a difference.

[Danny Thompson]

This is easy. In this order:

1. A Veritas Low Angle Jack. Capable of a LOT of different things, if you buy an extra blade.
2. A Lie Nielsen 102 Low Angle Block Plane. Handy, quick, and sweet.
3. A Lie Nielsen Low Angle Adjustable Mouth Block Plane. A bigger block plane that doubles as a smoother.

IMHO.

[John Keeton]

Dave, excuse me for a slight hijack interruption! John, if the weather warms sufficiently, this next week will be my first attempt at handcut DTs. I have all tools in hand (so to speak), and have studied it to death. I am ready!!

Dave, back to you. John and Jim are right regarding sharpening. The difference between a very sharp plane, and a slightly dull plane is night and day! And, in use, you will know immediately when you cross that line.

[Eric Brown]

The new premium line block plane from Lee Valley is the best option for a beginner. Yes, it is expensive. Yes, it is, in my opinion, the best. Even better than the L-N. While you cannot tell any difference between the cutting of any similar planes that are properly set up, the difference is in the process of making the adjustments.
Stanleys need to be tuned. Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley are both ready to use. The premium is the easiest to adjust.

Many plane owners will set up two similar planes differently so that they can use one for coarse and another one for fine cutting. The premium makes the adjusting process so easy it begs you to adjust, and the stop on the mouth prevents damage to the blade if clearing shavings. I would recommend this plane, with an extra blade sharpened at a higher angle over all others (if you can afford it). Also consider it won't rust (except the blade).

Later you will need a longer plane. I recommend either the L-N or L-V bevel-up types, again with an extra blade sharpened at a higher angle.

Eric

[James G. Jones]

Dave,

I belong in the treasure the old tools camp. Many of my tools were handed down to me, and many (most) were not top of the line tools in their day. With that being said, however, I know from first hand experience that it can be frustrating to learn it all at once - fettling, sharpening, reading grain, technique, and troubleshooting what part you are doing wrong. I think that the advice given here as to selection of a new LN or Veritas is great. It will give you a benchmark for what a good plane should be. Also, the advise to learn to sharpen cannot be over emphasized. You also have a great idea in the classes or club participation. A couple of things I would suggest also are: (1) Practice - A LOT. Take scraps, put them in the vise, and go to it. That more than anything will teach you the feeling, the technique, and even the sound a properly fettled plane makes. It will dull your irons, which will in turn lead to more practice - sharpening. And (2) once you get a feel for it, and think you know exactly how a premium plane should behave, buy an old Stanley for $10 - $15, and make it behave that way. In the process, if you are like me, you will learn so much about how the design of these tools, new and old, can be persuaded to provide such satisfying results. To me, using a tool that I bought in a junked up state, then tuned and fettled it into a functional user just adds to the great feeling I get when I finish a project.

BTW - Be careful, Its called the slippery slope for a reason.:D

James

[Jim Koepke]

My agreement is with James on this, but only if you are patient.

Some of my planes were bought on eBay because they looked like junk with some good parts. My #5 came to about $17 including the shipping. It was bought for the handles which were in good shape. If you buy just the handles off the plane, they will cost more. When it arrived, it was in much better shape than the blurry pictures indicated. It is now one of my go to planes. The plane I wanted to replace the handles on was sold. I didn't need four #5s.

It did take me a while to learn the skill of sharpening, but it is worth it. The ability to clean up an old rusty piece of iron and adjust the metal with a file and set up the parts to make thin shavings puts a smile on my face. This also was something that required time, patience and a willingness to move slow and not try to get there all in one night.

Learning to read the grain of the wood to avoid tear out is not real difficult, but some woods are easier than others.

I would bet that others will sometimes mount a hunk of wood just to take a few shavings now and then. Of course, we are just checking the blade and set up.

Everyone has their favorites, mine are the type 9 through 11 Stanley planes. There are a couple of type 6s in my accumulation also. Some like older, some like newer. They are all pretty good.

Then, there is the well reasoned argument for buying the newer LV or LN planes. They are very well made planes and offer features not found in the older Stanley line. Of course, they cost more. Being retired, I have more time than money, so my way is to buy the low priced and tune it to work like the high priced.

Just be careful, it is hard for me not to pick up a plane at a yard sale or antique shop to check it out. It is harder to put it back down if the price is reasonable. Currently, there are probably too many planes in my shop, but facts never get in the way of plane lust.

On the slope and picking up speed,

jim

[James G. Jones]

On the slope and picking up speed,

jim

That has got to be the best tag line ever.

James

[John Sanford]

There are a number of different ways of going about selecting your first planes. I'm going to throw something a bit different into the mix.

Consider the most difficult "tweak" that you have encountered. By this, I mean a situation where you have to tweak a cut made by a power tool. Now, think about how you can tweak it, especially if you've moved on from the setup that made the original cut....

For me, tweaking a dado is, or at least was, a nightmare. That is, until I got a rabbet plane, or more accurately, a side rabbet plane. No trying to get the saw fence set "just so" AND the blade right just right. No risking screwing up a near finished piece just to widen the dado a smidge.

A side rabbet plane is a pretty specialized tweaker, but like all the other specialized handplanes, the first time you use one, you'll have an epiphany. The true power of handplanes will become crystal clear. The right plane, at the right time, can save you so much time and frustration compared to a power tool, that it's mindboggling.

With all that said, the most versatile 'general tweaker' is a block plane. I'll echo what other folks have said, go with a low angle adjustable mouth block. If cost isn't a major issue, jump in whole hawg and get the new Veritas NX60. Otherwise, the DX60, a Veritas LA adjustable mouth, or a Lie-Nielsen LA adjustable mouth, which in the interests of disclosure, is my only block plane.

Planes come in a wide variety of sizes, shapes, styles, and even materials. Often, people group them by origin, or size, or style, and of course by materials. Methinks such grouping can be, and usually is, misleading. Planes are best grouped by function.

[David Keller NC]

"I'm guessing it would be a good idea to take a class at woodcraft or maybe even join a woodworkers club to get some hands-on tutoring."

This is, by the way, the best possible advice one of us could've given you (but neglected to). Written insturctions, whether found in a book or in a tool's box, can be followed and will eventually get you there, but watching someone that knows what they're doing will give you all of that information and more, and in about 30 seconds. Sharpening, in particular, is a skill that's best learned by looking over someone's shoulder while he/she is doing it. There are tons of books (the Taunton one written by Tom Lie-Nielsen's a keeper) out there, but again, it's a heck of a lot easier to learn by emulating someone that's already good at it.

One other thought - regarding whether to buy a new, "high-end" plane or a flea market bargain, keep in mind that quite a few of us on this forum and others are -ahem- excessively "frugal", and that tends to color responses. The reason I enclosed "high-end" in quotations is that the planes from Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley aren't high-end, nor even expensive.

They only look that way in comparison to made-by-slave-labor offerings in the big-box stores, and you've already found out why they're so cheap. Pre-1950's Stanley planes are cheaper than LV or LN, of course, but that's only because they were necessary tools in pre portable planer days, and there's so many of them out there and so few finish carpenters these days even know how to use them that the price has been pushed far below manufacturing cost. In their day, Stanley planes were at least as expensive as, and in some cases considerably more expensive than, Lie-Nielsons or Lee Valley's offerings.

This is, by the way, a good reason not to buy on price, at least in this range. If you like the looks of a Lie-Nielsen, buy one of those, regardless of whether the Lee Valley equivalent is a little cheaper. The reverse is also true - if you like the looks of the Lee Valley new block plane, buy it rather than the Lie-Nielsen. The simple reason is that you're likely to have these tools for the rest of your working life, and the money differential is extremely small, and it'd be a mistake to forever wish you'd ponied up a few more dollars for the tool you really wanted. And it's cheaper to do this than it is to sell what you've just bought and then go buy the one you really wanted.

As a reference point, remember that neither Lee Valley nor Lie-Nielsen make "high-end" planes. This is the purview of small, independent makers in this day and age. Bridge City, Ron Brese and Philip Marcou are on the lower end of this class, with planes going for roughly $600-$1400. The mid-range is someone like Konrad Sauer, who makes and sells superb infill planes that go for between $2000 - $4000, and ultra-high end is someone like Karl Holtey, whose infill planes are celebrated for their perfectionism, and the entry price is well north of $6000.

The only reason Lee Valley and Lie-Nielsen look expensive is the extraordinary drop in prices of tools manufactured in large volume during the 20th century (such as workshop machines), and the existence of extraoridnary numbers of used Stanelys and other brands from before the 1940's. Were these to not exist, Lie-Nielsens and Lee Valleys would be considered to be extraordinarily cheap (which they actually are, given the quality that goes into them).

[mike johnston]

Dave, Mr Keller beat me to it. A couple weeks ago I was going through exactly the same pains. As of now I am the proud owner of 4 vintage planes,1 worksharp 3000, 5 nice thick pieces of custom cut, & edge polished glass, 1 veritas honing jig, & serveral other small dodads & gadgets. All neatly stowed away awaiting the arival of the plane fairy. All the books, DVDs, and informed post here, won't take the place of some hands on mentoring, by a plane guru. (Unfortunatly I live In the middle of nowhere and the plane fairy Don't Go Here.)

Good Luck, (and seek out Yoda)
Mike

[Rick Erickson]

This is a great thread. Everyone has added good advice. I will throw in that I would recommend watching Rob Cosman's video(s) before buying any plane. He has one on sharpening and planing. It is great for a beginner wanting to know where to start. He is a big Lie-Nielsen guy and recommends their stuff (which is a great recommendation) but Veritas planes are top notch too. I own both and have no qualms with either. I personally like the LN's but that is strictly on looks. The Veritas perform very admirably.

[Patty Hann]

Ok...
1) I know this is necroposting but this is the only thread I could find that deals with newbie plane users (like moi)

2) I have been learning woodworking in a class for the last few years (well, not the last two years :rolleyes:) but was going along pretty well prior to that.

3) Class is mostly power tools but I read enough on this forum and other WW forums to see the usefulness of learning to use a plane

4) Received a Veritas Low angle block plane for Christmas

5) Despite a call to Veritas I cannot get the plane set up correctly even for initial use, especially concerning the little set screws on the side.
(And depending who you talk to the Veritas those folks are not very patient with newbs, because we weren't born knowing everything the Veritas guy has obviously know since before the dawn of man)

6) I did join SMC a few years ago when it was free, but have also been a paid subscriber off and on (currently on a recurring monthly payment subscription)

7) I would like some help setting up the plane

8 ) please... and thanks (in advance)

I cannot get the blade to stay stationary side-to-side without getting the set screws so tight that it prevents moving the blade forward or retracting it.
It's like an all or nothing situation. And from what the little (Yellow) paper says that Veritas sends you, once the side to side motion is eliminated, you should never have to mess with those set screws again.
Well, it isn't happening that way for me.

[Scott Winners]

Patty, where are you located, about? A thing that might take 45 posts and two weeks over the interwebs might, possibly, be solved in 3.2 seconds in the correct hands face to face.

[Patty Hann]

Hi Scott... oh, tell me about it....hands on demo with someone who knows is worth a thousand posts/emails.
I am one on those people who learns (and learns pretty well, if not better) by copying what others do.
So...I'm in the Phoenix metro area (a long way from AK, I'm afraid), east side
(PS... I envy you having the Aurora ...someday I intend to get up there and see it myself)

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Dave, I’m self taught and relatively new to this.
do you have a bench set up for work holding? It can be a fairly frustrating experience if you don’t.
there is definitely a learning curve to hand planing but if you take the time to practice, and troubleshoot you can get some decent results. The creek is an excellent resource. So is YouTube.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Patty, along with Scott, my first question was going to be about your location. Hopefully someone local to you will see your post and offer to help.

If that doesn't occur you may want to create a new post.

The most common errors made with block planes is putting the blade in with the bevel down instead of up.

Funny that a Stanley #4 purchased a few days ago had the blade installed with the bevel up. That is also a common error.

Your plane doesn't need the screws adjusted to get it working. The cap over the blade (lever or leverage cap) does need to be tightened, not cranked down but tight enough to secure the blade.

Here is an old post on "getting started with hand planes" > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148076 <

Try retracting the blade with the cap barely tightened, this should be back to just enough to not cut. Then with the cap still not fully tight advance the blade slowly while pushing the plane over a piece of scrap. This can be a bit awkward. When the plane first starts to take a shaving stop advancing the blade.

Some folks like to use a small piece of wood held in one hand to run over the sole of the plane to judge blade engagement.

Check the shaving from both sides of the blade to make sure they are even.

The blades on Veritas planes have in my experience arrive plenty sharp off the shelf. Once the plane is cutting then set the screws. Turn one in until it just touches the blade then back off 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Then adjust the other the same way.

Beyond this, it may be necessary for you to include images if you can for additional help.

jtk

[Patty Hann]

Thank you Jim... I will give it a shot. I think I can get it right because of your step-by-step instructions.
Will let you know.
Oh, and thanks for the link...will look at that too. :)

[Jim Koepke]

Thank you Jim... I will give it a shot. I think I can get it right because of your step-by-step instructions.
Will let you know.
Oh, and thanks for the link...will look at that too. :)

Glad to help, let us know how it goes.

I also sent you a Private Message.

jtk

[Patty Hann]

Worked :)...thanks..Jim (Also sent you a PM...did you get it?)

[Jim Koepke]

Worked :)...thanks..Jim (Also sent you a PM...did you get it?)

Glad to be of help.

Yep, both of them.

jtk

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

oops, missed the dates on the posting